The PPO is now post PPO

[Anonymous]

Yeah, folks, the value of a discussion  forum, here in good evidence. After a chat with  @Admiral_Karasu, who advised caution, and with some research mainly provided by @HogHammer, the results are in. The CMs likely did not know what they were talking about when they said we could copy forum content for the site. Their word is also not a legal document. Here, in brief, but HogHammer  may divulge the details as he likes: Copyright stays with the author, even when articles are posted in a forum on the net (except that you can copy tiny snippets of a certain maximum length). So unless WG has been granted the authors' copyright, no site can use the material they have, even if it means it will otherwise be lost forever.

Therefore, unless a merry bunch of original authors comes a-prancing into our forums, and unless WG does hold copyright, which is unlikely, we cannot use squat of that massive trove of material WG is about to lose for all time. What a dreadful, dreadful waste!

So here's to all those original authors, whose toil may now be for naught.

A sad day, where the giant fails the small.

And yet! one battle will yet be won, by a little white mouse.

Prove us wrong, WG.

And praise the mouse.

[AdmiralMcintosh]

Really? that's a darn shame that we will lose all those reviews.

[AdmiralMcintosh]

I was going to bring some more reviews... guess not.

[I_cant_Swim_]

7 minutes ago, AdmiralMcintosh said:

that's a darn shame that we will lose all those reviews

it truly is.

[AdmiralMcintosh]

Might Have to make my own then...

[HogHammer]

@AdmiralMcintoshif you wrote the review it is YOURS.  You can do as you please if you are the original author of the review.  You own it!

As for the other reviews or guides, we will have to contact the original author and (1) ask them to post it here or (2) get written permission.  In some cases, the authors have left the game and we will not be able to contact them.  If that is the case, our only solution is a rewrite of its general intent which will take some time and expertise.   If, however, they are still active we can (cross our fingers) contact them in-game and have them post here or again, get written permission.  Lots of work, but I think we can get it done.

 

[I_cant_Swim_]

@AdmiralMcintosh You are right. In a day or two, WG will likely confirm what we suspect. So, our most constructive option is to mentally assimilate the knowledge of said texts,  and at some point, produce our own. somewhat like throwing the tires away, to reinvent the wheel.

 

And, as @HogHammer states, to attempt to find some of those authors. I shall endeavor to do so.

[Admiral_Karasu]

As far as I know, downloading the content for private use is still legal under copyright law (though I'm not an expert). As long as you don't reproduce or repost the material, that is. Technically then, I think it's possible for us to download any information there and store it privately. Not quite as good as reposting it publicly, of course, but in the event that we later get the approval, we could then reproduce it on this forum. We just have to careful to make sure we don't get any such downloaded information mixed up with our own files.

Again, I'm not sure if anyone has any real idea about the scope of the material in question. Some of the gameplay related information and technical information is likely out of date, but a lot of the information can still have value, especially if it is relevant today, or of historical interest.

[I_cant_Swim_]

4 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

, downloading the content for private use is still legal under copyright law

The CMs told me this as well. But i don't know for sure. I think, @Admiral_Karasu, if we could establish that this is legally sound, it would be the most productive approach.

Even the outdated stuff may have sufficient value to serve as a primer.

[Sailor_Moon]

Just for the record, I have virtually all of the LWM reviews to date currently on the WoWs Discord. Those reviews were archived via the Wayback machine. Is it Ok to have those posted on the WoWs Discord and potentially here? To my knowledge, the reviews are still owned by Mouse, so.....I don't see any legal ramifications here, hopefully 😛

[HogHammer]

@Admiral_KarasuEven if the said company said, "Sure, copy and publish away," by law, we would still be required to get permission from the original author.  For example, if a famous author wrote an article for a website or magazine, and we would like to publish it, to do so, we would have to contact the author.  Neither the website nor the magazine has the legal right unless, of course, it is a syndicated piece.  In that case, you have to be part of the syndicated network.

Having LWM on board is one hurdle DevStrike has cleared as far as previous content.  As you mention, "the scope of material" is a very valid point.  There is a lot.  And as you say, it may be old or out-of-date based on the current game, but it may still be valuable in certain aspects.  Items as such, of course, need to be rewritten - perhaps by the original author or DevStrike staff member or perhaps a member of the forum like you.  

[Admiral_Karasu]

6 minutes ago, Sailor_Moon said:

Just for the record, I have virtually all of the LWM reviews to date currently on the WoWs Discord. Those reviews were archived via the Wayback machine. Is it Ok to have those posted on the WoWs Discord and potentially here? To my knowledge, the reviews are still owned by Mouse, so.....I don't see any legal ramifications here, hopefully 😛

Isn't LWM on this though?

1 minute ago, HogHammer said:

@Admiral_KarasuEven if the said company said, "Sure, copy and publish away," by law, we would still be required to get permission from the original author.  For example, if a famous author wrote an article for a website or magazine, and we would like to publish it, to do so, we would have to contact the author.  Neither the website nor the magazine has the legal right unless, of course, it is a syndicated piece.  In that case, you have to be part of the syndicated network.

Having LWM on board is one hurdle DevStrike has cleared as far as previous content.  As you mention, "the scope of material" is a very valid point.  There is a lot.  And as you say, it may be old or out-of-date based on the current game, but it may still be valuable in certain aspects.  Items as such, of course, need to be rewritten - perhaps by the original author or DevStrike staff member or perhaps a member of the forum like you.  

Yes, I understand that. Only the legal copyright holder can approve republishing any information. One factor is if 'user generated content' on a WG forum gives WG any copyrights or not. Then there are the people who originally wrote the post and posted them. I just think it's legally permitted to download for private use, just not to republish it anywhere on the net.

[Sailor_Moon]

Just now, Admiral_Karasu said:

Isn't LWM on this though?

Yes, but at the time of the shutdown announcement, this forum did not exist. So I figured I might as well save what I could by Waybacking all the reviews and whatnot, and they currently sit on a thread in WoWs Discord.

[Admiral_Karasu]

1 minute ago, Sailor_Moon said:

Yes, but at the time of the shutdown announcement, this forum did not exist. So I figured I might as well save what I could by Waybacking all the reviews and whatnot, and they currently sit on a thread in WoWs Discord.

Got it, thanks.

[HogHammer]

Yes, LWM is on board.  If it is "user-generated" (the author) holds all the cards - be it the old forum, Facebook, even Discord, etc.    If WG generated the content, then it is clearly theirs.  

[Ensign Cthulhu]

For the record:

Anything I posted on the old forums is fair game to repost here, with attribution.

[I_cant_Swim_]

@Sailor_MoonPlease get clearance from LWM for keeping them on Discord, so you don't run into any trouble.

Better still, get clearance from her to keep them there until she has finished setting up here, then delete the discord stuff. hahahahahaaaaa. <--That was an evil laugh.Ok, ignore this bit.

@LittleWhiteMouseis ok with putting up some of her works here. It will be our privilege and honor to host them for as long as we can, and as long as she wishes.

 

[Sailor_Moon]

2 minutes ago, I_cant_Swim_ said:

@Sailor_MoonPlease get clearance from LWM for keeping them on Discord, so you don't run into any trouble.

Better still, get clearance from her to keep them there until she has finished setting up here, then delete the discord stuff. hahahahahaaaaa. <--That was an evil laugh.Ok, ignore this bit.

@LittleWhiteMouseis ok with putting up some of her works here. It will be our privilege and honor to host them for as long as we can, and as long as she wishes.

 

I did already, I told her as I was doing the Waybacking (archiving). At any rate, it's all the hard work done, you can just re-post them from the Discord thread! 🙂

[Sailor_Moon]

4 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

For the record:

Anything I posted on the old forums is fair game to repost here, with attribution.

Same! ~-~°(◠.◠)°v~-~

[LittleWhiteMouse]

I'm fine with my Premium Ship Reviews being spread far and wide with the caveat that it cannot be hidden behind a paywall or monetized without my specific consent.

[MBT808]

I can share my light cruiser proposal then, should be fun. I'm currently almost finished reworking it, so It can be saved here for people to view and enjoy(and disagree with if they choose).

[SureBridge]

18 minutes ago, LittleWhiteMouse said:

I'm fine with my Premium Ship Reviews being spread far and wide with the caveat that it cannot be hidden behind a paywall or monetized without my specific consent.

YAY! So much work (and for some so much entertaining sarcasm). I'm sure that a lot of folks read the reviews as a baseline for "do I want this ship" and the reviews have enough depth that it generally also answers "and for this one that she pans, will I have fun playing it anyway"?

The answer to the second question is why I have a lot of French DD's (because they aren't terrible). 

[Admiral_Karasu]

10 hours ago, SureBridge said:

YAY! So much work (and for some so much entertaining sarcasm). I'm sure that a lot of folks read the reviews as a baseline for "do I want this ship" and the reviews have enough depth that it generally also answers "and for this one that she pans, will I have fun playing it anyway"?

The answer to the second question is why I have a lot of French DD's (because they aren't terrible). 

Basically, when reading any review there's three questions I have. 1) Do I want this ship; 2) Will I be able to play this ship, and 3) What I need to know if I decide to get this ship. In my experience @LittleWhiteMouse reviews have been the among the best if not the best to cover these questions for me. Many thanks for all of them! 🫡

[Wolfswetpaws]

If people find posts of mine on the WOWs forums that they want to archive here for reference purposes, I'm okay with that.

[Admiral_Karasu]

Has anyone thought about what is the best technical procedure for downloading/copying/uploading any information to be retrieved?