Scharnhorst '43 what the doodle? I don't see point of this ship

[VedranSeawolf359]

Helloo Mates I don't see point of Scharnhorst '43 same tier lower accuracy little stronger secondaries?!! it already have good secondaries and torpedoes.

But different story will be if Scharnhorst '43 be tier 9 with fast reload main guns and standard German secondaries. This ship will have point.

Is sad that there will be surly I don't know better word then "stupid" players who will buy it :(

[tm63au]

I cant understand why on earth they would produce this type of ship apart from running out original creative ship ideas.

No idea what is going through these peoples heads, there in La la Land

 

 

[Verblonde]

1 hour ago, VedranSeawolf359 said:

I don't see point of Scharnhorst '43 same tier lower accuracy little stronger secondaries?!!

This was pretty much my reaction too (I think the torps reload a bit faster too?); I'm guessing the reasoning may be along the following lines:

• As @tm63au says, WG are running out of ideas, and most people who might buy OG Scharn probably already have.
• She ought to be quite fun in Coop, so she might be a reflection of a significant shift of player numbers to that mode?
• The fanboys will buy pretty much anything German, so why not?
• OG Scharn isn't (allegedly) nerfable, as an older premium, whereas this new one will be - might give WG scope to play silly buggers with releasing her slightly OP then nerfing later (although they generally haven't so far)?
• Judging by the reaction to the newer German BB line, people like secondary-focused brawlers?

[Asym]

2 hours ago, tm63au said:

I cant understand why on earth they would produce this type of ship apart from running out original creative ship ideas.

No idea what is going through these peoples heads, there in La la Land

Why is simple:  all they can really produce are clones of clones of dreamt up, might have been ships....  They got rid of the R&D team years ago.   And, we have to be somewhat honest:  whales will buy "everything offered...."   That's easy money crew......easy money.

If we want more in this game, there has to be "something" they are afraid of....  And, that includes we all stop spending.  We all start discussing video game legislation to clean up and properly tax "earning from games of and mechanics of chance..."   Then, as Belgium and others have done, the market will have some "fear;" because,  easy money, is no longer available.....  Then, quality is the metric that drives revenue......  and, this game could do that.

Edited September 9, 2023 by Asym

[MidnightPhoenix07]

The funny part is, we visually already have “Scharnhorst 43” in game (and “Stord 43” too). Both are modeled on their 1943 refits, and Scharnhorst’s camo is what she wore during the Battle of the North Cape (minus the shield that had already been removed by that point). 

So queue the “we already have X at home” memes.

3 hours ago, VedranSeawolf359 said:

Scharnhorst '43 what the doodle? I don't see point of this ship

Easy.

Why make only one thing to sell when you can make two with minimal extra effort?

With the 80th anniversary of that battle coming up in a couple months, these are almost certainly intended to be part of an in-game event for it. At least for Scharnhorst, they could just as easily have used the one already in the game, but…. see above. Also, the people that are most likely to buy it during the event probably already have it.

Current Stord would be a bit more difficult since it’s a tech tree ship, and would be a less popular item in a premium shop bundle. At least Stord 43 is reasonably unique compared to normal Stord with AP and a heal. 

[Project45_Opytny]

My personal guess is that not only this is an attempt to create new premium contents for the 80th Anniversary of the Battle of the North Cape, the decision is very recently made.

Had it been decided earlier, researchable Tier VI Pan-European gunboat may as well be ex-Shark (Svenner), ex-Oribi (transferred to Turkey in the 1950s), ex-Kempenfelt or ex-Wager (transferred to Yugoslavia) and making the more famous Stord naturally a premium.

[Nevermore135]

43 minutes ago, MidnightPhoenix07 said:

Current Stord would be a bit more difficult since it’s a tech tree ship, and would be a less popular item in a premium shop bundle. At least Stord 43 is reasonably unique compared to normal Stord with AP and a heal. 

She’s also tier VII vs. tier VI, which is to be expected given that is usually how these types of ships are implemented. It makes Scharnhorst’43 look like an even lazier effort.

[Wulf_Ace]

2 hours ago, Verblonde said:

• The fanboys will buy pretty much anything German, so why not?
• Judging by the reaction to the newer German BB line, people like secondary-focused brawlers

Basiclly this only.

Every single damn ranked game there must be a german secondary ship.

[fumtu]

IMO, it is probably connected with the New Year event and we would probably be able to obtain one or both of them for some tokens or through some campaign. It would be just a cheap way for WG to provide some "free ships" for this. It is a shame that they haven't consider some other S class destroyer that took part in the Battle of the North Cape for this, like for example HMS Saumarez, which also led destroyer flotilla that sunk Haguro in 1945. It would not be huge problem as they already created a model. But I guess they really wonted a ship they could put 43 on it for the event.

[WES_HoundDog]

5 hours ago, Verblonde said:

 

• Judging by the reaction to the newer German BB line, people like secondary-focused brawlers?

Honestly this is what the player base has become.   Instead of aiming angeling and positioning, everyone has become so bad at the game they just rush in and let the ai do the damage.  So Wg is cashing in on the apes.

 

Full disclosure, been playing the bismack the last coulpe days and it is a... blast..

Edited September 9, 2023 by WES_HoundDog

[Pugilistic]

1 hour ago, WES_HoundDog said:

Honestly this is what the player base has become.   Instead of aiming angeling and positioning, everyone has become so bad at the game they just rush in and let the ai do the damage.  So Wg is cashing in on the apes.

 

Full disclosure, been playing the bismack the last coulpe days and it is a... blast..

More new players, moar automated mechanics. 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

14 hours ago, Verblonde said:

OG Scharn isn't (allegedly) nerfable, as an older premium, whereas this new one will be

...yeah, that idea isn't true.

WG nerfed Mikasa, Duke of York, etc. even when they were premiums under the old rules.

The idea that certain premiums can't or won't be changed is a playerbase delusion.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

I keep waiting for people to notice the very major decline in art department content of late.

Most ships coming out don't have new models, but are copies of other ships already in game.

The impact of the need to move the teams to the West has really hurt the core teams quality and output quantity.

[MBT808]

16 hours ago, Verblonde said:

The fanboys will buy pretty much anything German, so why not?

We will? Looking at my port, seems I didn’t get the memo.

I think you’re confusing fans with whales here. I’d say only a dozen(more or less) of the premium/freemium ships are truly highly sought after for Germany. Karl von schonberg or Z-44 hardly anyone plays(for good reason) or owns that I can tell.

[invicta2012]

5 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I keep waiting for people to notice the very major decline in art department content of late.

They're too busy noticing the Submarines, bad maps, predatory monetisation practices..... but WG are spoiling the special feel of Premium ships by putting out this sort of thing. It's both "milking the collectors" and "running out of ideas".

 

3 hours ago, MBT808 said:

’d say only a dozen(more or less) of the premium/freemium ships are truly highly sought after for Germany. Karl von schonberg or Z-44 hardly anyone plays(for good reason) or owns that I can tell.

Ah, I have both of those. KvS was largely a vehicle for her skipper IIRC(The V/O artist famous as the dubbed voice of John McClane), Z-44 is just a torpedo boat which lacks vision control. 

[Verblonde]

10 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

...yeah, that idea isn't true.

WG nerfed Mikasa, Duke of York, etc. even when they were premiums under the old rules.

The idea that certain premiums can't or won't be changed is a playerbase delusion.

It pretty much is, although - as has been pointed out ad nauseum - the EULA absolutely says everything can be messed with. In general, WG do not directly nerf older premium ships, or clones thereof (from memory, Flandre is the cut-off; she was the first nerfable premium).

Of course, that doesn't cover global changes, wildly messing with game mechanics and so on...

So, it's not that premiums without the 'may be nerfed' tag can't be nerfed, it's that WG - as a matter of policy - usually don't.

Edited September 10, 2023 by Verblonde

[MnemonScarlet]

3 hours ago, Verblonde said:

It pretty much is, although - as has been pointed out ad nauseum - the EULA absolutely says everything can be messed with. In general, WG do not directly nerf older premium ships, or clones thereof (from memory, Flandre is the cut-off; she was the first nerfable premium).

Of course, that doesn't cover global changes, wildly messing with game mechanics and so on...

So, it's not that premiums without the 'may be nerfed' tag can't be nerfed, it's that WG - as a matter of policy - usually don't.

Yeah, there is nothing actually standing in WG's way of nerfing premiums other than some bad customer relations and maybe the vague threat of someone trying legal action. That legal action thing hasn't stopped Gaijin from nerfing all sorts of premiums all the time in Warthunder though, so [x] big doubt that it's actually something that matters.

They're mostly just super cautious and so the pre-can-be-nerfed tag prems are left alone wholly for that reason.

Plus I guess that lets them potentially trot out the more overtuned ones someday if they need quick cash, since a lot of the playerbase with them will have dropped off over time and they'd be scarce again.

[Sailor_Moon]

Bluntly, there's zero point to this ship. It's barely even a sidegrade to the original Scharnie to justify its existence. Like, the secondary battery is apparently faster firing, sure. But its range is still not great at 9.5km (affects ALL Tier VII secondary brawlers at this tier sadly) and they didn't say she has Mass accuracy (the logical step upwards from German accuracy). At least THOSE kinds of changes would justify her worse main battery performance, her lower sigma, her worse reload time, her worse range. 

What does Scharnie '43 even get? Really. Heck, she doesn't even LOOK different from Scharnie. Like...at all. Not even a different camo FFS.

And APPARENTLY....*THIS* is her 1943 configuartion and paint scheme.

OR they could rename her Scharnhorst '42 and give us THIS camo instead:

Both of which would've at least DIFFERENTIATED Scharnie '43/'42 from OG Scharnie.

Lazy Wargaming being lazy. 😤 (Also yes, this is technically a copypasta of a previous comment I made super recently, like 5 mins ago. Fitting. :P)

Edited September 10, 2023 by Sailor_Moon

[FltCaptAlan]

I would have made the ship pre Atlantic-bow, a model that should be in game, it just would need a different name say Scharny (or even Gniesenau) '39

[Otago_F111]

21 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

The impact of the need to move the teams to the West has really hurt the core teams quality and output quantity.

they might have been sent to the SMO in Ukraine. not much chance of doing any designing there.

[MnemonScarlet]

6 hours ago, Sailor_Moon said:

Bluntly, there's zero point to this ship. It's barely even a sidegrade to the original Scharnie to justify its existence. Like, the secondary battery is apparently faster firing, sure. But its range is still not great at 9.5km (affects ALL Tier VII secondary brawlers at this tier sadly) and they didn't say she has Mass accuracy (the logical step upwards from German accuracy). At least THOSE kinds of changes would justify her worse main battery performance, her lower sigma, her worse reload time, her worse range. 

What does Scharnie '43 even get? Really. Heck, she doesn't even LOOK different from Scharnie. Like...at all. Not even a different camo FFS.

I think WG just thinks we're all such incredible secondary addicts we'd rebuy Scharnhorst (or get the worse version) just for some paltry secondary buffs. It's kind of disturbing if their data (which is more complete than ours) shows there's enough terrible players who need the secondary AI to do damage that it would actually be good for a big % of their playerbase vs using the old Scharnhorst lol.

[Sailor_Moon]

1 hour ago, MnemonScarlet said:

I think WG just thinks we're all such incredible secondary addicts we'd rebuy Scharnhorst (or get the worse version) just for some paltry secondary buffs. It's kind of disturbing if their data (which is more complete than ours) shows there's enough terrible players who need the secondary AI to do damage that it would actually be good for a big % of their playerbase vs using the old Scharnhorst lol.

See the thing is, I DO love secondary ships, sure. But Wargaming needs to give me a bit more than JUST a bit faster reload. That alone doesn't suddenly make Scharnie into a viable secondary ship, really. And, to be fair, it technically already IS a secondary ship of sorts (extended range and German 22.5% accuracy). It's not great, but it it COULD be built for it I guess.

Scharnie '43 just....doesn't make much sense atm though, BECAUSE OG Scharnie can already technically fulfill that role.

[SoshiSone]

The two things that aren't worthy on the Scharnhorst (secondaries and torps) are emphasized at the expense of its best attributes (faster main gun reloads and range).

Scharn is hard enough to play as is.  The '43 looks even harder to make work.

The Scharnhorst key ability, IMHO, is relatively rapid fire 11 inch guns.  Less alpha, but more shots. Which also gives quicker options when switching HE and AP.  Although the secondaries and torps are niice, they are BOTH secondary to the main guns.  They are usefull when the tempo of the game brings them into play, but should never be the focus of play.

Oh well.  I guess we'll see.

 

[MnemonScarlet]

18 hours ago, Sailor_Moon said:

See the thing is, I DO love secondary ships, sure. But Wargaming needs to give me a bit more than JUST a bit faster reload. That alone doesn't suddenly make Scharnie into a viable secondary ship, really. And, to be fair, it technically already IS a secondary ship of sorts (extended range and German 22.5% accuracy). It's not great, but it it COULD be built for it I guess.

Scharnie '43 just....doesn't make much sense atm though, BECAUSE OG Scharnie can already technically fulfill that role.

Yeah but see, they think that you - for example - are such a secondary addict you're going to get a copy-paste ship that guts its best attributes in favor of muh secondaries. And who knows, that scow might be ok in bronze ranked or something vs the people who get trapped there, but it's sure not gonna be good anywhere else outside of 'these people were so stupid they literally let me walk over them' situations similar to what schroder gets.

The other possibility is that the 'plain bads' are such a high % of the WoWs population now that they think this ship will make good money off of them for investment put into developing it, even if we all think it's a dog.

[Sailor_Moon]

16 minutes ago, MnemonScarlet said:

Yeah but see, they think that you - for example - are such a secondary addict you're going to get a copy-paste ship that guts its best attributes in favor of muh secondaries.

So in other words, they DON'T think? 😛 Gotcha.