WGs pricing ... is this normal?!

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

I missed the U-4501 with my Coal coupon the other day and just wanted to look what it costs in the Premium shop and my jaw kinda dropped.

This is in Swedish SEK, but in my currency 1374 kr which WG takes for the small "bundle" to the right is the same amount of money you can buy 3 ..... I say again 3 triple A titels!?! And that is for ONE premium sub in an online game with a Very questionable future.  

Is this normal?! Is ANYONE buying these overpriced things??

Im not trying to throw som shade here, back in 2015-2018 when I still threw money at WG and whaled for a bit, I bought a ton of great premiums like Asashio, Kidd, Atago etc etc but that was T8´s, since back then you couldn't buy yourself into T10 like today. So the price for those items was like 30 euros each which was a bit expensive but since you played the game so much back then it was a decent investment (which I today have gotten a crap ton of free steel, coal, free XP and RB ships for), so they have kind of payed for themselves.

But the money equivalent to 3 triple A titels for one T10 premium sub, do anyone think it is worth it?! Specially since I will get in for free in december with my new coupon and coal?! And the bigger "bundle" we shouldn't even talk about, that is 4 triple-A gaming titels!!

Even IF you play this game today as a full time job I have trouble to see how this would be a good investment but more like getting rammed from behind.

I have a hard time seeing even whales throw this kind of money at some questionable pixels that can be changed nerfed at any time.

Thoughts?

[Wulf_Ace]

I am more fascinated about how many money event they are throwin at players.

Open armory and look at the prices , close the armory. 

Even if I want to buy something I have to gamle to get a chance to get it OR pay ultra overprice for that item. 

[tocqueville8]

I mean...look at the Armory:

• Tier 8s are around 10-13k dubs, depending on the class
• Tier 9s are 19.3k dubs, regardless of the class
• Tier 10s are...I can't remember, but high 20s-low 30s would be in line with the trend
• throw in the +200% xp mission for N days, and they can price it higher
• throw in a bunch of flags and blue boosters, and they can price it higher still

Pretty sure that very few people buy these bundles, but from WG's viewpoint there's no harm in trying, I guess. As long as regular players can get the item(s) for free, hardly anyone is going to get mad someone else is paying this much for it.

On the other hand, some people will buy anything: it makes them feel invested more than actually learning the game would, sort of "I spend, therefore I care".

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

1 hour ago, Wulf_Ace said:

I am more fascinated about how many money event they are throwin at players.

Open armory and look at the prices , close the armory. 

Even if I want to buy something I have to gamle to get a chance to get it OR pay ultra overprice for that item. 

 

27 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

I mean...look at the Armory:

• Tier 8s are around 10-13k dubs, depending on the class
• Tier 9s are 19.3k dubs, regardless of the class
• Tier 10s are...I can't remember, but high 20s-low 30s would be in line with the trend
• throw in the +200% xp mission for N days, and they can price it higher
• throw in a bunch of flags and blue boosters, and they can price it higher still

Pretty sure that very few people buy these bundles, but from WG's viewpoint there's no harm in trying, I guess. As long as regular players can get the item(s) for free, hardly anyone is going to get mad someone else is paying this much for it.

On the other hand, some people will buy anything: it makes them feel invested more than actually learning the game would, sort of "I spend, therefore I care".

Yes, Im just a bit baffled over their business model. How many more premium ships wouldn't they sell if they priced them more at normal prices that even kids could get their moms to pay. I have a hard time thinking that a few hardline whales that throw these money away can keep the company afloat.

Specially since you can get most of them for free by just playing the game. These ships I have gotten for free just by playing for many years (Coal, steel, Dabloon drops, free Christmas containers, Free XP etc etc):

Also include the "forbidden ships" I gotten for free that doesn't show in the Armory. Smolensk, Jean Bart, OG Missouri, Somers, Kamikaze R and probably some more I cant remember right now. 

Tirpitz, Kidd, Atago, Asashio and Cossack I payed for back in the day with my hard earned money, all the rest and especially all the expensive T 9-10´s I gotten from free.

So im just kinda baffled that they price these items for these insane prices if some poor sod actually would like to support the company.

Its like having 2 coffee machines in a lobby, in the first one, one cup costs 500 dollars, but if you walk to the next 50 meters away (Coal grind and Coupon) its free. If they priced the coffee in the first machine 1 dollar many would actually consider paying a dollar not to have to walk the 50 meters.

 

I just dont get it.....

Edited October 19, 2023 by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube

[Ensign Cthulhu]

2 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

This is in Swedish SEK, but in my currency 1374 kr which WG takes for the small "bundle" to the right is the same amount of money you can buy 3 ..... I say again 3 triple A titels!?! And that is for ONE premium sub in an online game with a Very questionable future.  

Is this normal?! Is ANYONE buying these overpriced things??

It would be interesting to see the sales figures, given that the same ship (albeit without any of the extras) is also available for coal, and that the patch notes clearly state this:

The paid option is for people who have literally no patience and more money than sense, and chances are you will see them approaching the rest of life in the same fashion.

 

[tocqueville8]

Just now, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

How many more premium ships wouldn't they sell if they priced them more at normal prices that even kids could get their moms to pay

They would sell more but at lower prices, and besides, some people would only pay for a few premiums anyway: enough to retrain captains for this or that nation, to play Operations, or because of the history. If WG makes them cheaper they'd simply earn less money.

Personally, I'm someone who only buys ships with coupons and/or F2P doubloons. But the point is: I do it anyway, a few times a year, even though I also get plenty of premiums for free from events, containers and such. Unless I get lucky with a bundle chain and there's a premium in the first item, I don't just spend dubs out of my schedule: I gave myself a WoWs budget and I follow it: cheaper prices wouldn't mean more money for WG, it would mean the same money but more ships for me.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

I am always somewhat morbidly fascinated by how wealth orders of magnitude greater than mine produces alien to me actions.

The answer is, obviously, yes...some people are spending that money on the game.

No, you probably can't understand how that value proposition is perceived by the extremely wealthy.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

 

31 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

besides, some people would only pay for a few premiums anyway: enough to retrain captains for this or that nation,

Coal ships of various tiers and types are available for every nation in the game with a tech tree, although some of those nations (e.g. Germany, Italy, Spain, Netherlands) lack a low to mid tier option for direct coal purchase* that's suitable for relative beginners.

Technically there is no need to ever buy a premium ship for money at all, which was not the case when I first joined. 

 

* T6 Italian DD Leone is available indirectly for coal, by completing the Italian Destroyers collection via coal crates.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Ensign Cthulhu

[Admiral_Karasu]

Well, back in the day when we had those differently priced bundles, with the Admiral's bundle being the most expensive, and the ship alone bundle being the 'cheapest' the pricing seemed to make more sense. The ships still cost effectively the same as a full game, though, but if you wanted the ship you could get the ship.

[S7CentNickel]

I’m probably going to let my 50% coupon expire. 5-6k of dubs (@ $30) is still too much for a boat I’m really not enthralled with   

[HMS_Kilinowski]

5 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I have a hard time seeing even whales throw this kind of money at some questionable pixels that can be changed nerfed at any time.

Thoughts?

 

The truth is that the value of premium ships is continuously decreasing. As a consumer I am expecting the game to last a certain time span. Strictly speaking, I do not pay to own the ships I buy, I pay a flatrate to rent them for that remaining time. The rental period decreases every day by one day. Likewise, the utility of me using it, decreases accordingly. The rental price for a shorter rental period should be lower. That is my valuation as a customer.

If Wargaming was to follow that very sound logic, they would steadily decrease the prices of non-expendable items such as premium ship, perma camos/bonusses and commanders.

They do not. Why?

For WG, it's all about appearances. The rationale behind prices, for them, is signalling. If they were to continuously lower prices, they would admit the game has an expiration date and is currently closer to that date than to the launch of the game. That kind of signal would backfire into their sales, cause then the customers would seriously question, whether it is worth still investing into a game nearing the end of its life-cycle. The whole sunk cost fallacy works on two principles: the money you have already invested and the duration of usage of the utility you sunk your money into. If you knew the game would end next week, then the sentiment of sunk cost doesn't work on you anymore. The fallacy is "I paid for it, now I need to commit to get the value I paid out of it." If you know time is about to run out, so does the opportunity to commit, and likewise the compulsory commitment collapses.

The scientific field of Game Theory features a sub-field studying repeated games. A key property of these games is reputation. Reputation changes your prediction of the behaviour of your opponent. The results however change drastically if a repeated game is not finite but infinite or if the end is unknown. In short, if you as a customer think your interaction with WG does not end in the foreseeable future, you tend to assign a higher value to their flatrate items.

So WG needs to uphold that idea of infinity in at least the ignorant customers, to keep them spending money. Thus they keep the prices high or even increase prices with irrational arguments such as inflation. On a rational level the WoWs market doesn't exist anymore cause the asking price for some time has been higher than the fair bid price.

 

On a sidenote: I hate that limit on editing posts. I will find a typo in three days and it will drive me crazy.

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by HMS_Kilinowski

[Wolfswetpaws]

5 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I missed the U-4501 with my Coal coupon the other day and just wanted to look what it costs in the Premium shop and my jaw kinda dropped.

This is in Swedish SEK, but in my currency 1374 kr which WG takes for the small "bundle" to the right is the same amount of money you can buy 3 ..... I say again 3 triple A titels!?! And that is for ONE premium sub in an online game with a Very questionable future.  

Is this normal?! Is ANYONE buying these overpriced things??

Im not trying to throw som shade here, back in 2015-2018 when I still threw money at WG and whaled for a bit, I bought a ton of great premiums like Asashio, Kidd, Atago etc etc but that was T8´s, since back then you couldn't buy yourself into T10 like today. So the price for those items was like 30 euros each which was a bit expensive but since you played the game so much back then it was a decent investment (which I today have gotten a crap ton of free steel, coal, free XP and RB ships for), so they have kind of payed for themselves.

But the money equivalent to 3 triple A titels for one T10 premium sub, do anyone think it is worth it?! Specially since I will get in for free in december with my new coupon and coal?! And the bigger "bundle" we shouldn't even talk about, that is 4 triple-A gaming titels!!

Even IF you play this game today as a full time job I have trouble to see how this would be a good investment but more like getting rammed from behind.

I have a hard time seeing even whales throw this kind of money at some questionable pixels that can be changed nerfed at any time.

Thoughts?

My thought is that these "bundles" are being offered as an option.
Some people have the money and the inclination to spend it on the Admiral Pack bundle.  Other people will merely save-up coal and use a coupon.
The ship is the same, the difference is in the items included with the ship.

I don't have a problem with this, as the buyer decides whether or not to make a purchase.

[Wulf_Ace]

30 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

My thought is that these "bundles" are being offered as an option.
Some people have the money and the inclination to spend it on the Admiral Pack bundle.  Other people will merely save-up coal and use a coupon.
The ship is the same, the difference is in the items included with the ship.

I don't have a problem with this, as the buyer decides whether or not to make a purchase.

problem is when the buyer is a player with no experience in tier 10 ships.

[Wolfswetpaws]

3 minutes ago, Wulf_Ace said:

problem is when the buyer is a player with no experience in tier 10 ships.

That's not a phenomena that a player can control. 
Rather, is it a phenomena that one should include in their planning and expectations.  🙂 

If I face an opponent who doesn't play very well. then I should be counting my blessings as I sink them, eh?
Because there's a roughly 50% chance of which team a bad player will be assigned to.
And perhaps each team will accidentally get an even distribution of "bad players" via the matchmaker system?

[Gnirf]

1 hour ago, S7CentNickel said:

I’m probably going to let my 50% coupon expire. 5-6k of dubs (@ $30) is still too much for a boat I’m really not enthralled with   

Well, the trick is to buy the ship with the discount coupon so first 50% for the doubloons (or rather double the amount) and then use 25 % coupon. 

[iDuckman]

4 hours ago, tocqueville8 said:

Tier 10s are...I can't remember, but high 20s-low 30s would be in line with the trend

35K Dubs

Every ship has a nominal Dub value, even the ones that aren't available for Dubs.  All the T10s have the same value.  I don't know what Dub value is for Superships.  That's a good question to ask.

Update:  My favorite WeeGee doesn't know.  I'd guess around 50K.  That's $200 USD.  <woof>

 

Edited October 19, 2023 by iDuckman

[Wulf_Ace]

30 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

That's not a phenomena that a player can control. 
Rather, is it a phenomena that one should include in their planning and expectations.  🙂 

If I face an opponent who doesn't play very well. then I should be counting my blessings as I sink them, eh?
Because there's a roughly 50% chance of which team a bad player will be assigned to.
And perhaps each team will accidentally get an even distribution of "bad players" via the matchmaker system?

You know I remember a time when you couldnt pay the game developer to reach last level, and you know what, that was a good time.

But now money rules the world, not a world of games I ve grown up with.

But there is no turning back.

[Gnirf]

55 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

 

The truth is that the value of premium ships is continuously decreasing. As a consumer I am expecting the game to last a certain time span. Strictly speaking, I do not pay to own the ships I buy, I pay a flatrate to rent them for that remaining time. The rental period decreases every day by one day. Likewise, the utility of me using it, decreases accordingly. The rental price for a shorter rental period should be lower. That is my valuation as a customer.

If Wargaming was to follow that very sound logic, they would steadily decrease the prices of non-expendable items such as premium ship, perma camos/bonusses and commanders.

They do not. Why?

For WG, it's all about appearances. The rationale behind prices, for them, is signalling. If they were to continuously lower prices, they would admit the game has an expiration date and is currently closer to that date than to the launch of the game. That kind of signal would backfire into their sales, cause then the customers would seriously question, whether it is worth still investing into a game nearing the end of its life-cycle. The whole sunk cost fallacy works on two principles: the money you have already invested and the duration of usage of the utility you sunk your money into. If you knew the game would end next week, then the sentiment of sunk cost doesn't work on you anymore. The fallacy is "I paid for it, now I need to commit to get the value I paid out of it." If you know time is about to run out, so does the opportunity to commit, and likewise the compulsory commitment collapses.

The scientific field of Game Theory features a sub-field studying repeated games. A key property of these games is reputation. Reputation changes your prediction of the behaviour of your opponent. The results however change drastically if a repeated game is not finite but infinite or if the end is unknown. In short, if you as a customer think your interaction with WG does not end in the foreseeable future, you tend to assign a higher value to their flatrate items.

So WG needs to uphold that idea of infinity in at least the ignorant customers, to keep them spending money. Thus they keep the prices high or even increase prices with irrational arguments such as inflation. On a rational level the WoWs market doesn't exist anymore cause the asking price for some time has been higher than the fair bid price.

 

On a sidenote: I hate that limit on editing posts. I will find a typo in three days and it will drive me crazy.

 

Very interesting take with the apperance thing.

I admit that I am a whale. But I try to buy the 50% doubloon coupon on my birthday and the 30% coupon with account anniversary and that is the main budget. My own rationale is that WOWs is pleasure money on intangible things like movies, whisky, sports/movie streams etc.

I am in my late fifties , my apartment is quite full. Intangible things that I enjoy is therefor a +. When I buy a book f.e. on warships , i need in principle to throw away an old book. 

So I have a budget on WoWs money/hour played. i play a lot so I accept a cost of certain amounts. But I abstain from a lot of things above all fantasy/abnime things with some rare ouliers - I like steampunk so the Halloween camos I have invested in back in the days + a few other ships (HSF Harekaze, Yukikaze.

I think the sub is far too expensive, bu I guess for some customers that are relatively new the coal ships are quite plentiful and I guess the buyers are among those that are stocked in money , and have little time. They may want a German sub but they have 30 branches to research/grind. For those a high tier premium makes some sense at least, not for us whale veterans that have ample "free" resources. Especially when you only need one high point captain/country. 

Now, how long will WG last? How does that affect purchasing? I think that my spending has gone down overall, I do not buy ships much any longer except DY which I consider ships with discount. I naturally grind for the free ships like Jäger. 

I must admit that I did make one exception this year, Karl XIV Johan, it is a Swedish ship although completely fantasy and not directly remotely plausible and as I am from Seden I bought the basic ship with 50% discounted doubloons so around 10.000 in practice. It was with hesitation. But in general I use Santas for my ships otherwise.

The more ships you have the less utility does new premium ships bring , although I do like to have some per country.

I might be more inclined to spend on lower tier ships that have historic relevance, ships like Seydlitz, Glowworm, Le Hardi or are weird Kitikami, RU Torpedo BBs etc.

IJN fantasy ships (but designs) from Hiraga archive with quads or Amagi type but with 6x2. There are plenty there.

I think that WG in their prizing in different tiers somehow takes into account the utility in a premium. Instead of going after the cost of producing the model which should be about the same, maybe a little higher for real ships on higher tiers if they are more complex and more important to get right, but let us for convenience say that the cost is about the same to produce, the customer which plays one game gets more out of a higher tier i terms of credits, XP etc so that is what motivates the prize.

It seems that the players have accepted that enough that it satisfies WG. If we here think hat the prizing of the sub is absurd (and I do) the history of WOws so far indicates that we are wrong from a business standpoint of providing money to WG.

But I do guess that the massive influx of new ships and gaming events, battle pass are a sign that they need to increase their cashflow overall as the sales units/ship probably are decreasing. OTOH maaybe newer players still might buy ships like Tirpitz and Scharnhorst so there the cashflow is entirely positive, programming posts are since long taken.

This is my 10 öre/0,1 cents.

Interesting topic IMO  

[iDuckman]

2 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

No, you probably can't understand how that value proposition is perceived by the extremely wealthy.

Oh, I can.  But if I were really wealthy, I doubt I'd be playing this game.

 

[tocqueville8]

32 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Coal ships of various tiers and types are available for every nation in the game with a tech tree, although some of those nations (e.g. Germany, Italy, Spain, Netherlands) lack a low to mid tier option for direct coal purchase* that's suitable for relative beginners.

Sure, but it takes months to get even just 5-6 mid-tier coal ships. Plus people are often told to save up for a Tier 9/10 (a practice I discourage when it comes to new players), or decide so on their own. So coal might be off-limits for them

Edited October 19, 2023 by tocqueville8

[Mordt]

4 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

It would be interesting to see the sales figures, given that the same ship (albeit without any of the extras) is also available for coal, and that the patch notes clearly state this:

The paid option is for people who have literally no patience and more money than sense, and chances are you will see them approaching the rest of life in the same fashion.

 

You know, I really do want to see how many people actually buy bundles like this. 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

24 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

Sure, but it takes months to get even just 5-6 mid-tier coal ships. Plus people are often told to save up for a Tier 9/10 (a practice I discourage when it comes to new players), or decide so on their own. So coal might be off-limits for them

Then you take months, but it's better than not being able to get them at all.

If you constantly spam coal crates, you'd be surprised how fast it builds up. 

[Type_93]

4 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

The paid option is for people who have literally no patience and more money than sense, and chances are you will see them approaching the rest of life in the same fashion.

Hey! 
 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

1 hour ago, iDuckman said:

35K Dubs

Every ship has a nominal Dub value, even the ones that aren't available for Dubs.  All the T10s have the same value.  I don't know what Dub value is for Superships.  That's a good question to ask.

Update:  My favorite WeeGee doesn't know.  I'd guess around 50K.  That's $200 USD.  <woof>

 

Value to WG?

Otherwise it's just a dub price.

Semantics, I know...but there isn't a market, so price does not equal value.

[AdmiralThunder]

3 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I am always somewhat morbidly fascinated by how wealth orders of magnitude greater than mine produces alien to me actions.

The answer is, obviously, yes...some people are spending that money on the game.

No, you probably can't understand how that value proposition is perceived by the extremely wealthy.

It isn't always the extremely wealthy however. Take me for example. I am a huge whale (well I was before WG turned me off so bad and now I am more of a guppy) and have spent a staggering amount of real $$$ on the game since I started playing in 2016. I am disabled and don't have an unlimited supply of throw away income the way a wealthy person would. Frankly my income is pretty low.

However, WOWS is my main form of entertainment, and it takes up a lot of my day, so spending on it actually is worth it to me. There isn't much else I do for fun these days (hunting and fishing like I used to do so much is kind of not feasible for me anymore) so I will (did anyway) spend on WOWS. I can see retired folks sort of fitting that same mold. The stuff in this game is expensive I don't think anyone would deny that but for many folks this is what we spend our disposable income on for a variety of reasons. 

I don't think spending on WOWS = extreme wealth. For some sure, most likely, but not everyone.

Just some food for thought.

Edited October 19, 2023 by AdmiralThunder