Seamanship

[Gillhunter]

I'm aware this is an arcade game and that a high percentage of the players have never been on any kind of water craft much less controlled one or are knowledgeable of any rules of navigation. The complete disregard of trying not to ram other team members ships seems to becoming common in PVE. To top it off when someone changes course and rams you they get upset because you were "in their way". This I believe is caused by either ignorance or arrogance.

Team damage was removed from the game game when subs were introduced. I can only guess why. I think it needs to be reintroduced. I don't think that will happen because the new target market for WOWs seems to be for 12-14 year olds. Maybe that's a good business decision, but I don't like the effect that removing team damage seems to have on the game.

 

 

[Ganso]

That is a bad idea because it only opens a new way for griefers to sabotage other players. Even when the Allied damage was on, ramming other ships was just as common as it is today. It's just a cultural issue imo. For me, always the most agile ship is the one that must move out of the way because it is easier for them. However, both players must do everything in their hands to avoid the ram because it affects both of them.

[Gillhunter]

16 minutes ago, Ganso said:

That is a bad idea because it only opens a new way for griefers to sabotage other players. Even when the Allied damage was on, ramming other ships was just as common as it is today. It's just a cultural issue imo. For me, always the most agile ship is the one that must move out of the way because it is easier for them. However, both players must do everything in their hands to avoid the ram because it affects both of them.

I disagree. After 40,000 plus matches IMO ramming (or being torped) was not as common as it it is today. Are you saying the game culture has mirrored the IRL culture? Maybe you are right.

As far as griefers, WOWs recently introduced an entire class of ship for them to play.

[Wolfswetpaws]

40 minutes ago, Gillhunter said:

I can only guess why.

My guess would be that WG/WOWs was not interested in hurting Submarines by having them get shot or rammed by team-mates.
Not that the lack of team-damage prevented some players from behaving poorly and greifing me while I played a Submarine.

I know, you didn't shoot at or ram my submarine(s), personally, @Gillhunter.  We've discussed that phenomena in the past, eh?  🙂 

Building-up to that point (the release of Submarines from the testing phases and becoming a permanent ship type in-game), I figure that WG/WOWs was looking for a way to cut labor costs and automate the process of dealing with in-game infractions of the team-kill rule violations.
By automating the process, personnel were freed-up from adjudicating customer service tickets and could be put to work on other projects.

It takes a lot of effort or Away-From-Keyboard-ing incidents to "turn pink" nowadays.

Bottom line? 
If a team-mate rams or shoots at my ship, I won't get sunk from the collision or ordnance (unless they push me into the path of red-team ordnance or ships).
I'm okay with not being sunk by a team-mate's navigation error or lousy aim.

[Gillhunter]

7 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

My guess would be that WG/WOWs was not interested in hurting Submarines by having them get shot or rammed by team-mates.
 

Now why on earth would that be necessary for the game's most loved class?

By the way, I never ram or shoot a shipmate on purpose.

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 minute ago, Gillhunter said:

Now why on earth would that be necessary for the game's most loved class?

I'll interpret that as a rhetorical question, said in jest.  🙂 

1 minute ago, Gillhunter said:

By the way, I never ram or shoot a shipmate on purpose.

We share that philosophy.  🙂 

[Gillhunter]

21 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I'll interpret that as a rhetorical question, said in jest.  🙂 

We share that philosophy.  🙂 

I would interpret it as WOWs knew they were introducing a class that would be very unpopular with a lot of players, but had so much money sunk in trying to make it fit the game that they did it anyway.

But that pulls the conversation away from whether WOWs should reintroduce team damage.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Gillhunter

[Admiral_Karasu]

8 minutes ago, Gillhunter said:

I would interpret it as WOWs knew they were introducing a class that would be very unpopular with a lot of players, but had so much money sunk in trying to make it fit the game that they did it anyway.

But that pulls the conversation away from whether WOWs should reintroduce team damage.

Depth charges are an accident waiting to happen.

[Gillhunter]

21 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Depth charges are an accident waiting to happen.

It's not uncommon while following a DD at the beginning of a match that they unload their Depth charges on you.

[Efros]

Some of us need to remind ourselves of the depth charge drop pattern for any given ship, WG needs to give us a reticle for depth charges. Ramming and just being a jerk is becoming more common in COOP, in any given week it'll happen more than a couple of times that I'll get rammed and driven off course by some idiot driving across the LOS to the reds. What can be fun is slowing down a tad to let them progress across your bow and then accelerate, warship PIT manoeuvre.

[Asym]

3 hours ago, Gillhunter said:

I'm aware this is an arcade game and that a high percentage of the players have never been on any kind of water craft much less controlled one or are knowledgeable of any rules of navigation. The complete disregard of trying not to ram other team members ships seems to becoming common in PVE. To top it off when someone changes course and rams you they get upset because you were "in their way". This I believe is caused by either ignorance or arrogance.

Team damage was removed from the game game when subs were introduced. I can only guess why. I think it needs to be reintroduced. I don't think that will happen because the new target market for WOWs seems to be for 12-14 year olds. Maybe that's a good business decision, but I don't like the effect that removing team damage seems to have on the game.

They had to remove team damage because, on some servers, all subs would have been destroyed at game start....   And, to be honest, team damage is too advanced a subject for the 8 year olds they want to market to......and, it's the 8 year old Mom's with a credit card they really want.

The rest of us want team damage and first world quality modes of play...........they can't afford our quality requirements....  So, it's children they seem to want.

Good luck with that.

[Wolfswetpaws]

3 hours ago, Gillhunter said:

It's not uncommon while following a DD at the beginning of a match that they unload their Depth charges on you.

Sometimes I do that, and announce that I'm doing a "Pattern test" in chat.  🙂 

[SunkCostFallacy]

The last few months I've noticed that I seem to be encountering a particular phenomenon much more often: I'll be steaming along and another ship will come at me from behind and to one side or the other ... and having rammed me the ship will continue to grind against me.

It's almost as if the player behind that ship expects that I will get out of his way and that I have no right to be in the same ocean as him, even when he rammed me.

It's particularly annoying when the ram threatens to turn you broadside to the red ships who are already shooting at you, or run you into an island.

Aside from that ... I, personally, would like to see team damage come back with the mirror-effect. If you spam a flood of torps at the ship I'm near, and half of them hit me I think you should have the damage that would have been done to my ship applied to your ship.

Yes ... I know that would make it possible for me to grief you by deliberately intercepting torpedoes and therefore causing damage to your ship, but we shouldn't be using our weapons where there's a possibility of hitting a team mate.

 

 

[Arcus_Aesopi]

4 hours ago, Asym said:

They had to remove team damage because, on some servers, all subs would have been destroyed at game start.... 

I liked team damage... and not JUST for killing green subs...

1 hour ago, SunkCostFallacy said:

The last few months I've noticed that I seem to be encountering a particular phenomenon much more often: I'll be steaming along and another ship will come at me from behind and to one side or the other ... and having rammed me the ship will continue to grind against me.

Just got to experience this from an Iowa approaching from behind...   I was hung on his bow for quite a bit. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

10 hours ago, SunkCostFallacy said:

The last few months I've noticed that I seem to be encountering a particular phenomenon much more often: I'll be steaming along and another ship will come at me from behind and to one side or the other ... and having rammed me the ship will continue to grind against me.

It's almost as if the player behind that ship expects that I will get out of his way and that I have no right to be in the same ocean as him, even when he rammed me.

 

Did you ... happen to spot the player's name?

[SunkCostFallacy]

1 minute ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Did you ... happen to spot the player's name?

Afraid not mate. I suppose I could wade through all the replays and dig out the names of the players who've done it, but that would be pretty painful!

[Admiral_Karasu]

12 minutes ago, SunkCostFallacy said:

Afraid not mate. I suppose I could wade through all the replays and dig out the names of the players who've done it, but that would be pretty painful!

Good... I mean don't spend time thinking about it then.

[Asym]

2 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Did you ... happen to spot the player's name?

Have you ever played Hermes in Random Ops?   There is a lot of "ship mating" that goes on in our Division of 6 or even 7 when we play RO's....  Players get "focused" in Binocular view and lose situational awareness in an attempt to best place their ship to earn value........even with a division of players who have hundreds of matches playing in a division....  Every night no less we see this behavior.

Ship mating evokes all that is wrong with this game being World of Tanks on water.....   Tanks compete for the best cover to survive.   Ships compete exactly the same way in that we are actually fighting on maps designed for tanks but enlarged to cover the size of ships.......  You do realize that, yes?

Watch an "Open Ocean" match to see the differences.....  Where ships create "formations" to concentrate offensive and defensive combat power.....  Remember, tanks don't have very many "defensive systems" yet and modern ships have had them from day one.....

Ever wonder why "Open Ocean" isn't in KOTS ?   Why we should have Open Ocean as the KOTS championship matches??  Imagine the results when tankers play ships is the answer.......they don't have carriers and subs for a reason.........open ocean is that reality and the elephant in the room, isn't it.....  Are we really a "naval game" or not????

Play a KOTS finals on Open Ocean and the answer would be so obvious it'd hurt....  Would anyone even know how to actually fight that way???  

Just a thought

Edited October 23, 2023 by Asym

[Admiral_Karasu]

26 minutes ago, Asym said:

Have you ever played Hermes in Random Ops?   There is a lot of "ship mating" that goes on in our Division of 6 or even 7 when we play RO's....  Players get "focused" in Binocular view and lose situational awareness in an attempt to best place their ship to earn value........even with a division of players who have hundreds of matches playing in a division....  Every night no less we see this behavior.

Ship mating evokes all that is wrong with this game being World of Tanks on water.....   Tanks compete for the best cover to survive.   Ships compete exactly the same way in that we are actually fighting on maps designed for tanks but enlarged to cover the size of ships.......  You do realize that, yes?

Watch an "Open Ocean" match to see the differences.....  Where ships create "formations" to concentrate offensive and defensive combat power.....  Remember, tanks don't have very many "defensive systems" yet and modern ships have had them from day one.....

Ever wonder why "Open Ocean" isn't in KOTS ?   Why we should have Open Ocean as the KOTS championship matches??  Imagine the results when tankers play ships is the answer.......they don't have carriers and subs for a reason.........open ocean is that reality and the elephant in the room, isn't it.....  Are we really a "naval game" or not????

Play a KOTS finals on Open Ocean and the answer would be so obvious it'd hurt....  Would anyone even know how to actually fight that way???  

Just a thought

Yeah... the Ocean is the only real WoWS map there is, mind you some of the original maps were better than what we got now, and the lower tier maps still tend to be better, even with the 'rock formations' etc. More open water nonetheless. Some of the operation maps are pretty good too (Not Hermes though), typically the best operation maps I've seen are the Dunkirk one, Operation Dynamo, and the Eternal (?) Frontier one we got now.

The binocular view thing is a thing, especially for me. I spend a lot of time in that view, especially when there's any shooting, and I'm fairly guilty of 'mating' myself often enough under those circumstances.

[Ganso]

On 10/22/2023 at 12:09 PM, Gillhunter said:

As far as griefers, WOWs recently introduced an entire class of ship for them to play.

Excuse me but that isn't an argument.

[Gillhunter]

14 hours ago, Ganso said:

Excuse me but that isn't an argument.

Don't think so. I didn't notice anyone arguing.

Edited October 24, 2023 by Gillhunter

[Ganso]

14 hours ago, Gillhunter said:

Don't think so. I didn't notice anyone arguing.

Not arguing such as a negative discussion. But argument as a structured and logical idea that proves a point. Subs have nothing to do with the fact that enabling allied damage will only give griefers another way of griefing others. You only mentioned it to distract everyone's attention from the main point. 

[Gillhunter]

9 hours ago, Ganso said:

Not arguing such as a negative discussion. But argument as a structured and logical idea that proves a point. Subs have nothing to do with the fact that enabling allied damage will only give griefers another way of griefing others. You only mentioned it to distract everyone's attention from the main point. 

No, just addressed the concern that griefers would take advantage of team damage. Just pointed out that WOWS supports griefing.

[Efros]

So did you pay for the 5 minute one or the full half hour?

[HamptonRoads]

For those that didn't get @efros' last post:

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by HamptonRoads