Why Would Any New Player Continue Past Tier 5?

[Guest]

You're playing the game at tiers 3 and 4 and you think, "Hey this is kinda fun"...then you hit tier 5 with 3 subs per side. You've never seen subs before, don't know how to play against them, die repeatedly and suddenly the game is no longer fun. Unless you're a masochist I see no reason to stay with the game at that point. Every now and then I venture up from my low tier haven to play higher tiers. Mid tiers are terrible right now, the subs have sucked so much fun from what was once a very fun game. Not that they are OP but they are annoying as hell. I don't have time to play an annoying game.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Kalishnikat

[BOBTHEBALL]

Some people like the way ships get deadlier and more powerful as the tiers increase. I can say from personal experience nothing beats tier 10 or 11. The power those ships have are amazing, especially when you get massively rewarded from making a good play. Seeing the 200k-300k damage battles will always be great, and easier to achieve at higher tier.

[Admiral_Karasu]

Well, there's the operations. You just have to face the perils of Tier 5 to reach that stage. Still, it's feasible to grind tier 5 in coop.

[Type_93]

7 hours ago, Kalishnikat said:

You're playing the game at tiers 3 and 4 and you think, "Hey this is kinda fun"...then you hit tier 5 with 3 subs per side. You've never seen subs before, don't know how to play against them, die repeatedly and suddenly the game is no longer fun. Unless you're a masochist I see no reason to stay with the game at that point. Every now and then I venture up from my low tier haven to play higher tiers. Mid tiers are terrible right now, the subs have sucked so much fun from what was once a very fun game. Not that they are OP but they are annoying as hell. I don't have time to play an annoying game.

It’s about learning. You learned how to play from the start. The mark of a good player is how they learn to deal with different threats as they progress up the tiers. This is a rant about your progress thru the tiers, not all new players. A lot of those new players may see subs as a great new way to have fun! If you can’t play against subs and want to stay in low tiers, by all means you do you, but you are missing out on some great fun at higher tiers. 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

8 hours ago, Kalishnikat said:

You've never seen subs before, don't know how to play against them,

You are aware that subs are in the game, so you go do some research on YouTube to learn how to fight them. 

The victim mentality that pervades your post is not a healthy one. You need to break out of it. 

I remember getting into Tier 5 and everything suddenly becoming much deadlier. That was a steep and nasty learning curve, made all the nastier by the ship in question being the Emerald. So, fragile as hell and no opportunity at all to do damage over time at anything past 7km. But I didn't quit, nor even think of quitting.

New players continue past Tier 5 because they can face a challenge and learn how to improve. 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

7 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

Some people like the way ships get deadlier and more powerful as the tiers increase. I can say from personal experience nothing beats tier 10 or 11. The power those ships have are amazing, especially when you get massively rewarded from making a good play. Seeing the 200k-300k damage battles will always be great, and easier to achieve at higher tier.

Ah, but the gameplay becomes more restricted and boring at high tier. Nothing beats the sheer boredom of placing your battleship / cruiser hull down and waiting for the enemy team to make a mistake...no sailing, just park your tank and use it as a howitzer.

Or sailing back and forth in your DD spotting for your team while not firing your guns, hoping that RNG blesses your hull down ships over their hull down ships. Oh, you get to shoot some torpedoes every 2 minutes. So fun.

I get that it's different...but I got into the game to sail ships...not play WoT on water.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

12 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

You are aware that subs are in the game, so you go do some research on YouTube to learn how to fight them. 

The victim mentality that pervades your post is not a healthy one. You need to break out of it. 

I remember getting into Tier 5 and everything suddenly becoming much deadlier. That was a steep and nasty learning curve, made all the nastier by the ship in question being the Emerald. So, fragile as hell and no opportunity at all to do damage over time at anything past 7km. But I didn't quit, nor even think of quitting.

New players continue past Tier 5 because they can face a challenge and learn how to improve. 

Yeah, this is a key point. It's all about attitude.

I joined to play RTS US AS CV. That meant sucking it up while I learned the interface and how to play RTS CV. That meant playing through the frustration of facing Saipain in my Bogue...etc.

The challenge aspect is a key motivator for some.

[palestreamer]

There are many fun ships T5-T10, and the reward payouts are much higher.

You learn to deal with subs, and hey, they are even fun to play once in a while.

Brawls T7 and T9 are great, no subs, no CVs, just straight up gunfights with really powerful ships.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

40 minutes ago, palestreamer said:

and the reward payouts are much higher

This is less important than most think, I find.

[Wolfswetpaws]

8 hours ago, Kalishnikat said:

You're playing the game at tiers 3 and 4 and you think, "Hey this is kinda fun"...then you hit tier 5 with 3 subs per side. You've never seen subs before, don't know how to play against them, die repeatedly and suddenly the game is no longer fun. Unless you're a masochist I see no reason to stay with the game at that point. Every now and then I venture up from my low tier haven to play higher tiers. Mid tiers are terrible right now, the subs have sucked so much fun from what was once a very fun game. Not that they are OP but they are annoying as hell. I don't have time to play an annoying game.

I have seen Submarines, before.  I played Submarine simulation games while "growing up".
And, within World of Warships, I've played Submarines since they were released as Halloween event ships and throughout the "testing" process.

As one progresses up the ladder of tiers (tears?  for some?), the ships become more "lethal" and less forgiving of mistakes.
The "mental game" increases in importance, if one is to succeed.  (As @BOBTHEBALL pointed-out, in their own way.)

I asked for Submarines, back in 2018 or 2019 when I was responding to a survey from World of Warships.
I said the game was "boring" without the added complexity of operating & thinking in three dimensions that Submarines and Aircraft Carriers provide.

The whining, wailing and gnashing-of-teeth by some people expressing their lamentations about Submarines & CV's is what is annoying, in my opinion.  🙂 
The world has bigger problems.
Dealing with ship types that one might be unfamiliar with merely requires some research and an attitude adjustment.  🙂 

A number of forum posts (old forum and this forum) have been created to share "how to ..." wisdom regarding playing and playing against Submarines.
While @Ahskance and @ArIskandir have posted videos and topics, I and other people have our names sprinkled in amongst the relevant forum topics.

All of that being said, it is truly your decision whether or not to continue to play World of Warships.
Life is short. 
Do what makes you happy.  🙂 

[Asym]

1 hour ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

You are aware that subs are in the game, so you go do some research on YouTube to learn how to fight them. 

The victim mentality that pervades your post is not a healthy one. You need to break out of it. 

I remember getting into Tier 5 and everything suddenly becoming much deadlier. That was a steep and nasty learning curve, made all the nastier by the ship in question being the Emerald. So, fragile as hell and no opportunity at all to do damage over time at anything past 7km. But I didn't quit, nor even think of quitting.

New players continue past Tier 5 because they can face a challenge and learn how to improve. 

I don't disagree with "learning" and the concept of individual responsibility....  I didn't study anything in 2017 or 2018.  And yet, here I am.  I almost did quit the game in 2018 when I was playing full time trying to complete the IJN lines and ran into the Amagi....  I could not, for the life of me, get that ship to work well enough in Randoms and almost uninstalled.  It was so bad, I went to COOP and never left............  

What is an issue is that the learning curve is soooooooo steep, many players do leave.......and, that isn't a good thing in a game.

Honestly, this game creates "dissonance" in me because I am a veteran....  I know how weapons and tactics are supposed to work ( I played Harpoon with my Navy friends and have a lot of Annapolis grads and even family that are Navy so.....)  For me, it was extremely hard to "do things" that simply would never be done in reality.... 

To your point:  I can not unlearn the reality of war; of naval weapons that should....[add a thought]; or, of the concepts of Naval tactics.....  That is my cross to bear and the cross of my friends that play this game and are ex-military.   It's why so many of them left the game in 2018......  Just a thought since we are "very, very well educated" and trained and have the real world military experiences to "know better" which,  equals a form of "dissonance"...... 

[Asym]

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I get that it's different...but I got into the game to sail ships...not play WoT on water.

That's my experience as well.  Try being a retired Armor officer and within the first day of actually playing this game, you realize the entire game is in fact:  World of Tanks on water  !   And, since I am a professionally trained Tanker and taught at the Armor School back in the day, I know for a fact I'd never be able to play World of Tanks and upon coming here, I found it incredibly difficult to play this game......  

And, here we are still struggling with the "dissonance" knowing how real weapons/tactics of Tanks works sailing a ship from cover to cover and sniping from defilade map exploits.....and then, calling that a naval battle.....  [face slap emoji]  All we need to have now is some real "artillery" or some LRM's from MWO and I'd be "home...." 

You, this is me, Call for for fire, over....

[Wolfswetpaws]

6 minutes ago, Asym said:

1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I get that it's different...but I got into the game to sail ships...not play WoT on water.

That's my experience as well.  Try being a retired Armor officer and within the first day of actually playing this game, you realize the entire game is in fact:  World of Tanks on water  ! 

Based upon my life experiences, I lean towards "paintball" as a similar game.

[Type_93]

13 minutes ago, Asym said:

I don't disagree with "learning" and the concept of individual responsibility....  I didn't study anything in 2017 or 2018.  And yet, here I am.  I almost did quit the game in 2018 when I was playing full time trying to complete the IJN lines and ran into the Amagi....  I could not, for the life of me, get that ship to work well enough in Randoms and almost uninstalled.  It was so bad, I went to COOP and never left............  

What is an issue is that the learning curve is soooooooo steep, many players do leave.......and, that isn't a good thing in a game.

Honestly, this game creates "dissonance" in me because I am a veteran....  I know how weapons and tactics are supposed to work ( I played Harpoon with my Navy friends and have a lot of Annapolis grads and even family that are Navy so.....)  For me, it was extremely hard to "do things" that simply would never be done in reality.... 

To your point:  I can not unlearn the reality of war; of naval weapons that should....[add a thought]; or, of the concepts of Naval tactics.....  That is my cross to bear and the cross of my friends that play this game and are ex-military.   It's why so many of them left the game in 2018......  Just a thought since we are "very, very well educated" and trained and have the real world military experiences to "know better" which,  equals a form of "dissonance"...... 

you make some good points. I think a lot of players pick up WOWs thinking it’s a great naval sim. But it’s not a sim at all. I can understand the frustration of the game being wildly inaccurate when it come to reality. Players have to make the choice to continue playing and learning how to play pew pew shooty boats knowing that nothing in the game correlates to other games like Harpoon. 
 

I don’t know if many people here remember back in the late 90’s when AOL hosted Harpoon online. That was a fantastic game! It was much more of a sim. Now if there was a game like that out now, I’d waste hours of my life there instead of here. 

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

10 hours ago, Kalishnikat said:

You're playing the game at tiers 3 and 4 and you think, "Hey this is kinda fun"...then you hit tier 5 with 3 subs per side. You've never seen subs before, don't know how to play against them, die repeatedly and suddenly the game is no longer fun. Unless you're a masochist I see no reason to stay with the game at that point. Every now and then I venture up from my low tier haven to play higher tiers. Mid tiers are terrible right now, the subs have sucked so much fun from what was once a very fun game. Not that they are OP but they are annoying as hell. I don't have time to play an annoying game.

Why Would Any New Player play this game at all? is a better question. Sure Low tiers feels almost like bathtub events with small duckies popping around shooting at each other. Then you hit mid tiers where you will start to face 2 CVs on each side in ships with no AA and then subs (which are tested and balanced with WGs stamp of approval ... so no problems there ... its a "skill issue" .....)

Then you try and progress which is pretty much PaytoWin these days since its harder and harder to get a good economy and all the other players you face will play OP/unbalanced Premiums or classes like subs and CVs. So basically you invest time or god forgive you money into a game that will most likely only give you grief. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

2 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Ah, but the gameplay becomes more restricted and boring at high tier.

 

It does, where the low tiers feel exploratory, the high tiers become cookie cutter battles. Except.. on the Ocean.

[Wolfswetpaws]

13 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Why Would Any New Player play this game at all? is a better question. Sure Low tiers feels almost like bathtub events with small duckies popping around shooting at each other. Then you hit mid tiers where you will start to face 2 CVs on each side in ships with no AA and then subs (which are tested and balanced with WGs stamp of approval ... so no problems there ... its a "skill issue" .....)

Then you try and progress which is pretty much PaytoWin these days since its harder and harder to get a good economy and all the other players you face will play OP/unbalanced Premiums or classes like subs and CVs. So basically you invest time or god forgive you money into a game that will most likely only give you grief. 

It takes years to train a person to become the Captain of a Naval Warship, in real life.
Yet people expect to be able to pick-up this game within minutes?  🙂 

Yes, this game starts out pretty simple and progresses to become more interesting.
And, yes, in my opinion, real-life military principles can be adapted and applied.  ("Crossing-the-T" becomes "focused fire", for example.)
But this is also a game wherein "consumables" can be a variation of "power-ups" or "healing potions" or "magic mushrooms" found in other games.  🙂 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

34 minutes ago, Asym said:

Honestly, this game creates "dissonance" in me because I am a veteran....  I know how weapons and tactics are supposed to work ( I played Harpoon with my Navy friends and have a lot of Annapolis grads and even family that are Navy so.....) 

I played Harpoon too. If the British Seaslug SAM system worked IRL anywhere near as well as it did in that game, the Argentine air force would not have landed a single bomb or missile hit in 1982. 

38 minutes ago, Asym said:

I could not, for the life of me, get that ship to work well enough in Randoms and almost uninstalled.  It was so bad, I went to COOP and never left...

Funny you should say that. I finished the Amagi just before WOWS brought out the two Warhammer 40K clones. Once I had the B gunfire control system installed, I loved that ship so much I bought one of the WH clones just to have a premium version. The frustrating part of the Amagi as it then was is that you had to research the B hull before you could research the GFCS module, something WG has corrected since, in multiple ships across multiple nations (all progression of modules is now linear within their own category). 

I consider it to be one of the game's strengths that two people can have completely differing opinions of the exact same ship at the same point in time. 

 Most of the people coming to this game will play it as the semi-arcade shooter that it is. The more you know about naval combat and the way warships are built, fight and take damage (and I did a LOT of reading around all of that before this game even existed), the sooner you have to accept that this is not a sim and can never become one. (e.g. To paraphrase naval architect and author D.K. Brown, even in the 21st Century, accurately modelling flooding stability is difficult - and he was talking about mainframes with dedicated design software.)

 

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

7 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

It takes years to train a person to become the Captain of a Naval Warship, in real life.
Yet people expect to be able to pick-up this game within minutes?  🙂 

Yes, this game starts out pretty simple and progresses to become more interesting.
And, yes, in my opinion, real-life military principles can be adapted and applied.  ("Crossing-the-T" becomes "focused fire", for example.)
But this is also a game wherein "consumables" can be a variation of "power-ups" or "healing potions" or "magic mushrooms" found in other games.  🙂 

I wouldn't call facing double CVs in a ship with no AA or multiple subs in a ship with ship based ASW as "Interesting".

And im a military person myself with the rank of Sgt. and im also a quite enthusiastic chess player and its easy to make the assumption that this game has anything to do with chess (considering the map and squares) or military tactics/"thinking mans action game" but nothing of this applies to this game thanks to WGs design with BS mechanic's, CVs that can spot any kind of pinching maneuvers or surprise attacks, BS consumables like Radars and hydros that see thru islands even tho capping DDs cant shoot or torp thu same islands to defend themselves.

I just re-watched "Band of brothers" probably for the 88:th time and most know that Lt. Winters assault on the german artillery in the second episode is now days tought as Text book example of a perfect assault on a fixed position. Now put Winters trying to do the same EXEMPLARY tactics in WOW: "Sorry Winter you and your company is dead!", "Why, we planned this perfect assault?!", "Yeah, but those invisible planes from the CV and also a radar, cought all you guys out so they shot you" 

This game has Nothing to do with chess, real life military tactics or thinking. WG kinda assured themselves about that.

[Wolfswetpaws]

2 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I wouldn't call facing double CVs in a ship with no AA or multiple subs in a ship with ship based ASW as "Interesting".

And im a military person myself with the rank of Sgt. and im also a quite enthusiastic chess player and its easy to make the assumption that this game has anything to do with chess (considering the map and squares) or military tactics/"thinking mans action game" but nothing of this applies to this game thanks to WGs design with BS mechanic's, CVs that can spot any kind of pinching maneuvers or surprise attacks, BS consumables like Radars and hydros that see thru islands even tho capping DDs cant shoot or torp thu same islands to defend themselves.

I just re-watched "Band of brothers" probably for the 88:th time and most know that Lt. Winters assault on the german artillery in the second episode is now days tought as Text book example of a perfect assault on a fixed position. Now put Winters trying to do the same EXEMPLARY tactics in WOW: "Sorry Winter you and your company is dead!", "Why, we planned this perfect assault?!", "Yeah, but those invisible planes from the CV and also a radar, cought all you guys out so they shot you" 

This game has Nothing to do with chess, real life military tactics or thinking. WG kinda assured themselves about that.

I politely disagree.  🙂

For me, playing RTS CV's was like a fast-paced game of Chess with all the pieces being able to move simultaneously.

The "consumables" being more like arcade-game power-ups.  Is it "real life"?  Nope.
But, it is "in-game" and it is published information which players can learn about and adapt to and then apply to their game-play.
Adapt, improvise, overcome, eh?  🙂 

You reference the Band of Brothers movie and infantry maneuvers.
Which simply reminds me of my earlier comment about WOWs being a lot like paintball.  🙂 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

26 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

It takes years to train a person to become the Captain of a Naval Warship, in real life.
Yet people expect to be able to pick-up this game within minutes?  🙂 

Yes, this game starts out pretty simple and progresses to become more interesting.
And, yes, in my opinion, real-life military principles can be adapted and applied.  ("Crossing-the-T" becomes "focused fire", for example.)
But this is also a game wherein "consumables" can be a variation of "power-ups" or "healing potions" or "magic mushrooms" found in other games.  🙂 

You are comparing this game to being a real life warship captain?

LOL

LOL

LOL

Not at all similar or useful comparison, IMO.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

2 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I politely disagree.  🙂

For me, playing RTS CV's was like a fast-paced game of Chess with all the pieces being able to move simultaneously.

The "consumables" being more like arcade-game power-ups.  Is it "real life"?  Nope.
But, it is "in-game" and it is published information which players can learn about and adapt to and then apply to their game-play.
Adapt, improvise, overcome, eh?  🙂 

You reference the Band of Brothers movie and infantry maneuvers.
Which simply reminds me of my earlier comment about WOWs being a lot like paintball.  🙂 

Chess and an RTS game are not at all comparable.

[Wolfswetpaws]

5 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Chess and an RTS game are not at all comparable.

That's your opinion, and as such it is valid for you.  🙂 

I'll add something as food for thought, playing StarCraft (I & II) prepared me for the RTS play environment of RTS CV's.

[Wolfswetpaws]

4 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

You are comparing this game to being a real life warship captain?

LOL

LOL

LOL

Not at all similar or useful comparison, IMO.

Quoted from the article:  "I find when I free myself from the expectation that I can be great, I can start having fun."
https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2019/8/23/20828597/the-10000-hour-rule-debunked

 

[Type_93]

56 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Why Would Any New Player play this game at all? is a better question. Sure Low tiers feels almost like bathtub events with small duckies popping around shooting at each other. Then you hit mid tiers where you will start to face 2 CVs on each side in ships with no AA and then subs (which are tested and balanced with WGs stamp of approval ... so no problems there ... its a "skill issue" .....)

Then you try and progress which is pretty much PaytoWin these days since its harder and harder to get a good economy and all the other players you face will play OP/unbalanced Premiums or classes like subs and CVs. So basically you invest time or god forgive you money into a game that will most likely only give you grief. 

It’s a good thing everything you said is opinion. We all get the same games. Most players just deal with things and get better. Sure, being focused by 2 CVs is frustrating, but it’s not every game. 3 subs in a match? Hardly ever.  You seem angry to the point that you should take a break from the game. You’re not doing anyone any favors by spreading negativity like that. New players are going to learn to play the game the way it is, not how you want it to be. The will learn how to deal with CVs and subs because they have to. That the game now. Just because you are burnt out and bitter does t mean a new player won’t love the game just like you did when you first started playing.