Mogami gun/commander build.

[Kaiserliche_garde]

Which side of the Mogami main gun choice do you use?

[Kaiserliche_garde]

This was my first ever poll between devstrike and the old forums.  Forgive me for derping and putting a duplicate title and question.

[Nevermore135]

I prefer the 155mm build with IFHE for more DPM and a more unique experience. 31mm (vs. 30mm) base HE pen gives 38mm (vs. 37mm) pen with IFHE, which allows you to pen some key armor thresholds such as USN BB deck armor. Mogami is the only CL in the game that has this characteristic.

However, the 203mm option is perfectly viable and in many ways more comfortable, as the CA guns have better turret traverse and are more accurate. Mogami is the only ship in the game that has two different main battery dispersion patterns: the 203mm guns use DD dispersion like all Japanese 203mm, while the 155mm guns share the same ubiquitous CL/CA dispersion found on IJN CLs and most other cruisers in the game. However, if you choose to go with this option I would recommend not taking the DE skill. It only provides +1% fire chance on top of your base 17%, so the relative benefit is quite low for two skill points. This holds true for most CAs in the game: despite what the game recommends it is typically a poor choice for heavy cruisers and is better suited for CLs with lower base fire chance where the skill makes an appreciable difference (especially on top of IFHE).

The 203mm option also has the benefit of not requiring a special build to be most effective. It’s the better option for players who intend to move their captain on to Ibuki after the grind is complete.

 

Edited September 18, 2023 by Nevermore135

[MidnightPhoenix07]

If you’re building a captain just for Mogami, 155s with IFHE. 155 Mogami was one of the cruisers that absolutely came out ahead in the IFHE rework.

If you’re taking the captain up the line, you could use the 203s with the same performance (and captain) as the rest of the line. Or you could respec going to Mogami and again to Ibuki if you want to grind Mogami with IFHE.

There’s also the option to play with the 155s, but use a DE build from the rest of the line. That’s what I did when grinding it. You lose the 32 and 38 mm HE pen IFHE gives you, but you’re still a good light cruiser and don’t need to spend the ecxp to reset it twice.

Either way, definitely 155s with IFHE when building up a dedicated captain after you unlock Ibuki and move your grind captain up the line. 
 

And bacon. Always bacon. 

[MidnightPhoenix07]

11 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

Mogami is the only CL in the game that has this characteristic.

Actually one of two. Mainz can pen 38 mm as well, because of the German 1/4 pen. 155 Mogami needs IFHE to pen 38 mm, though, which Mainz does not because of the German 1/4 pen. 

[Nevermore135]

23 minutes ago, MidnightPhoenix07 said:

Actually one of two. Mainz can pen 38 mm as well, because of the German 1/4 pen. 155 Mogami needs IFHE to pen 38 mm, though, which Mainz does not because of the German 1/4 pen. 

All German 150mm guns have 38mm base HE pen, including those found on CLs like Nurnberg, certain DDs, and BB secondary guns. That’s not something unique to Mainz.

The unique characteristic I am referring to is 155mm Mogami’s 31mm base HE pen that allows her to pen 38mm if IFHE is chosen. She’s the only CL in the game that taking IFHE has the added value of crossing the 38mm threshold. Omono at tier VII, the only other ship in the game with 155mm main battery guns, has a similarly unique (and advantageous) set of penetration characteristics. Not only can she pen 26mm stock (vs. 25mm for same-tier 152mm guns), but IFHE gives her 32mm of penetration instead of 31mm.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Nevermore135

[Kaiserliche_garde]

So I guess I should have explained a little more.  I was playing Ibuki to clear the award (I don't normally play Ibuki) and it got me thinking about Mogami.  My Ibuki HE shells were constantly shattering and not starting any fires on the main deck of a Pommern, which was incredibly frustrating since I have Demo Expert on the commander, and I don't have a dedicated commander for Mogami yet.  I honestly do not remember how I played Mogami when I was grinding the IJN CA line it was such a long time ago.  I just wanted to see what everyone else does for their Mogami, either guaranteed damage and better rate of fire versus fire chance and slower rate of fire.  I run IFHE on Akizuki, Kitakaze and Harugumo as well as on German battleships, so I'm not completely unfamiliar with IFHE.

[Wolfswetpaws]

Here's my current Mogami build.  Hope it helps or is at least food for thought.

  

Edited to add:  I use the 203mm main-guns.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Wolfswetpaws

[Nevermore135]

1 hour ago, Kaiserliche_garde said:

My Ibuki HE shells were constantly shattering and not starting any fires on the main deck of a Pommern, which was incredibly frustrating since I have Demo Expert on the commander, and I don't have a dedicated commander for Mogami yet.

The thing to keep in mind when comparing IFHE 155mm Mogami to 203mm Mogami is that there isn’t that much difference in HE penetration: 34mm vs. 38mm. The aforementioned 38mm central deck of US BBs is common at high tiers, and US CBs have 36-38mm deck armor. Riga has 35mm deck and upper belt plating. Outside of those few examples, there isn’t much a 155mm IFHE shell will pen that a standard 203mm shell will not. That Pommern would have been shattering your HE regardless.

IMO, the reasons to run the 203mm guns are their accuracy, AP penetration, and faster traverse. 203mm Mogami is also a bit easier to play defensively and go dark if you don’t have good trigger discipline due to the longer reload. If you want to go all-in on consistent DPM or fire-starting, run the 155s and either take or pass on IFHE, respectively.

And one thing that hasn’t been mentioned in this thread in favor of opting for 155mm Mogami: why play 203mm Mogami over Atago? And if you don’t have Atago in your port, why not? 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Nevermore135

[That WoT Player]

2 hours ago, Nevermore135 said:

All German 150mm guns have 38mm base HE pen, including those found on CLs like Nurnberg, certain DDs, and BB secondary guns. That’s not something unique to Mainz.

The unique characteristic I am referring to is 155mm Mogami’s 31mm base HE pen that allows her to pen 38mm if IFHE is chosen. She’s the only CL in the game that taking IFHE has the added value of crossing the 38mm threshold. Omono at tier VII, the only other ship in the game with 155mm main battery guns, has a similarly unique (and advantageous) set of penetration characteristics. Not only can she pen 26mm stock (vs. 25mm for same-tier 152mm guns), but IFHE gives her 32mm of penetration instead of 31mm.

Duguay-Trouin (and Bearn) use 155s instead of 152s; do they have slightly higher HE pen? 
 

3 hours ago, Kaiserliche_garde said:

This was my first ever poll between devstrike and the old forums.  Forgive me for derping and putting a duplicate title and question.

I prefer consistency, and I found the 203s more consistent. Faster shells, more accurate, and with demo expert and both fire signals you get 20% fire chance. 

[Nevermore135]

15 minutes ago, That WoT Player said:

Duguay-Trouin (and Bearn) use 155s instead of 152s; do they have slightly higher HE pen? 

I never realized the former does indeed have 155s, which below tier VIII have 26mm (1/6) HE pen. However, she’s also a tier IV cruiser that can’t see tier VI (outside of a fail division) so that extra 1mm of HE pen doesn’t really mean much. In contrast, Omono gets a lot of value out of that extra mm of pen, being able to pen same tier BBs stock (and high tier BBs with IFHE). 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Nevermore135

[Kynami]

Personally I prefer the 155s with IFHE and that is how I run my Mogami. Yes your chances of setting fires goes way down because of IFHE, but your consistent damage with fifteen guns on mid range targets is very high. Which is excellent for deleting a destroyer somebody else has spotted for your team and still very decent at blasting anything but extremely armored battleships. And even for them you can happily hose down the superstructure for a lot of damage in most cases.

[Kaiserliche_garde]

1 hour ago, Nevermore135 said:

The thing to keep in mind when comparing IFHE 155mm Mogami to 203mm Mogami is that there isn’t that much difference in HE penetration: 34mm vs. 38mm. The aforementioned 38mm central deck of US BBs is common at high tiers, and US CBs have 36-38mm deck armor. Riga has 35mm deck and upper belt plating. Outside of those few examples, there isn’t much a 155mm IFHE shell will pen that a standard 203mm shell will not. That Pommern would have been shattering your HE regardless.

IMO, the reasons to run the 203mm guns are their accuracy, AP penetration, and faster traverse. 203mm Mogami is also a bit easier to play defensively and go dark if you don’t have good trigger discipline due to the longer reload. If you want to go all-in on consistent DPM or fire-starting, run the 155s and either take or pass on IFHE, respectively.

And one thing that hasn’t been mentioned in this thread in favor of opting for 155mm Mogami: why play 203mm Mogami over Atago? And if you don’t have Atago in your port, why not? 

40 minutes ago, That WoT Player said:

I prefer consistency, and I found the 203s more consistent. Faster shells, more accurate, and with demo expert and both fire signals you get 20% fire chance. 

See this is what I was trying to explain, but still did not do a very good job of, which is my fault.  I do not believe the Pommern I was aiming at was running Fire Prevention (I'm pretty sure the back half of his superstructure was on fire) which is what got me thinking about my 18% fire chance Ibuki (DE with no combat signals) compared to the two different builds on Mogami.  Sometimes RNGeesus doesn't like your fires and doesn't give you any and this is the reason why I run IFHE on the IJN gunbotes and German battleships for that guaranteed damage.  I was just baffled by the lack of fires more than anything and I know LittleWhiteMouse told us not to (in fact multiple times) in her IFHE/gun caliber/ship tier post on the old forum, but I was starting to seriously field the possibility of putting IFHE on a 203mm gun.  Sometimes this game makes you think funny things.

[Wulf_Ace]

I still remember my first game in STOCK Mogami I made 7 kills, then I fell in love in this ship.

So only good option is 155 mm guns, you dont need IFHE, fire chance is more important and you can make a lot of fires.

 

[Nevermore135]

10 hours ago, Kaiserliche_garde said:

See this is what I was trying to explain, but still did not do a very good job of, which is my fault.  I do not believe the Pommern I was aiming at was running Fire Prevention (I'm pretty sure the back half of his superstructure was on fire) which is what got me thinking about my 18% fire chance Ibuki (DE with no combat signals) compared to the two different builds on Mogami.  Sometimes RNGeesus doesn't like your fires and doesn't give you any and this is the reason why I run IFHE on the IJN gunbotes and German battleships for that guaranteed damage.  I was just baffled by the lack of fires more than anything and I know LittleWhiteMouse told us not to (in fact multiple times) in her IFHE/gun caliber/ship tier post on the old forum, but I was starting to seriously field the possibility of putting IFHE on a 203mm gun.  Sometimes this game makes you think funny things.

IFHE on standard 203mm guns bumps the HE penetration from 34mm to 40mm. 40mm plating is found on a few cruisers (Petropavlovsk comes to mind) but I’m not aware of any high tier BBs with 40mm decks. It’s also important to consider that 203mm guns will always be able to pen BB extremity plating (32mm max), so IFHE is generally not considered as valuable for CAs vs. CLs. For CLs, the primary value of the skill is being able to pen the important BB extremity thresholds (26mm at tier VI-VII, 32mm at higher tiers). This gives you the ability/option to consistently damage BB hulls (with proper shot placement) when superstructures become saturated. Anything past that is really just a bonus.

The few exceptions to the above rule of thumb are niche situations where it’s possible to pen 50mm of plating. It’s a fairly common armor threshold for better protected BBs and cruisers, so an argument can be made in some cases to take IFHE on ships like Henri IV (40mm base HE pen, 50mm with IFHE) for example. But even then, the fire chance penalty is pretty severe. Being able to pen 50mm stock is actually the characteristic that makes German CA HE a viable threat. Hindenburg and Roon are known as competent HE spammers with nasty AP because of their good ROF and ballistics combined with the fact that their HE shells, while individually weak, are incredibly consistent due to having 51mm of penetration.

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Nevermore135

[Pugilistic]

WG tried desperately for years to force the choice of 203's by giving the 155's glacial turret rotation. I think they gave the 155's a grudging buff a couple years ago. Back then I think they really did not want crossing that significant pen threshold with IFHE light cruiser guns. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by Pugilistic

[Nevermore135]

17 minutes ago, Pugilistic said:

WG tried desperately for years to force the choice of 203's by giving the 155's glacial turret rotation. I think they gave the 155's a small grudging buff a couple years ago. Back then I think they really did not want crossing that significant pen threshold with IFHE light cruiser guns. 

Prior to the IFHE rework, 155mm Mogami had the same 25/32mm HE pen profile as other 6”-armed CLs, regardless of tier. The simultaneous nerfing of IFHE (from a 30% pen buff to 25%) and the buff to tier VIII+ 6” cruiser guns (from 1/6 to 1/5 HE pen) is why Mogami has her unique penetration characteristics.

I’m still surprised we haven’t seen the 155s removed from Mogami and given to one of her sisters as a premium ship (Suyuza is such a ship in WoWs Legends). I wouldn’t even really be opposed to it (I can recognize that it makes the IJN CA grind inconsistent), especially if the 155mm version was made available for coal (we really need a few tier VIII coal ships).

The only reason I can see for the devs to have kept the 155mm option for all this time is that they know it’s much more popular than the 203mm “upgrade” and want to avoid opening that can of worms.

Edited September 19, 2023 by Nevermore135

[Pugilistic]

14 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

Prior to the IFHE rework, 155mm Mogami had the same 25/32mm HE pen profile as other 6”-armed CLs, regardless of tier. The simultaneous nerfing of IFHE (from a 30% pen buff to 25%) and the buff to tier VIII+ 6” cruiser guns (from 1/6 to 1/5 HE pen) is why Mogami has her unique penetration characteristics.

I’m still surprised we haven’t seen the 155s removed from Mogami and given to one of her sisters as a premium ship (Suyuza is such a ship in WoWs Legends). I wouldn’t even really be opposed to it (I can recognize that it makes the IJN CA grind inconsistent), especially if the 155mm version was made available for coal (we really need a few tier VIII coal ships).

The only reason I can see for the devs to have kept the 155mm option for all this time is that they know it’s much more popular than the 203mm “upgrade” and want to avoid opening that can of worms.

That would have been a can of worms indeed. Thanks for the correction on the IFHE rework. 

A 155 Premium would be welcome, especially for Coal since I am glutted. 

[Andrewbassg]

7 hours ago, Wulf_Ace said:

I still remember my first game in STOCK Mogami I made 7 kills, then I fell in love in this ship.

So only good option is 155 mm guns, you dont need IFHE, fire chance is more important and you can make a lot of fires.

 

Absolutely this. From teamplay perspective is MUCH better the ability to start fires and overwhelm DCP's. So bacon from me.

 

155 mm Mogami is the way