More Bot Rigging

[Guest]

Another game where the enemy BOTS swept in and totally dominated our teams BOTs to the point of a 7 to 0 kill ratio. They just killed our bots quickly and efficiently as our bots did nothing. This is not random or occasional, it happens often. WG is tipping their hat as to how they mess with RNG in these games. How far up the line does this RNG weighting go? You watch as their bot cruisers face ours...their launch torps...ours, for some reason do not. So of course they get the kills. Why does one side launch torps and the other just sails in a straight line, doesn't launch torps and shoots at the ocean?

Edited October 7, 2023 by Kalishnikat

[Ensign Cthulhu]

So what were the humans doing in all this? 

It's not happening often to me, I can tell you that. 

[Type_93]

Pretty sure bots on the player team are dumbed down so that the players have to carry the win. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

24 minutes ago, Type_93 said:

Pretty sure bots on the player team are dumbed down so that the players have to carry the win. 

There's been cases where in coop the bot team has brutally defeated the player team once the players have been sunk and only the bots remain.

At least that's what a friend told me!

[YouSatInGum]

11 hours ago, Kalishnikat said:

Another game where the enemy BOTS swept in and totally dominated our teams BOTs to the point of a 7 to 0 kill ratio. They just killed our bots quickly and efficiently as our bots did nothing. This is not random or occasional, it happens often. WG is tipping their hat as to how they mess with RNG in these games. How far up the line does this RNG weighting go? You watch as their bot cruisers face ours...their launch torps...ours, for some reason do not. So of course they get the kills. Why does one side launch torps and the other just sails in a straight line, doesn't launch torps and shoots at the ocean?

First of all....tell us the game mode you are referring to.  I'm assuming COOP but I guess you could be talking operations or low tier random...

 

Now for COOP, yes the red bots are set to a high difficulty level.  As said above it's up to the player to provide the difference.  Actually my most favorite COOP games are the ones with 100% bots except for me.  Those have the highest difficujlty level, but I'll admit that I still have to really screw up to lose.

 

1 hour ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

So what were the humans doing in all this? 

Waah waah waah, RNG. Waah Waah waah rigging. Always something to blame other than yourself. 

It's not happening often to me, I can tell you that. 

Would you really talk to someone this way in real life?  

[Admiral_Karasu]

5 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

First of all....tell us the game mode you are referring to.  I'm assuming COOP but I guess you could be talking operations or low tier random...

 

Now for COOP, yes the red bots are set to a high difficulty level.  As said above it's up to the player to provide the difference.  Actually my most favorite COOP games are the ones with 100% bots except for me.  Those have the highest difficujlty level, but I'll admit that I still have to really screw up to lose.

 

My problem is that they have access to server information, at least I assume that because they seem to know your location at all times. It's somewhat annoying how they all home in on your position. Of course, if you are damage farming I guess it makes sense and makes things easier in that sense, but it kind of kills the tactics making coop resemble the randoms a little too much...

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

So what were the humans doing in all this? 

Waah waah waah, RNG. Waah Waah waah rigging. Always something to blame other than yourself. 

It's not happening often to me, I can tell you that. 

Do you play low tier? This phenomenon has been seen by others who have talked about it here in this forum. Not "crying" because it happens as much to my team as it does to the other team. In low tier randoms, where there are maybe 3 humans per side, one side's bots often dominate the other sides. One side seems to have the asymmetric programmed bots while the other side had normal dumb bots. Not "blaming" anyone. Why do you find it necessary to take an oppositional stance? 

As to the "humans" our team had 3 humans and we got 4 kills, I got 3 of them. Meanwhile like I said their BOTs wiped ours out in short order making for a very lopsided game. 

[YouSatInGum]

1 minute ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

My problem is that they have access to server information, at least I assume that because they seem to know your location at all times. It's somewhat annoying how they all home in on your position. Of course, if you are damage farming I guess it makes sense and makes things easier in that sense, but it kind of kills the tactics making coop resemble the randoms a little too much...

Yes, the bots do cheat.  You can tell that they do respond to you when you are dark.

 

But would you expect anything different from WG?

 

This is a long standing problem is AI programming.  Making an AI perform as a well as a human while having the same information as the human player is really hard and challenging work.  So a common shortcut in the game industry is to give the AI an information advantage so that the bot can perform well enough.

Would you not expect WG to take a shortcut that is common the game industry?

 

Personally I think we should just have a hard coop mode that has 2 or 3 bots per player.... asymmetric what a trial step for sometime in that direction....but we'll have to see if they act on its popularity.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

12 hours ago, Kalishnikat said:

Another game where the enemy BOTS swept in and totally dominated our teams BOTs to the point of a 7 to 0 kill ratio. They just killed our bots quickly and efficiently as our bots did nothing. This is not random or occasional, it happens often. WG is tipping their hat as to how they mess with RNG in these games. How far up the line does this RNG weighting go? You watch as their bot cruisers face ours...their launch torps...ours, for some reason do not. So of course they get the kills. Why does one side launch torps and the other just sails in a straight line, doesn't launch torps and shoots at the ocean?

This is a free2play / pay2win game with significant elements of gambling as the core monetization practice...

...and you are surprised that WG tilts the game in their favor?

The problem is your expectations here...

Of course WG is not playing fair. Welcome to the game.

[AdmiralThunder]

In Co-op I love that scenario. Gives me a chance for big numbers. The best Co-op games are those with mostly or all bots but you.

In Randoms it is a bit more challenging simply because of the sheer # of bots you can end up facing which can slowly overwhelm you or delay you long enough they win on pts before you can kill them all. The loses I have had in Randoms when my friendly bots go down generally are point loses where I run out of time. If I have gone down in those games it is a red human player getting me.

And, yes, it does seem like one side gets better ones BUT that can also come down to whichever side loses bots 1st ends up causing a domino effect. It is why I always tell my team to stay back and not yolo in, focus the human reds over the bots, and try and help keep our bots alive as long as possible. The team that does that wins most of the time from what I see. Sadly, asking for this seldom seems to work at low tiers as everyone yolo's in and tries for the easy bot kills thinking they are safe.

Edited October 7, 2023 by AdmiralThunder

[Type_93]

16 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

This is a free2play / pay2win game with significant elements of gambling as the core monetization practice...

...and you are surprised that WG tilts the game in their favor?

The problem is your expectations here...

Of course WG is not playing fair. Welcome to the game.

You guys read into things that aren’t there. There isn’t some big conspiracy at WG to rig bots. Bots in co-op are programmed to help players learn how to play. 

[Col_NASTY]

Waiting for @YouSatInGum to bring back his avatar so I can stare at it again. 

 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

27 minutes ago, Type_93 said:

You guys read into things that aren’t there. There isn’t some big conspiracy at WG to rig bots. Bots in co-op are programmed to help players learn how to play. 

The history of gaming including gambling elements demonstrates conclusively that non-tilted games are the exception...not the rule.

[Type_93]

1 minute ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

The history of gaming including gambling elements demonstrates conclusively that non-tilted games are the exception...not the rule.

I just don’t see anything negative about “gambling elements”. If a player wastes their income on in game purchases, that’s on the player, not WG. I enjoy gambling but never go over my spending limits in my budget. I tend to think that most players who demonize WG for their monetization efforts are just salty individuals who can’t afford to buy loot boxes or bundles. They have the mindset of “If I can’t have it, then no one should.”

[Admiral_Karasu]

51 minutes ago, Type_93 said:

You guys read into things that aren’t there. There isn’t some big conspiracy at WG to rig bots. Bots in co-op are programmed to help players learn how to play. 

Perhaps it's the bots that are conspiring 🤖🤖🤖.... and not WG themselves..

[Type_93]

10 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Perhaps it's the bots that are conspiring 🤖🤖🤖.... and not WG themselves..

Illuminati bots?

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

44 minutes ago, Type_93 said:

I just don’t see anything negative about “gambling elements”. If a player wastes their income on in game purchases, that’s on the player, not WG. I enjoy gambling but never go over my spending limits in my budget. I tend to think that most players who demonize WG for their monetization efforts are just salty individuals who can’t afford to buy loot boxes or bundles. They have the mindset of “If I can’t have it, then no one should.”

Not my point at all, so nice strawman.

My point still stands, games with gambling elements have historically been tilted in favor of the house winning.

As you say, if that's ok with you...just deal with it.

My point is for people throwing a fit expecting WG to provide an equitable game experience...that it will never happen. That isn't the type of business WG is running here or in their other titles.

[clammboy]

29 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Not my point at all, so nice strawman.

My point still stands, games with gambling elements have historically been tilted in favor of the house winning.

As you say, if that's ok with you...just deal with it.

My point is for people throwing a fit expecting WG to provide an equitable game experience...that it will never happen. That isn't the type of business WG is running here or in their other titles.

Everything involving gambling is tilted in favor of the house winning but most gamblers know this already. Everybody is looking for the big payout but they dont come that often. They usually give you just enough to keep you coming back and then the house is taking the rest. 

[Guest]

This is NOT in coop. It's in randoms. Each team has like 3 humans and 9 BOTS. One side's BOTs almost always dominate the other side's BOTs to the point where it's not even close ( 7 to 0, 8 to 1 kill ratios) One side has bots that hit what they shoot at and torp the enemy and use WASD while the other side's BOTs shoot the open ocean and somehow forget to use their torps and sail at a steady pace in a straight line. Whether your team gets smart BOTs or dumb BOTs seems entirely random. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Kalishnikat

[Wolfswetpaws]

21 hours ago, Kalishnikat said:

Another game where the enemy BOTS swept in and totally dominated our teams BOTs to the point of a 7 to 0 kill ratio. They just killed our bots quickly and efficiently as our bots did nothing. This is not random or occasional, it happens often. WG is tipping their hat as to how they mess with RNG in these games. How far up the line does this RNG weighting go? You watch as their bot cruisers face ours...their launch torps...ours, for some reason do not. So of course they get the kills. Why does one side launch torps and the other just sails in a straight line, doesn't launch torps and shoots at the ocean?

When I occasionally play in low-tier random battles and there are a significant number of 'Bots on each team, I try to sink the red-team's 'Bots early and often.
That way the numerical advantage tilts in favor of my green-team.
And the green-team 'Bots will follow their programming.  So, might as well help them do their job.

Never hang-back.
Play like a reckless Co-op main going wild.  🙂 

[clammboy]

18 minutes ago, Kalishnikat said:

This is NOT in coop. It's in randoms. Each team has like 3 humans and 9 BOTS. One side's BOTs almost always dominate the other side's BOTs to the point where it's not even close ( 7 to 0, 8 to 1 kill ratios) One side has bots that hit what they shoot at and torp the enemy and use WASD while the other side's BOTs shoot the open ocean and somehow forget to use their torps and sail at a steady pace in a straight line. Whether your team gets smart BOTs or dumb BOTs seems entirely random. 

I am not trying to be a wise guy here but I love to play the Agincourt the tier 5 BB. I have a lot of games were both sides will have 5 bots I just dont really ever see this problem. Never noticed a smart bot or a stupid bot. I have seen bots have nice dodges or send out some good torps but for the most part there all stupid. I really have never seen this problem. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by clammboy

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

3 hours ago, Kalishnikat said:

This is NOT in coop. It's in randoms. Each team has like 3 humans and 9 BOTS. One side's BOTs almost always dominate the other side's BOTs to the point where it's not even close ( 7 to 0, 8 to 1 kill ratios) One side has bots that hit what they shoot at and torp the enemy and use WASD while the other side's BOTs shoot the open ocean and somehow forget to use their torps and sail at a steady pace in a straight line. Whether your team gets smart BOTs or dumb BOTs seems entirely random. 

And your point is...what, exactly?

Yes. WG does not provide equitable battle experiences in randoms. We already know this. You should too.

There has never been a strong sense of a need to actually balance the game to be fair and just to everyone.

It's a free2play / pay2win title, man. If this really bothers you, the game is not going to make you happy.

Me? I play it because its a silly arcade with good meme value.

This is not and will never be an esports type game.

Edited October 8, 2023 by Daniel_Allan_Clark

[YouSatInGum]

13 hours ago, Col_NASTY said:

Waiting for @YouSatInGum to bring back his avatar so I can stare at it again. 

 

this one?

[Col_NASTY]

7 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

this one?

Yeppers 😛    

[AdmiralThunder]

15 hours ago, Kalishnikat said:

This is NOT in coop. It's in randoms. Each team has like 3 humans and 9 BOTS. One side's BOTs almost always dominate the other side's BOTs to the point where it's not even close ( 7 to 0, 8 to 1 kill ratios) One side has bots that hit what they shoot at and torp the enemy and use WASD while the other side's BOTs shoot the open ocean and somehow forget to use their torps and sail at a steady pace in a straight line. Whether your team gets smart BOTs or dumb BOTs seems entirely random. 

Dude relax. This is just a game. Bots are Bots be it Co-op, Randoms, or Op's. There is some level differences between ones you see but they are all pretty easy to deal with. The real issue in Randoms is when the reds have a lot of bots left that can overwhelm you and delay you so they win on pts and/or also have a human player or 2 left that lets the bots distract you while they take you out. We have all been there and dealt with it. Like I said in another post you should always focus the human players first. They are the threat not the bots. It can be a lot of fun playing games with a lot of Bots even in Randoms and it is not the end of the world when you get down. Just pull your man pants on and try. You might surprise yourself.