One more thing about being critical of WG... some interesting background info...

[YouSatInGum]

....Just wanted to let you all know that I finally got the time to read the thread on being critical of WG...

Because of the job I have now, I don't have the same amount of time that I used to have to be active as I once was on the original forums.

That said, I was planning adding my own 2 cents since have been around since the "golden years" of WOWS pre 0.8 but mainly because I have researched the company beyond a superficial level.  In a former career I would research corporate marketing and strategy...

Also, several of you all probably also know me as one who will challenge corporate BS such as when WG was trying to tell us all that the economic rework wasn't a 50% nerf but actually good for the player base. 

...but the thread got closed before I had a chance, I wanted to add this little nugget of insight. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMYJQrZ4jek

 

Edited October 15, 2023 by YouSatInGum

[Frostbow]

59 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

...but the thread got closed before I had a chance, I wanted to add this little nugget of insight. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMYJQrZ4jek

Interesting. Quite long, but it is interesting hearing more about some of the inner workings.
 

1 hour ago, YouSatInGum said:

Also, several of you all probably also know me as one who will challenge corporate BS such as when WG was trying to tell us all that the economic rework wasn't a 50% nerf but actually good for the player base. 

...but the thread got closed before I had a chance, I wanted to add this little nugget of insight. 

It was good that the said thread was closed, because what started as a thinly veiled call to reduce or tone down our criticisms on Wargaming eventually devolved into accusing Mouse of 'fundamental dishonesty' when the Yukon review came out. Moreover, that thread had this laughable threat that if one would suspect Wargaming of having motives, you would not find yourself in the 'good graces' of that thread's OP.

[Admiral_Karasu]

Ehem... *cough*

Back on topic. This podcast is a must for everyone, and yes it is quite a long one with way too low a view count and thumbs up count. If the only thing you got time for is listen to the bit about 'Machine Zone joins with Wargaming'.

Yeah.. I know that sentence is grammatically rubbish.

The sections on the podcast are timestamped in the video description, you can watch the whole thing (as I did back in the day), or watch it in installments, but I seriously recommend everyone who yet hasn't will watch this video.

[clammboy]

1 hour ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

hem... *cough*

Back on topic.

Lol 

[HMS_Kilinowski]

7 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

....Just wanted to let you all know that I finally got the time to read the thread on being critical of WG...

Because of the job I have now, I don't have the same amount of time that I used to have to be active as I once was on the original forums.

That said, I was planning adding my own 2 cents since have been around since the "golden years" of WOWS pre 0.8 but mainly because I have researched the company beyond a superficial level.  In a former career I would research corporate marketing and strategy...

Also, several of you all probably also know me as one who will challenge corporate BS such as when WG was trying to tell us all that the economic rework wasn't a 50% nerf but actually good for the player base. 

...but the thread got closed before I had a chance, I wanted to add this little nugget of insight. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMYJQrZ4jek

 

 

Yeah, I tried to argue against the Champagne "money-grab" on discord, but after two mods and a WG-shill turned up, I sensed I was navigating myself into a discord-ban, if I continued to argue.

tl;dr
Anything you pay money for in WoWs can be taken away arbitrarily at any moment and without compensation. You depend entirely on trust into WG's good will to fulfil, what is not even an obligation, but just a hope that WG delivers what they are selling you.

[Andrewbassg]

5 hours ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

Yeah, I tried to argue against the Champagne "money-grab" on discord, but after two mods and a WG-shill turned up, I sensed I was navigating myself into a discord-ban, if I continued to argue.

 

 

 

[b101uk]

9 hours ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

Yeah, I tried to argue against the Champagne "money-grab" on discord, but after two mods and a WG-shill turned up, I sensed I was navigating myself into a discord-ban, if I continued to argue.

Well it is hardly surprising, given there is NO "Champagne "money-grab"" per se, unless you are somehow equating resources to money, and well coal, ECXP, silver, are not IRL money, and the only posable IRL money element is days of premium time and doubloons which are optional if you are short of none monetary resources, and the whole Champagne things IS OPTIONAL CONTENT ANYWAY.

 

I get it, you like some others have an agender to peddle that everything is a "money-grab", but much of the time you cannot see the wood for the trees.

[Andrewbassg]

2 hours ago, b101uk said:

Well it is hardly surprising, given there is NO "Champagne "money-grab"" per se, unless you are somehow equating resources to money, and well coal, ECXP, silver, are not IRL money, and the only posable IRL money element is days of premium time and doubloons which are optional if you are short of none monetary resources, and the whole Champagne things IS OPTIONAL CONTENT ANYWAY.

 

So..... a) It is a money grab.

          b) If one doesn't have the resources, needs to spend money to get the items. Not all people have gazillion of resources     ( Ya know, like....idk, new players??)

          c) 30 days of premium is equated to 1000 dubs. if you can point me to the place, from where i can buy 30 days PT for 1000 dubs.......it would be much appreciated.

Now, to an extent,  I do appreciate that they made the event available for resources ( so older players can spend them), but...... the ratios  are at the very best ...  "interesting".

About being "optional"......that's a rabbit hole I'm not interested to enter. Not because I can't, but because it is indeed a.... rabbit hole.

 

As for....

2 hours ago, b101uk said:

I get it, you like some others have an agender to peddle that everything is a "money-grab", but much of the time you cannot see the wood for the trees.

a) his opinion is not your biz, to judge.

b) Wedgie is a billion dollar company. Not a damsel in distress. 

c) We, as older players( and also people),  are a bit responsible to guide.... younglings. To an extent. Tho... that is optional.

 

("Mod" mode of nonmod  on)

People, we all are coming from very different cultures, and we all have  different backgrounds, norms, languages ,ages and whatnot. Things that we are taking for granted doesn't automatically translate in relatable terms, to and for others. While 1+1=2 everywhere..... we  are not machines and we don't communicate in binary language. Things will get lost in translation. I'm talking from experience, both IRL and as participant on the NA forums, while being from EU. For example,  generally speaking, the US has a very VERY  different approach, mentality, and norms  towards businesses as the EU. Another example, in the US "disturbing the peace" is very much a thing, while in EU.... very much not. So, people are NOT necessarily "in love with Wedgie", or "have agenders"  just simply have a different ABC , norms and expectations. And terms like "schill and "agender" and "some others" are all loaded and constitute "invitation for dance". We all like to "dance" ( I know I do 🙂 ) but.....lets.... not. Please.... ask before ..."jump" .So ....lets keep these in mind, lets show a bit of patience (maybe more)   and appreciate what we have here.

("Mod" mode of nonmod  off)

 

PS. Can we just go back to be a lovable bunch of ship loving oldies, who enjoy each other company? Pls gibb....

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Andrewbassg

[Jakob Knight]

12 hours ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

 

Anything you pay money for in WoWs can be taken away arbitrarily at any moment and without compensation. You depend entirely on trust into WG's good will to fulfil, what is not even an obligation, but just a hope that WG delivers what they are selling you.

 

That is true of just about everything in life.  We trust those we do business with to hold up their end of an agreement or sale, and quite often, it all can be taken away without recourse when that proves wrong.  Human justice requires humans to be willing to act honorably, but not all humans are honorable.

 

So don't be too attached to things.  If you choose to spend your money on something, do so with the understanding that it won't be there one day and enjoy it while it is.  

 

 

[Hugh_Ruka]

2 hours ago, b101uk said:

Well it is hardly surprising, given there is NO "Champagne "money-grab"" per se, unless you are somehow equating resources to money, and well coal, ECXP, silver, are not IRL money, and the only posable IRL money element is days of premium time and doubloons which are optional if you are short of none monetary resources, and the whole Champagne things IS OPTIONAL CONTENT ANYWAY.

 

I get it, you like some others have an agender to peddle that everything is a "money-grab", but much of the time you cannot see the wood for the trees.

you mean like only dubs can give you 100% to obtain the ship ? and no matter what other resources you have to spend, you HAVE to spend doubloons + pure doubloon cost is more than premium store ship cost ?

[HMS_Kilinowski]

4 hours ago, b101uk said:

Well it is hardly surprising, given there is NO "Champagne "money-grab"" per se, unless you are somehow equating resources to money, and well coal, ECXP, silver, are not IRL money, and the only posable IRL money element is days of premium time and doubloons which are optional if you are short of none monetary resources, and the whole Champagne things IS OPTIONAL CONTENT ANYWAY.

 

I get it, you like some others have an agender to peddle that everything is a "money-grab", but much of the time you cannot see the wood for the trees.

The difference is, you are blinded by a simple proxy. I put one more currency in between the money and the grab, and in your perception it stops being a money grab. But this is the nature of confusion. You use a proxy server and suddenly you are from Singapore, instead of Berlin. You seem to make millions on a taxi company, but you're Pablo Escobar. Rockstar introduced the casino into GTA Online, which, because of a dedicated ingame currency exchange, is not gambling with real money, cause money =>Shark Card =>ingame money => casino currency.
Now think about WoWs. I buy ingame currencies or buy more efficient farming of not-directly purchasable currencies and then I use those currencies to shop other items at an excessive whale price.

When companies go for you money they tend to go the extra mile and you should go the extra mile, too, to check behind the curtain.

Edited October 16, 2023 by HMS_Kilinowski

[HMS_Kilinowski]

2 hours ago, Jakob Knight said:

 

That is true of just about everything in life.  We trust those we do business with to hold up their end of an agreement or sale, and quite often, it all can be taken away without recourse when that proves wrong.  Human justice requires humans to be willing to act honorably, but not all humans are honorable.

 

So don't be too attached to things.  If you choose to spend your money on something, do so with the understanding that it won't be there one day and enjoy it while it is. 

 

I see you never sued anybody. Just trust them to hold their end and if they don't, write it off. You do know there is laws, right? If you purchse something, you are entitled to get that something, unless the company you buy it from, is insolvent in which case there is some sort of creditor protection, or a fraud in which case they will go to prison. You never have to trust a anybody, which is why there are reviews for certain online sellers.

Edited October 16, 2023 by HMS_Kilinowski

[Asym]

2 hours ago, b101uk said:

Well it is hardly surprising, given there is NO "Champagne "money-grab"" per se, unless you are somehow equating resources to money, and well coal, ECXP, silver, are not IRL money, and the only posable IRL money element is days of premium time and doubloons which are optional if you are short of none monetary resources, and the whole Champagne things IS OPTIONAL CONTENT ANYWAY.

I get it, you like some others have an agender to peddle that everything is a "money-grab", but much of the time you cannot see the wood for the trees.

It's the slippery slope argument that almost everyone, sometime in their lives, experiences......and, it can drive them nuts as well....

Making money to support a game is part of the problem.  It's just a game for heavens sake.  It's not Healthcare or Education, which I might add, both have some impressively terrible money making paradigms and practices that would make this discussion moot and simply, not relevant....

My two cents rests with the concept that says; 

• By creating first world content, you create first world revenue by creating all of the mechanics many recognize as valued systems: 
• hard work has significant rewards; 
• savings always promote better choices; 
• a well spent effort is rewarded by well designed rewards;

         and,

• it's better to spend more for the best products - because, they simply last the longest, perform to the expectations of the cost, and, will be there long after the effort to acquire them.

This game isn't there ^^^^^ and, what we see is the angst (adaptive friction) many of us feel as we "chafe" under a process so poorly developed, it makes us want to cry......

[Jakob Knight]

6 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

 

I see you never sued anybody. Just trust them to hold their end and if they don't write it off. You do know there is laws, right? If you purchse something, you are entitled to get that something, unless the company you buy it from, is insolvent in which case there is some sort of creditor protection, or a fraud in which case they will go to prison. You never have to trust a anybody, which is why there are reviews for certain online sellers.

 

A competent dishonorable person can find the loopholes to jump through or hire a lawyer to find them to use the laws to prevent any outcome they don't wish.  Or the case takes many years to come to Court and you end up with far more fees than the original item.  Or, the State itself is your opponent and just imposes eminient domain.  Or, it's just a group of people with guns who want what you have.

 

Again, laws only work when dealing with the honorable.  Many people are, at their core, because they understand and want a just society, but all rights and entitlements are just writing on paper at the end of the day, and won't stop those who don't care about that paper.

 

And that doesn't even account for accident, disaster, or mistake on your own part.

 

All in all, don't place too much into anything material or digital.  Especially the digital, that goes away when a switch is thrown or a magnet carelessly put in the wrong place.

 

 

[b101uk]

The Champagne in the Salvage for Victory part of the Armory is NOT aimed at new players, any talk of "ah but new players" is utter crap, it is aimed at people who have been around for a bit and thus have resources to spare, Coal, Elite Commander XP, Credits and Research Points are not IRL money.

 

IF WG really wanted to "money grab" in this instance, the Champagne ship would be the last part in place of the Flag, and they would guarantee there would have to be a "token" spend in order to get the Champagne ship, thus guaranteeing an element of income (doubloon purchase) or consumption of past income balance (doubloons already purchased).

 

As you can get the ship totally for free without purchase of doubloons or consumption of existing doubloon balance, or parting with days of premium, then the assertion that it is implicitly a money grab is false.

 

Save the ah but  "money grab" crap for when something IS A  "money grab" rather than crying wolf.

[Efros]

It may not be a money grab but it is certainly a resources grab, 370,000 coal for a T8 CA, or 660 days of premium for 55% of a T8 CA + bonus package + liner camo (about $180 worth of premium) , 120 million silver for the T8 bonus package +liner camo (about $200 of silver from the premium shop).  T8 Cruisers in the premium store go for about $45.

[clammboy]

As an older guy with 7 children I guess I am used to everything being a money grab. All these companies your health insurance, home owners policy, car insurance, the bank, your lawyer, the hospital, college, and last but not least your ex wife lol.

Honestly I still really enjoy the game and on a scale of money grabbing WG is pretty low on the list. I have to pick and choose my fights and I just dont feel like I am being taken advantage of by WG if I do my homework.

I really have never with the exception of a ship or two felt like I wasted my money playing the game and I am here since 2016.

Edited October 16, 2023 by clammboy

[HogHammer]

Just a slightly different take.  I will say, either creative marketing or whatever you may want to call it, that the fact that they came up with something different over the last several months (recent ship trade-in and offer an exchange of resources for an item) is something I welcome.  Personally, I would like to see the ship trade in again and perhaps expanded, and the same goes for an exchange of resources. 

This is not an event/promotion designed for all players, but those who have ships sitting in their port that are not played and perhaps would love to part ways with or those sitting on an excess of certain resources.  I did not take part in either, mainly because the offerings' scope was too limited.

Right now, I have 15 plus CVs sitting in my port.  Although they have a value assigned to them in the armory or Premium shop, they are just sitting there and presenting NO tangible value to me.  I would love to pass them on to a CV player (that, of course, will never happen) or trade them in for a ship I will at least play, enjoy, and give me a sense of value. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

17 minutes ago, HogHammer said:

Just a slightly different take.  I will say, either creative marketing or whatever you may want to call it, that the fact that they came up with something different over the last several months (recent ship trade-in and offer an exchange of resources for an item) is something I welcome.  Personally, I would like to see the ship trade in again and perhaps expanded, and the same goes for an exchange of resources. 

This is not an event/promotion designed for all players, but those who have ships sitting in their port that are not played and perhaps would love to part ways with or those sitting on an excess of certain resources.  I did not take part in either, mainly because the offerings' scope was too limited.

Right now, I have 15 plus CVs sitting in my port.  Although they have a value assigned to them in the armory or Premium shop, they are just sitting there and presenting NO tangible value to me.  I would love to pass them on to a CV player (that, of course, will never happen) or trade them in for a ship I will at least play, enjoy, and give me a sense of value. 

Yes, it definitely feels we got resources we cannot use or allocate efficiently.

[iDuckman]

The beatings will continue until the horse admits that he stinks. 

Don't you WG-haters have something better to do?

[Ensign Cthulhu]

56 minutes ago, Efros said:

It may not be a money grab but it is certainly a resources grab, 370,000 coal for a T8 CA

Champagne is a battleship.

I spent the coal for it because there was literally nothing else I really wanted to spend it on once I'd picked up the U-4501, and I still had over 150,000 once I'd got both. As things stand, even if they brought it back into the shop for cash and dubs tomorrow, I would have expended a renewable resource (coal) on a ship that one would normally have to buy with real money (or dubs bought for real money). I call that a win. 

Now if I were going to call anything a 'money grab' (or a trap for noobs), it would be the two Pan-Asian ships currently on offer for north of 35K dubs each. One is a duplicate of a tech tree ship, the other a duplicate of a coal ship. Both can be had without spending money, but even Agir bought for doubloons is a better deal than her Pan-Asian cousin.

44 minutes ago, clammboy said:

I really have never with the exception of a ship or two felt like I wasted my money playing the game and I am here since 2016.

I have occasionally questioned the wisdom of buying Yudachi. But before they changed the rules on the way Santa crates handle ships you already have, I had a couple of Santa crates that turned into supercontainers, meaning that they served me up a ship I already had and were forced to give me something else. So it's quite possible that the Yudachi I was so disappointed in "became" the Boise or the Duca d'Aosta that I like, and I no longer regret that purchase (and even if I did, that one's on me; I bought it with eyes wide open and any blame would have to fall on myself). 

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by Ensign Cthulhu

[Wolfswetpaws]

Welcoming the Champagne to my port is optional, as far as I am concerned.
Participation in the "salvage" or exchange of various in-game commodities (credits, doubloons, coal, steel, and etc.) is optional, for me.

Currently, I don't have enough to spare, anyway.  So there's that.

But I don't begrudge WG/WOWs creating events like this or the Lighthouse Auction, because participation is voluntary.

[AdmiralThunder]

45 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

Don't you WG-haters have something better to do?

This is the kind of comment that just starts problems.

There are a lot of us who have been burned by WG so many times our view is generally negative but that doesn't mean we are "haters". Many of us can still praise them when it is deserved unlike some who NEVER will say a negative thing about WG and just suck up to them.

There are so many people who post in the negative because WG has earned it. It has nothing to do with "not having anything better to do". It has everything to do with an appropriate response to what they have done to the game and long time loyal players.

If you disagree with the negative then post why and explain in a civil manner but please don't start the attack and insult crap. Just no call for it.

[iDuckman]

The point is that they are beating a dead horse.  Not only has everything been said (more than everything, actually) but there is no one here to hear it.  So it cannot be characterized as "constructive".

If you want to include yourself it their number, go right ahead.

I'm out.

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by iDuckman

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, HogHammer said:

Right now, I have 15 plus CVs sitting in my port.  Although they have a value assigned to them in the armory or Premium shop, they are just sitting there and presenting NO tangible value to me.  I would love to pass them on to a CV player (that, of course, will never happen) or trade them in for a ship I will at least play, enjoy, and give me a sense of value. 

Psst.  Hey buddy.  You wanna buy a CV?  🙂