Jolly Rodger Flag Being Auctioned, Does Anyone Have A Problem With This

[tm63au]

The Jolly Rodger Flags were part of the various Rank events for those who were lucky to earn one for achieving rank 1 status .

I have a flag for ranking out in the bronze section, while not a jolly Rodger I busted my butt to get it none the less.

 

Now I see WG have a special auction going for the flag for coal, these people have no shame or honour, back in the day it was  " 30 pieces of silver " I guess its coal in modern times.

 

Players went through hell to achieve these flags and now all you have to is auction it off to the highest bidder and you own it complete with its " "A commemorative flag granted for achieving Rank 1 again in Ranked Battles " title, that they didn't earn.

It just doesn't sit right with me. 

   

 

[Wulf_Ace]

15 minutes ago, tm63au said:

The Jolly Rodger Flags were part of the various Rank events for those who were lucky to earn one for achieving rank 1 status .

I have a flag for ranking out in the bronze section, while not a jolly Rodger I busted my butt to get it none the less.

 

Now I see WG have a special auction going for the flag for coal, these people have no shame or honour, back in the day it was  " 30 pieces of silver " I guess its coal in modern times.

 

Players went through hell to achieve these flags and now all you have to is auction it off to the highest bidder and you own it complete with its " "A commemorative flag granted for achieving Rank 1 again in Ranked Battles " title, that they didn't earn.

It just doesn't sit right with me. 

   

 

well my friend isnt the same thing in real life? there are people who work their ass off to achive things and there are ones who pay to skip hard work.

 

[Admiral_Karasu]

Kind of stinks. Different culture, I suppose, what they got....

[Project45_Opytny]

This is indeed very questionable.

Auctioning ones like Ohio, Somers, Moskva flags etc. is another story as these flags, ornamental anyway, have few ways of getting before. Yet I understand Jolly Roger represents some prestige and efforts made before.

Yet there are a number of instances of WG deliberately making contents more available/accessible at the cost of its former status of being related with some prestige besides ornamental flags. Examples include Flint, DD-666 Black, Neustrashimy, and all those steel ships thanks to the reworked Ranked and Dockyard events (by paying and bumbling around in Bronze League I managed to exchange Bourgogne, Shikishima, Mecklenburg and Stalingrad. Completely unimaginable for a "Below Average" guy before the Ranked rework and Dockyard events). On less extreme cases, players could only pay real cash for Duke of York or Epochal permacamoes, now both can be exchanged for Coal that can be comfortably earned by regular gameplay.

By extension a question may be raised: the rationality of Flags container. It may be argued that even "trivial" EA event commemorative flags represent some efforts made at the correct time, and the "values" of Ranked flags vary between the two systems (some token efforts in the old and Bronze R1 of the new).

[Tpaktop2_1 NA]

This stinks as if you buy or create a military medal in real life and say you were in a battle when you actually weren't. Wasn't there a riot from WW2 in New Zealand between old and new US Marines over the same matter? How low in honor do you have to go in getting an unearned achievement? This shows how much Wargaming believes in the Veteran WoWS players who earned the titles from the past eight years. I know there are WoWS players better than me in RB, but I will never say I deserve their RB flags or medals by purchasing them.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Tpaktop2_1 NA

[SunkCostFallacy]

One thing that's worth noting:

Some people may well buy the flag, unaware of it's prior significance.

I wasn't aware of what it meant, for instance. Not that I was interested in the flag ... but some players who don't know how it was a reward for effort in the past may just get it because they think it looks cool.

So don't make assumptions about the motives of those players who bid on the auction.

[Guest]

It's WarGambling, company has no morals or scruples, just profit at any cost !

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

The never ending search for more money...

[tm63au]

20 minutes ago, SunkCostFallacy said:

One thing that's worth noting:

Some people may well buy the flag, unaware of it's prior significance.

I wasn't aware of what it meant, for instance. Not that I was interested in the flag ... but some players who don't know how it was a reward for effort in the past may just get it because they think it looks cool.

So don't make assumptions about the motives of those players who bid on the auction.

I don't disagree with your assumptions, however WG are clever and hide the facts to unsuspecting new players, that makes it even worse 

[Efros]

Yeah smells bad. I have the red one from Pirate day. The should have done limited numbers in other colours and retired the black ones.

[SunkCostFallacy]

10 minutes ago, tm63au said:

I don't disagree with your assumptions, however WG are clever and hide the facts to unsuspecting new players, that makes it even worse 

Ah ... now that's a different matter altogether.

WG have no business making a flag that players had to earn available for purchase. There's no ifs or buts on that aspect of the entire situation.

The fact that they CAN do it doesn't change the fact that they should NOT do it.

 

[Admiral_Karasu]

1 hour ago, SunkCostFallacy said:

One thing that's worth noting:

Some people may well buy the flag, unaware of it's prior significance.

I wasn't aware of what it meant, for instance. Not that I was interested in the flag ... but some players who don't know how it was a reward for effort in the past may just get it because they think it looks cool.

So don't make assumptions about the motives of those players who bid on the auction.

True, I like many 'veteran' players know this flag for what it is, so I couldn't buy it myself knowing what I know.

There should be a distinction between content that was originally earned as a reward, and content that was time gated, purchasable for real money, and so on. The former should be a no no to sell, the latter not so much, IMO.

World of Tanks experienced something similar when they released the 'Mutant', originally exclusive to the starter pack people bought, IIRC for sale. Though, it actually falls in the 'latter' category then if I remember the details correctly and you actually had to buy it. If it was awarded, then it would have been in the 'former' category.

[Project45_Opytny]

5 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

There should be a distinction between content that was originally earned as a reward, and content that was time gated, purchasable for real money, and so on. The former should be a no no to sell, the latter not so much, IMO.

It is clear for extreme cases (Jolly Roger as reward for R1 vs. say, the 8th Anniversary flag that can be considered primarily as time-gated due to the mission is very simple), yet I think it's "intermediate" ones that are more troublesome. Like how to rate flags awarded for participating in previous Ranked Battle seasons?

[Ensign Cthulhu]

My attitude to this is the same as for all those premium ships I bought with my own money that were later made into coal ships or made winnable for free (however briefly) in events: I am pleased that those who could not get them can now do so. 

[Project45_Opytny]

Just now, Ensign Cthulhu said:

My attitude to this is the same as for all those premium ships I bought with my own money that were later made into coal ships or made winnable for free (however briefly) in events: I am pleased that those who could not get them can now do so. 

And I have commented above that WG and Lesta is intentionally making these contents more available to ordinary players. In RU players can earn "Champion tokens" (the unified replacement for separate Ranked and Clan Battle tokens) for reaching R1 in silver league. Not to say the extreme case of Flint, from a certificate of serious engagement in Ranked seasons then, to "Smoke-Atlanta that is premium and can be exchanged for free", and how reworked Ranked and Dockyards granting numerous average-skilled players access to steel ships.

[Admiral_Karasu]

9 minutes ago, Project45_Opytny said:

It is clear for extreme cases (Jolly Roger as reward for R1 vs. say, the 8th Anniversary flag that can be considered primarily as time-gated due to the mission is very simple), yet I think it's "intermediate" ones that are more troublesome. Like how to rate flags awarded for participating in previous Ranked Battle seasons?

A good point. Though, the 'intermediate' ones are far less exclusive though, they are more like souvenirs. In the old Ranked system that awarded them at rank 15, they were easy to get. With the new Ranked system they became far harder to get, in fact I never managed to get single one after that change... (gee, thanks a lot, WG...)

 

[Admiral_Karasu]

Hey, guys! Look what I just bought! Only cost me 99 dubs, it's so cheap it's practically a steal! Looks pretty cool, huh?

 

 

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/129194-the-transatlantic-flag/

 

[Wolfswetpaws]

Congratulations on your new flag (which seems to be partially outside of the picture?).  🙂 

[Wolfswetpaws]

3 hours ago, tm63au said:

The Jolly Rodger Flags were part of the various Rank events for those who were lucky to earn one for achieving rank 1 status .

I have a flag for ranking out in the bronze section, while not a jolly Rodger I busted my butt to get it none the less.

 

Now I see WG have a special auction going for the flag for coal, these people have no shame or honour, back in the day it was  " 30 pieces of silver " I guess its coal in modern times.

 

Players went through hell to achieve these flags and now all you have to is auction it off to the highest bidder and you own it complete with its " "A commemorative flag granted for achieving Rank 1 again in Ranked Battles " title, that they didn't earn.

It just doesn't sit right with me. 

  

This isn't the first time that WG/WOWs has decided an item, such as a flag in this case, that was once-upon-a-time issued as a reward for an achievement or participation in an exclusive once-in-a-lifetime event, will become available to the "public" for the nominal price of <insert price here>.

Does doing so cheapen the original achievement?   No.
Does doing so create confusion about who actually earned the flag or other achievement reward?  I think so.
Does the re-issue of the item under different circumstances tick a number of people off?
    


The Art Department could easily create a new "shiney toy" or "cool fashion accessory" that could be auctioned.
And I'm sure the Art Department could make something that players actually want to spend money on, merely for its own merits without detracting from the cachet of a previously created item.

But, for whatever reason(s), WG/WOWs didn't chart that course of action.
And for a number of players, that is a disappointment.
 

[Admiral_Karasu]

15 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Congratulations on your new flag (which seems to be partially outside of the picture?).  🙂 

Thank you... though.. it's almost smack in the middle of the picture...

[Wolfswetpaws]

17 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Congratulations on your new flag (which seems to be partially outside of the picture?).  🙂 

Tagging @Admiral_Karasu  
But is that a Jolly Roger or....?
  


Oh, I see you've replied.  But, I'm still confused about which flag was purchased at auction if it wasn't a Jolly Roger flag?

2 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Thank you... though.. it's almost smack in the middle of the picture...

 

[Admiral_Karasu]

1 minute ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Tagging @Admiral_Karasu  
But is that a Jolly Roger or....?
  


Oh, I see you've replied.  But, I'm still confused about which flag was purchased at auction if it wasn't a Jolly Roger flag?

 

Spoiler

I didn't actually purchase anything... this was a joke... and there was no rogering involved, jolly or otherwise, but keep this information just between us, no need for anyone else to hear the not-so-sordid details of this affair.

 

[Admiral_Karasu]

@Wolfswetpaws Perhaps if there are openings at WG Miscommunication Department, we should both apply?

[Wolfswetpaws]

4 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I didn't actually purchase anything... this was a joke... and there was no rogering involved, jolly or otherwise, but keep this information just between us, no need for anyone else to hear the not-so-sordid details of this affair.

 

There are times when I am very literal.  I didn't "get the joke" and was quite confused and wondering what was/is going on.

1 minute ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

@Wolfswetpaws Perhaps if there are openings at WG Miscommunication Department, we should both apply?

They wouldn't take me.  I'd iron-out too much of the wrinkling that they deliberately forge into their wordsmithing or get fired while trying.

The notion of the left-hand not knowing what the right-hand is doing as a way of explaining WG/WOWs actions has lost its credibility due to the repetitive nature of the incidences.  Instead I'm left with the impression that it is a pattern of behavior.

[Verblonde]

4 hours ago, tm63au said:

It just doesn't sit right with me.

As much as we may not like it, I guess - for our own sanity, if nothing else - we have to deal with where WOWS is now i.e. what once was a relatively niche game where developing skill and knowledge mattered, is now a comparatively casual more mass-market muck-about kind of a thing.

In that context, almost everything is for sale, including things that you previously had to work for (and many less skilled folk couldn't get at all - so, me!); it's a shame, but it's a sign of WG moving into the 'rinsing the customers' phase of the game's lifecycle.