A suggestion for DD mains

[SunkCostFallacy]

I'll prefix this with the fact that not all DD drivers do this. But enough do that I face this problem at least once a day on those days I'm playing BBs. Probably nobody on the forum does this ... but perhaps this post will lurk around the net long enough for some DD driver to notice it and it might help.

I just had a COOP match on the Haven map. I spawned in, with my GK, on the east flank (in F10) with a DD and a cruiser. As generally happens, the three of us moved north-west to pass between the islands at E8. There's a screen shot I got off the web of the map at the end of the post so you can see where the coords are 🙂 That went as per normal and we started firing at the red bots as per normal.

Then, as soon as he got into the C cap the DD smoked up. Fair enough. Except for a couple of things ... he hadn't been going very fast so he wasn't very far in front of me, and he immediately turned to get all his guns to bear on the bots, which placed him directly in my path.

Because I was paying attention I saw what he'd done, and I immediately went hard to port and managed *just barely* to avoid hitting him. If I had been concentrating on firing wouldn't have noticed what he'd done and I would have speared him amidships and pushed him right out of his smoke, thereby exposing his broadside to all the bots.

So the suggestion:  You guys must know that a BB at full speed can't maneuver that quickly ... so please consider the ships behind you BEFORE you park in the smoke and turn to be the widest possible obstacle.

I genuinely do NOT want to hit you, and push you out of your smoke, and ruin your game ... but you have to give me a chance to avoid you.

 

[MBT808]

I mean, who really cares what any one does in Co-op. In Co-op no one gives a damn and most people are just playing on Auto pilot. Now if we were talking about Randoms, Ranked, or Clan battles, then I agree DDs should be very conscious about what their doing.

Edited September 22, 2023 by MBT808

[Verytis]

If you just shoved him to the bottom of the ocean, he'd have figured out faster than the time you took to post this.

You get more fish for yourself too.

Edit: Now do it in a Patrie.

Edited September 22, 2023 by Verytis

[Type_93]

Doing that in randoms is frowned upon, but in co-op it’s whatever.  I know some good players here who are co-op only so I can understand the frustration. 

[Asym]

"all for one and one for all - and, more for me..."

[Wulf_Ace]

why would someone even use smoke in CO OP hahah.

but really, Co op, who cares

[Kynami]

24 minutes ago, Wulf_Ace said:

why would someone even use smoke in CO OP hahah.

Well when asymmetric was around smoke was a very powerful tool for *not* getting yeeted immediately by cross map fire in a Co-op game environment.

When Concealed Maneuvers was throwing bots into the queue to get the games going fast yet again smoke was a rather useful tool in avoiding attacks from bots with better aim than most actual players. Because I'll simply say watching a bot CV land three strikes in a row on a juking and jiving French DD that is going faster than 50 knots and doing its outright best to try avoiding being hit and still ends up being repeatedly hit is a bit of a wake-up. And yet it does so much worse against destroyers with smoke that it must "obey" vision rules for.

[Wulf_Ace]

1 hour ago, Kynami said:

Well when asymmetric was around smoke was a very powerful tool for *not* getting yeeted immediately by cross map fire in a Co-op game environment.

When Concealed Maneuvers was throwing bots into the queue to get the games going fast yet again smoke was a rather useful tool in avoiding attacks from bots with better aim than most actual players. Because I'll simply say watching a bot CV land three strikes in a row on a juking and jiving French DD that is going faster than 50 knots and doing its outright best to try avoiding being hit and still ends up being repeatedly hit is a bit of a wake-up. And yet it does so much worse against destroyers with smoke that it must "obey" vision rules for.

yap this prove bots are OP for current playerbase

NERF needed!

[Asym]

11 hours ago, Wulf_Ace said:

why would someone even use smoke in CO OP hahah.

but really, Co op, who cares

Ah, those of us who care, give a crap and are PVE mains.... 

We could, if you want, division with you every match in Randoms and "help" you be better - everyday - all day - all of the time....  Or, do you want us to stay in COOP???

[Ensign Cthulhu]

I've been the push-ee and occasionally the pusher. If the latter, I at least try to say sorry in chat (if all my fingers aren't busy with more critical things). If the former, I always give the bigger ship a compliment for good manners if THEY apologize. Even something as simple as "oops sry". 

11 hours ago, Wulf_Ace said:

why would someone even use smoke in CO OP hahah.

but really, Co op, who cares

We should arrange for you to be confined to co-op for a whole patch so that you are obliged to walk a mile in our shoes. Then you'll see just how much we care. 😛

[AlphaSierra]

I'm sure no one here would ever do that  but, If your BB is within 5nm of My DD guess who is getting a plays poorly.  Even in coop if you are capping with a BB or a CG you don't know how to play your ship.  Back capping is another story.  But entering a DD's defensive smoke??? that is the ultimate sin under ANY circumstance. 

[SunkCostFallacy]

6 hours ago, AlphaSierra said:

I'm sure no one here would ever do that  but, If your BB is within 5nm of My DD guess who is getting a plays poorly.  Even in coop if you are capping with a BB or a CG you don't know how to play your ship.  Back capping is another story.  But entering a DD's defensive smoke??? that is the ultimate sin under ANY circumstance. 

Welcome to DevStrike.

Apparently you don't play a lot of COOP or you'd know that the red bots head into to that cap 9 times out of 10.

So unless we want to spend the entire match with islands blocking our shots, everyone who spawns at that spawn location enters that cap circle. We're not there to cap it ... we're there to get shots at the bots.

The typical pathing that players from that spawn will take in the vast majority of matches will be to enter the C cap, kill the bots that spawned around B6/B7, then head to the A cap to get shots at the CV (if there is one) which will generally be in the northwest corner of the map or perhaps a bit further south. Capping, if it happens, is incidental or the result of an event that calls for captures (in which case one or more players will stay in the C cap to get the capture rather than pursue more damage).

Another aspect of COOP you might not be aware of ... the bots like to focus fire. So the first target that they start shooting at will be the target that they tend to keep shooting at. DD COOP players are aware of this, so the good ones tend to advance slowly to ensure that someone besides them gets the aggro (so to speak) and that means that they are often only a few hundred meters away from a larger ship when the bots detect that larger ship. This is, no doubt, why the DD in question was moving so slowly.

As for back capping ... COOP matches typically last between 5 and 8 minutes, quite often they are over in 4 minutes if there are a lot of DDs, so there's rarely time for that sort of thing.

 

 

[Wolfswetpaws]

7 hours ago, AlphaSierra said:

I'm sure no one here would ever do that  but, If your BB is within 5nm of My DD guess who is getting a plays poorly.  Even in coop if you are capping with a BB or a CG you don't know how to play your ship.  Back capping is another story.  But entering a DD's defensive smoke??? that is the ultimate sin under ANY circumstance. 

I politely disagree.
I sometimes have to pass through a DD's smoke while enroute to the targets that the DD is failing to sink by parking in a smokescreen and waiting for the red-team to come to them.
This is especially the case when they smoke-up and park near a choke-point between two islands.  (Creating the risk of a traffic-jam or accidental collision.)

While your concept may have occasional merit in a random battle, it falls flat in the feeding-frenzy of a Co-op battle environment, in my opinion.

Smokescreens are useful to help manage one's detection status. 
But, they're not a magic shield to prevent players from being hit by ordnance or being rammed.
 

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, SunkCostFallacy said:

COOP matches typically last between 5 and 8 minutes, quite often they are over in 4 minutes

Yep.
I begin to wonder if my team-mates are "slackers" if they haven't sunk all the 'Bot ships within 7 minutes.


 

[Yedwy]

On 9/22/2023 at 8:10 AM, Wulf_Ace said:

why would someone even use smoke in CO OP hahah.

but really, Co op, who cares

Because when you farm hits its a good idea to spam from smoke so that bot cruiser on your flank doesnt cut your farming time by factor of 5 by sinking you? Also in say yolo emeilio its a good idea to use the engine smoke when going for the kill farming so the f lase accurate bots dont kill your torp tubes before yoh had the chance to drop at least one salvo feom each of them

[AlphaSierra]

On 9/22/2023 at 7:25 PM, SunkCostFallacy said:

Welcome to DevStrike.

Apparently you don't play a lot of COOP or you'd know that the red bots head into to that cap 9 times out of 10.

So unless we want to spend the entire match with islands blocking our shots, everyone who spawns at that spawn location enters that cap circle. We're not there to cap it ... we're there to get shots at the bots.

The typical pathing that players from that spawn will take in the vast majority of matches will be to enter the C cap, kill the bots that spawned around B6/B7, then head to the A cap to get shots at the CV (if there is one) which will generally be in the northwest corner of the map or perhaps a bit further south. Capping, if it happens, is incidental or the result of an event that calls for captures (in which case one or more players will stay in the C cap to get the capture rather than pursue more damage).

Another aspect of COOP you might not be aware of ... the bots like to focus fire. So the first target that they start shooting at will be the target that they tend to keep shooting at. DD COOP players are aware of this, so the good ones tend to advance slowly to ensure that someone besides them gets the aggro (so to speak) and that means that they are often only a few hundred meters away from a larger ship when the bots detect that larger ship. This is, no doubt, why the DD in question was moving so slowly.

As for back capping ... COOP matches typically last between 5 and 8 minutes, quite often they are over in 4 minutes if there are a lot of DDs, so there's rarely time for that sort of thing.

 

 

I only play Coop.  Thousands of "battles".  I still have time to play the ship as it was designed.  Excuses are like....

[SunkCostFallacy]

1 hour ago, AlphaSierra said:

I only play Coop.  Thousands of "battles".  I still have time to play the ship as it was designed.  Excuses are like....

I have over 16 thousand matches in COOP.

If you really do have "Thousands of battles" in COOP then your original comment is even more bizarre than it appeared at first reading ... because you'd KNOW how that map plays out, and you'd know why everyone enters the caps.

Both of your comments lead one to the conclusion that you clearly don't.

I'll happily continue this dialog if you want ... but I have to tell you that unless you can substantiate your rather ill-informed comments then you're not going to convince anyone of anything.