This Champagne Ship Is This The OP French Battleship

[tm63au]

Just wondering this ship that in this salvage event the Famous OP ship that is no longer available ? its on the " never to be sold again List " 

[Zaydin]

5 minutes ago, tm63au said:

Just wondering this ship that in this salvage event the Famous OP ship that is no longer available ? its on the " never to be sold again List " 

You're probably thinking of the Jean Bart.

Champagne only was put on sale once IIRC because no one really bought it. Either because it was just rather boring or because there were better/more interesting premiums to buy at the time.

[tm63au]

2 minutes ago, Zaydin said:

You're probably thinking of the Jean Bart.

Champagne only was put on sale once IIRC because no one really bought it. Either because it was just rather boring or because there were better/more interesting premiums to buy at the time.

I don't really care if its one of those ships that can smite the enemy, its more the collector side of me that was interested, but 6 guns in 2 turrets yikes !!! i would like to stay afloat longer than 5 minutes.

 

regards   

[Zaydin]

37 minutes ago, tm63au said:

I don't really care if its one of those ships that can smite the enemy, its more the collector side of me that was interested, but 6 guns in 2 turrets yikes !!! i would like to stay afloat longer than 5 minutes.

 

regards   

IIRC it's not a bad ship per se, but she's nothing special either. She's a sniper; very accurate at long ranges but also very squishy.

[Yedwy]

OP? No...

 

Neither is JB really TBH

 

But both are excellent

[Scrubby_McScrub]

Very decent ship. But, as stated, she's a sniper with some of the longest main gun base range in the game besides Yamato/Musashi/Republique at 25km. Not a BB, but a battlecruiser. Good accuracy on her 6-406s. Firing angles decent. Drawbacks are 25mm overmatch armor on her bow/stern. Stay back and bombs away and you are good. 

As a competitive ship, not recommended. Doesn't have the tools to carry a battle.  For collectors, heck yeah. Unique and fun ship to take out every once in a while. 

[Yedwy]

15 minutes ago, Scrubby_McScrub said:

Very decent ship. But, as stated, she's a sniper with some of the longest main gun base range in the game besides Yamato/Musashi/Republique at 25km. Not a BB, but a battlecruiser. Good accuracy on her 6-406s. Firing angles decent. Drawbacks are 25mm overmatch armor on her bow/stern. Stay back and bombs away and you are good. 

As a competitive ship, not recommended. Doesn't have the tools to carry a battle.  For collectors, heck yeah. Unique and fun ship to take out every once in a while. 

👍

[Nevermore135]

2 hours ago, Scrubby_McScrub said:

Not a BB, but a battlecruiser. Good accuracy on her 6-406s. Firing angles decent. Drawbacks are 25mm overmatch armor on her bow/stern. Stay back and bombs away and you are good. 

^This. She has French gun performance with excellent dispersion (vs. standard French dispersion, which is the worst among BBs) and 27mm overmatch since they are 406s and not 380s, which combine for extremely effective performance at long ranges.

As for why she’s not regularly available, no particular reason outside a desire to introduce artificial scarcity and drive up sales during the brief windows she is reintroduced. She’s not the only ship WG has done this with.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Nevermore135

[Project45_Opytny]

10 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

French Slava gun performance

Better than regular French, in fact. Almost equal to Slava. At the range of 21-km Champagne's AP shell is slower than that of Slava by only ~0.5s, and penetration at that range is inferior to Slava by only about 40-mm (459-mm vs. 498-mm).

And this is a Tier 8 ship that can bully poor superdreadnoughts like Fuso, New Mexico or Bayern in regular matchmaking. She has also much better mobility that allows her to attack from better positions, and perhaps being not that famous/infamous comparing with Slava (as illustrated with this post itself) maybe she has more chances to catch, combined with her own superb mobility.

[desmo_2]

She doesn't have good accuracy.  She has excellent accuracy, and typically with very tight groups.  This is nice since she doesn't have many guns to start with.

I rather enjoy playing her because of that accuracy.

[Nevermore135]

40 minutes ago, Project45_Opytny said:

Better than regular French

My point was that that her guns have similar “flavor” to other French BB guns, high velocity and penetration for their caliber, but with the dispersion to actually fight at long range where those are more of a benefit rather than a hindrance. Typical French battleships have the issue where their shells overpen a lot at close ranges, but their dispersion is very poor at long ranges. It’s similar to, but not as pronounced as, the issues with Italian BB AP.

Edited October 12, 2023 by Nevermore135

[Wolfswetpaws]

So far, this topic reminds me of a quote attributed to Townsend Whelen, "Only accurate guns are interesting".

[MnemonScarlet]

8 hours ago, tm63au said:

Just wondering this ship that in this salvage event the Famous OP ship that is no longer available ? its on the " never to be sold again List " 

Champagne is really strong as a positional BB that can only really do offensive things. It puts a premium on your ability to read the map/battle flow so you can get your damage/kills with those superb guns, and almost totally robs you of the ability to tank damage if you have to do it. So where you position it and when you do that is really important, so you can get the most use out of the guns.

For that reason a lot of really good players like it, and it's sort of a PR sink. Look at mine. You wouldn't think those numbers are yellow PR numbers normally, right? But because good players exploit the good qualities of the ship while minimizing the bad, my performance in it rates pretty average. Having a very good sense for how to position as a cruiser/DD and read battleflow helps a lot for Champagne (because due to its speed it will take certain types of risky positions people would not expect or account for), and the former part is something I'm not as strong in.

Edited October 12, 2023 by MnemonScarlet

[Pugilistic]

4 hours ago, desmo_2 said:

She doesn't have good accuracy.  She has excellent accuracy, and typically with very tight groups.  This is nice since she doesn't have many guns to start with.

I rather enjoy playing her because of that accuracy.

Yep. Ive hit BBs for citadels on successive salvoes at >20km with it. 

[_Kokushibo_]

58 minutes ago, MnemonScarlet said:

Champagne is really strong as a positional BB that can only really do offensive things. It puts a premium on your ability to read the map/battle flow so you can get your damage/kills with those superb guns, and almost totally robs you of the ability to tank damage if you have to do it. So where you position it and when you do that is really important, so you can get the most use out of the guns.

It's just a "poor man's Slava", nothing more. It doesn't have armor, the 32 mm deck means that it melts like butter from HE (just as every French BB does), it can't use its only 6 guns without showing broadside. Well-positioning in it often means that it needs to be in isolated positions (in order to take advantage of the possible opportunities), not with the "herd". That makes it a perfect target for CVs. Tier for tier, Slava is just a better ship. I'd rather play Tirpitz than this pat of butter.

[MnemonScarlet]

1 hour ago, _Kokushibo_ said:

It's just a "poor man's Slava", nothing more. It doesn't have armor, the 32 mm deck means that it melts like butter from HE (just as every French BB does), it can't use its only 6 guns without showing broadside. Well-positioning in it often means that it needs to be in isolated positions (in order to take advantage of the possible opportunities), not with the "herd". That makes it a perfect target for CVs. Tier for tier, Slava is just a better ship. I'd rather play Tirpitz than this pat of butter.

Our opinions are basically the opposite on those two. I consider Slava the sucker's version of a sniping BB, mostly due to the RB grind cost of it (it is ok as a ship) and the massive hype it got. It is also safer than Champagne for the reasons you stated, but the skill ceiling is lower (just like the skill floor). Champagne has more influence tier for tier (also overmatches way more of the ships it encounters), but it's more dangerous to play. Tirpitz is definitely safer, but it doesn't have the influence Champagne at tier can by a longshot.

Edited October 12, 2023 by MnemonScarlet

[Admiral_Karasu]

13 hours ago, MnemonScarlet said:

Our opinions are basically the opposite on those two. I consider Slava the sucker's version of a sniping BB, mostly due to the RB grind cost of it (it is ok as a ship) and the massive hype it got. It is also safer than Champagne for the reasons you stated, but the skill ceiling is lower (just like the skill floor). Champagne has more influence tier for tier (also overmatches way more of the ships it encounters), but it's more dangerous to play. Tirpitz is definitely safer, but it doesn't have the influence Champagne at tier can by a longshot.

Sucker here.

On the subject of Champagne, if I already have Gascoigne, why would I want to consider Champagne? I also don't like how WG has modelled these ships with those smaller turrets apparently modelled after 'Soviet specifications' or something. If they didn't want to make those guns functional, no clue as to why not, at least they could have made them turn so they would not look so bloody stupid and useless. That's my job in battle.

[Project45_Opytny]

1 hour ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

I also don't like how WG has modelled these ships with those smaller turrets apparently modelled after 'Soviet specifications' or something. If they didn't want to make those guns functional, no clue as to why not, at least they could have made them turn so they would not look so bloody stupid and useless. That's my job in battle.

I have difficulty understanding this. If you mean regular secondary turrets then activate "Animated Small Objects"; and if that is referring to the small guns placed outside the main turrets, they are attached there for solely training proposes (when the turret crew is practicing, instead of firing the main guns, these attached guns would be fired instead), at least that's a likely explanation.

[Admiral_Karasu]

28 minutes ago, Project45_Opytny said:

I have difficulty understanding this. If you mean regular secondary turrets then activate "Animated Small Objects"; and if that is referring to the small guns placed outside the main turrets, they are attached there for solely training proposes (when the turret crew is practicing, instead of firing the main guns, these attached guns would be fired instead), at least that's a likely explanation.

These ones is what I mean.

[Project45_Opytny]

3 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

These ones is what I mean.

Then check "Animated small objects"?

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

On 10/12/2023 at 9:13 AM, tm63au said:

Just wondering this ship that in this salvage event the Famous OP ship that is no longer available ? its on the " never to be sold again List " 

I think Jean Bart and Bourgogne is considered the strong but not that OP French BBs. Dont have Bourgogne but I have the JB and I always have great fun games in her and I always make a great profit. So, I think those 2 values are more OP than the overall performance and stats of the ship.

Too bad Champagne was the set ship for this. If you could choose freely between ALL T8 Premiums (like you can if you own Champagne before), then I would consider finishing this but now its a hard pass, not worth it. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

1 hour ago, Project45_Opytny said:

Then check "Animated small objects"?

Well I'll be damned. That did the trick, cheers! They seem to have a mind of their own now, rotating and pointing every which way.

As for the Champagne though, I don't think I have any need for a near identical clone of the Gascogne, though. I know I could currently get it for a massive stack of resources and 1500 doubloons, but... I just don't see the need why I should do that. I'd maybe feel different about it if I didn't already have the Gascogne.

[Wolfswetpaws]

On 10/12/2023 at 3:20 AM, Zaydin said:

Champagne only was put on sale once IIRC because no one really bought it. Either because it was just rather boring or because there were better/more interesting premiums to buy at the time.

If I remember correctly, the Champagne was (once upon a time) available in the premium shop and the armory.
As you mentioned, apparent lack of interest eventually led to her being pulled from sale.

I know that when I look at premium French ship I want to see plenty of guns and some torpedoes would be nice to accompany them.
I didn't "pop the cork" on the Champagne back then, and I'm still not seeing much incentive now.

I do have the Jean Bart, the Alsace, the Richelieu and the Bourgogne in my Port.
I enjoy sailing each of them.

My quibble with the République is that her forward firepower is reduced because of her turret layout. 
The Champagne and the Gascogne also have 1 main-gun turret in the bow and 1 main-gun turret in the aft.
The Normandie, along with the Lyon, has a similar problem
I feel that if one is far enough away to comfortably expose one's broadside (in order to bring all main-guns to bear upon a target) then the French main-gun dispersion is likely to cause all of the projectiles in a salvo to miss the target.  Which is less than ideal, in my opinion.

 

[Zaydin]

7 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Well I'll be damned. That did the trick, cheers! They seem to have a mind of their own now, rotating and pointing every which way.

As for the Champagne though, I don't think I have any need for a near identical clone of the Gascogne, though. I know I could currently get it for a massive stack of resources and 1500 doubloons, but... I just don't see the need why I should do that. I'd maybe feel different about it if I didn't already have the Gascogne.

I think the Flandre is more of a clone of Gascogne than Champagne is. Champagne is a long ranged sniper while Gascogne is a more close in fighter. Can't say for sure since I don't own her.

[Nevermore135]

5 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

If I remember correctly, the Champagne was (once upon a time) available in the premium shop and the armory.
As you mentioned, apparent lack of interest eventually led to her being pulled from sale.

Champagne has been available for sale a few times, but only as a short-term “limited time” offer (usually a week or two). She was available in June 2020 for two weeks, and then returned for a single week in October of that year. She has made a few brief reappearances since then, but never for an extended period of time.

It’s a deliberate attempt to create artificial scarcity more than a reflection of customer demand (or lack thereof), and this isn’t the only ship that WG has used this approach to boost sales of. FOMO is a powerful motivator to spend money.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Nevermore135