DevBlog: "CHANGES TO TEST SHIPS - CLOSED TEST 12.9"

[Tricericon]

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/476

Most interesting to me is that smoke screens are now associated with Yorktown & Essex. Have they dropped the minefield idea?

[_KlRlTO_]

It's finally happening!!!!!

Also, in addition to smoke, they are also getting the enhanced Bearn fighter consumables, so these CVs are specifically designed to defend the team.

[Tricericon]

3 minutes ago, _KlRlTO_ said:

It's finally happening!!!!!

Also, in addition to smoke, they are also getting the enhanced Bearn fighter consumables, so these CVs are specifically designed to defend the team.

I think that's an excellent way to implement a "support" role for a carrier line. I'm looking forward to playing these ships when they come out.

[o4x4]

Not sure if new Independence derived from Langley or Ranger.  But most likely can get from Early Access.

 

Edited September 7, 2023 by o4x4

[AdmiralThunder]

29 minutes ago, _KlRlTO_ said:

It's finally happening!!!!!

Also, in addition to smoke, they are also getting the enhanced Bearn fighter consumables, so these CVs are specifically designed to defend the team.

WG has had Yorktown modeled and in game for years now. It was actually shown as the T8 TT for when the removed ships returned way back when they did the CV Rework in Update 0.8.0 and removed Bogue, Independence, and Essex from the US tree. They had a split screen on the news site in one of the articles where they showed the new/current CV tree for US and IJN post rework and then what the 2 trees would look like once the removed CV's were brought back. Yorktown was there at T8 for the US even way back then.

I don't think WG expected the return of the removed ships to be so far down the road. They did a really poor job on the Cv Rework (balance wise and neutering AA) and it delayed (IMHO) the return of the removed CV's and any splits. They made a mess of things and instead of trying to add new gimmicks to bring the removed ones back they waited. I think they are only doing it now because they are running out of things to add frankly.

As they said way back then we will have in the new sides of the CV lines/trees for US and IJN CV's...

US:

• T6 - Independence
• T8 - Yorktown
• T10 - Essex

IJN:

• T6 - Zuiho
• T8 - Hiryu
• T10 - Taiho

The CV that gets left out is US T5 Bogue. I have always wondered if they won't make it a T6 Premium vs just forgetting about it? I mean it is already modeled and all they have to do is adjust planes and such for the new system. They could make some $$$ out of the deal. To me it would make sense to kind of make it a US version of Bearn. That would pay homage to it's old RTS CV days where Bogue was a beast at deplaning the red CV. Both of them are slow as snot but Bearn works at T6 so Bogue could too (maybe a small speed buff for "balance").

Edited September 7, 2023 by AdmiralThunder

[invicta2012]

59 minutes ago, _KlRlTO_ said:

Also, in addition to smoke, they are also getting the enhanced Bearn fighter consumables, so these CVs are specifically designed to defend the team.

Sounds good. I would have liked them to go a little further and add defensive drops (heal circles etc) but I know that's a little too much for people who value immersion. 

 

31 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

The CV that gets left out is US T5 Bogue.

Bogue could easily be used for an RN support line, if needed - plenty of that class served in the ASW role during WW2. 

 

Scharnhorst '43 looks OK, Stord '43 less so - 6km torpedo range at Tier VII sounds not fun, and the damage is anaemic compared to Tier VII equivalents like Jervis. 

[MBT808]

Scharnhorst 43 makes no sense. I honestly don't see why anyone would buy her if they already have the OG Scharnhorst or would buy her instead(likely Scharnhorst is being retired at the same time, I am aware). Secondaries are very meh at tier VII, so buffing them really doesn't help and making her torps reload a bit faster really isn't interesting. This coming at the expense of main battery sigma and fire rate, its not worth it in my opinion. The heal looks nice on paper, but I'm not convinced.

Honestly, unless she ends up a coal ship(which I rEEEEEEeeeallllly doubt), I don't think she is worth buying for $ in addition to, or instead of, the OG Scharnhorst in her current form.

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, Tricericon said:

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/476

Most interesting to me is that smoke screens are now associated with Yorktown & Essex. Have they dropped the minefield idea?

[AdmiralThunder]

2 hours ago, Tricericon said:

 Have they dropped the minefield idea?

One can only hope. That was the most busted game mechanic this side of Sub homing torps.

[AdmiralThunder]

49 minutes ago, MBT808 said:

Scharnhorst 43 makes no sense. I honestly don't see why anyone would buy her if they already have the OG Scharnhorst or would buy her instead(likely Scharnhorst is being retired at the same time, I am aware). Secondaries are very meh at tier VII, so buffing them really doesn't help and making her torps reload a bit faster really isn't interesting. This coming at the expense of main battery sigma and fire rate, its not worth it in my opinion. The heal looks nice on paper, but I'm not convinced.

Honestly, unless she ends up a coal ship(which I rEEEEEEeeeallllly doubt), I don't think she is worth buying for $ in addition to, or instead of, the OG Scharnhorst in her current form.

I don’t get it with this version of Scharnhorst either. It is WORSE than the OG one as far as PVP play goes. Might be better in PVE but this game is balanced around Randoms. The ship is worse for there. Faster secondary reload and torp reload isn’t going to do much for PVP. Making the main guns worse is a head scratcher as OG Scharnhorst guns already kind of suck. They will probably sell a ton of them but I won’t buy it. I have the OG and OG B which are better versions.

Edited September 7, 2023 by AdmiralThunder

[Tricericon]

51 minutes ago, MBT808 said:

Scharnhorst 43 makes no sense. I honestly don't see why anyone would buy her if they already have the OG Scharnhorst or would buy her instead(likely Scharnhorst is being retired at the same time, I am aware). Secondaries are very meh at tier VII, so buffing them really doesn't help and making her torps reload a bit faster really isn't interesting. This coming at the expense of main battery sigma and fire rate, its not worth it in my opinion. The heal looks nice on paper, but I'm not convinced.

Honestly, unless she ends up a coal ship(which I rEEEEEEeeeallllly doubt), I don't think she is worth buying for $ in addition to, or instead of, the OG Scharnhorst in her current form.

I always thought Scharnhorst-clone-interpreted-as-a-cruiser would make a great T10 German answer to Puerto Rico, Stalingrad, or Yoshino. Pity they are going a different direction.

[MBT808]

13 minutes ago, Tricericon said:

I always thought Scharnhorst-clone-interpreted-as-a-cruiser would make a great T10 German answer to Puerto Rico, Stalingrad, or Yoshino. Pity they are going a different direction.

Gouden sorta does that, or its pretty close to that. The German T10 answer is Mecklenburg, She is quite powerful.

[Nevermore135]

I have one burning question: is WG buffing Essex’s deck armor?

She’ll be the only tier X CV in the game without some type of armored deck. In the most recent iteration of Concealed Maneuvers she retained her 25mm deck armor, which is overmatched by almost every single BB in her MM spread. She was much easier to sink than any of the other CVs. United States also originally featured an unarmored (25mm) flight deck in accordance with the historical design she is based on, but WG buffed it to 38mm during her (live server) testing period.

4 hours ago, o4x4 said:

Not sure if new Independence derived from Langley or Ranger.  But most likely can get from Early Access.

Going by recent precedent, probably Langley. Most branch lines WG has added have been researched from the previous tier, with “same tier” research seeming reserved for researching of different ship types (i.e. tier IV CVs being researched from tier IV DDs, tier VI subs from tier VI DDs, etc.). This would also simplify things by preserving the same rough amount of XP needed to fully research (and re-grind) each CV line.

The only situations where same-type ships are researched from the same tier are both the German and British CC lines. However, these branch lines are unique in starting at such a low tier. Both tier III ships are directly researchable from the stock BBs for 2700 XP, so the added grind is negligible. One can argue that these “support” CVs represent a similar level of differentiation from the “base” line to warrant research from another tier VI CV, but there is a lot more XP involved in researching a tier VI (especially carriers, which have inflated XP requirements because they effectively represent two tiers) vs. a tier III ship.

I suspect WG wants to avoid significant slowing of the progress of new players to higher tiers, as was somewhat recently demonstrated with the addition of Nebraska. Having NE be researched from North Carolina would have made a lot of sense (as she’s a derivative of the NC design and much closer in gameplay to that ship than Colorado) and would have made the grind for the ship a lot more bearable for most, as NC is a much more comfortable ship to play than Colorado. I suspect the devs didn’t want to add extra XP/grind time for players wishing to grind to Louisiana from lower tiers and/or didn’t want to deal with the Implications of a high tier “side grade” on the RB system: players might insist that the LA line be worth more RP because it would require two tier VIII grinds.

3 hours ago, MBT808 said:

Scharnhorst 43 makes no sense.

2 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

I don’t get it with this version of Scharnhorst either.

I don’t understand the reasoning for Scharnhorst’43 either. The choice to develop Stord’43 is also a bit of a head-scratcher, but at least she has some more impactful gameplay differences (AP shells!) and is at a different tier. Releasing another version of Scharnhorst at tier VII just seems like a wasted opportunity, as a ship with similar gameplay properties based on a historical design or even a WG fantasy would be more interesting.

Then there’s the fact that we still don’t have a proper German battlecruiser premium (AL Prinz Heinrich doesn’t count) nearly two years after the line entered early access…

2 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

Making the main guns worse is a head scratcher as OG Scharnhorst guns already kind of suck.

The cruiser plating rework years back was not kind to Scharnhorst. 25mm decks are now standard on mid-tier cruisers, so there’s a lot less plating for her to overmatch.

2 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

They will probably sell a ton of them but I won’t buy it. I have the OG and OG B which are better versions.

I’m of the same mind. I don’t imagine many players who have picked up a Scharnhorst or Scharnhorst B would be interested in the ship.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Nevermore135

[AdmiralThunder]

2 hours ago, Nevermore135 said:

The cruiser plating rework years back was not kind to Scharnhorst. 25mm decks are now standard on mid-tier cruisers, so there’s a lot less plating for her to overmatch.

I am not even talking about the overmatch issue. 283MM doesn't overmatch much and that doesn't change with the new Scharn; it is the same for it vs OG.

I am referring to the fact it gets worse accuracy and a longer reload. I mean OG Scharn has trouble shooting a barn from inside said barn and they are making accuracy worse? It's only a 3 sec longer reload BUT you need to sling as many shells as you can with that ship to actually get some damage so making the reload slower just means fewer salvos fired and less damage (overmatch plays into that a bit). 

I just don't get it???

[Project45_Opytny]

Some brief comments from myself and read from NGA WoWS community:

Comparing with what composed the rest of the dev blog, Francesco Ferruccio is a breathe of fresh air. Based on a historic design sketch readily available at Stefano Sappino's blog (and WG bungled Duca degli Abruzzi in hindsight), her current statistics are very promising and indicates an Italian light cruiser branch.

Stord 1943 and Scharnhorst 1943 are both atrocious. For me they are among the infamous Yukon, the worst premiums ever made, from at least 2 aspects. Currently, Scharnhorst is already in her late 1942 status which she maintained until her sinking off the North Cape, and even if she is made as "Gneisenau 1941", for me, it would be better, and in terms of modelling Stord 1943 seems to be also identical with her researchable self, and unlike Destroyer Project SK-22 (Gaede and Schonberg) she is a historical ship being famous for a darling torpedo attack that helped to seal the doom for Scharnhorst. Such lazy copy-pasting caused wide outrage across the global playerbase for exhibiting how Nicosia is obsessed with generating quick profits, not to say their stats are both worrying: with "classic" British 120-mm ballistics, perhaps only stupidly low drag and/or high Krupp value can make the AP worthwhile.

It is possible that they are prepared for some sort of 80th Anniversary of the Battle of the North Cape (the redux) event, hence the choices of Scharnhorst and Stord.

Essex and Yorktown are welcomed but the development is too rushed, with what actually happened during Concealed Manouvers Stage 2 in mind. And it's bringing unlimited tactical squadrons across the tiers?

[invicta2012]

1 hour ago, Project45_Opytny said:

For me they are among the infamous Yukon, the worst premiums ever made,

Yukon's not that bad, really. 

 

1 hour ago, Project45_Opytny said:

and in terms of modelling Stord 1943 seems to be also identical with her researchable self, and unlike Destroyer Project SK-22 (Gaede and Schonberg) she is a historical ship being famous for a darling torpedo attack that helped to seal the doom for Scharnhorst. Such lazy copy-pasting caused wide outrage across the global playerbase for exhibiting how Nicosia is obsessed with generating quick profits, not to say their stats are both worrying: with "classic" British 120-mm ballistics, perhaps only stupidly low drag and/or high Krupp value can make the AP worthwhile.

WG seems to be trying to milk collector interest by increasing the number of versions of notable ships. What started as an error - issuing the pre-Pearl Harbor version of West Virginia rather than WV44 - now looks like a marketing strategy. Stord '43 doesn't look enticing, to be honest: her Euro torps have improved damage compared to the anaemic ones on the original Stord but the range is dismal. Her guns are late models of the standard British 4.7 inch DD model, and should have an AA capability (the S Class introduced a new mount capable of elevating to 55 degrees, which was an improvement all previous British DD guns, including the twin mounts found on Lightning (which has an AA capability)) - and this should also improve her gunnery, although we still have to contend with the usual floaty DD shells. 

[Project45_Opytny]

I believe the balancing troubles of West Vriginia 1944 (modern subsystems added on a slow, Standard-type superdreadnought hull) may played a greater role in the entire drama of prolonged development, as a downtiered stock Colorado is something that just cannot go wrong while can also be connected with the Pearl Harbor Attack.

Yukon is effectively permenantly associated with the related PR disaster, that's what ruined her impression for me.

It is possible that Stord 43 is an impromptu attempt to make a premium quickly thanks to her fame. Had this been planned earlier, the researchable Tier 6 may as well be Svenner, as Shinonome, Baleares and Grom has already proved that uninspiring careers do not matter for WG.

[Nevermore135]

8 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

I am not even talking about the overmatch issue. 283MM doesn't overmatch much and that doesn't change with the new Scharn; it is the same for it vs OG.

Scharnhorst used to be near the top of the pile of tier VII BBs, and while somewhat power crept she remained competitive for a long time due to her combination of speed, armor, and fast reload. There is no effective difference between 283mm and 356mm AP in terms of overmatch - both can overmatch 19mm but fail to overmatch 25mm plating. Back when 16mm plating was still much more common among mid tier cruisers, Scharnhorst could pretty much overmatch their hulls everywhere and her high ROF made her extremely dangerous. The cruiser plating change I mentioned earlier was a noticeable nerf to her and 14”-armed BBs (except possibly KGV) felt especially hard by those at tier VII due to the high amount of 25mm plating they already saw at the high end of their MM spread.

8 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

I mean OG Scharn has trouble shooting a barn from inside said barn and they are making accuracy worse?

I’ve never noticed this problem myself. She has standard US/UK/German dispersion with 2.0 sigma and good shell velocity/ballistics. Her guns have some issues (the same lack of overmatch shared by 14” guns at tier VII), but accuracy isn’t one of them. Of course, I also don’t run a secondary build, but the player choice to forgo ASM1 to buff her secondaries shouldn’t be held against the ship itself.

But with Scharnhorst’43, the nerfed accuracy will definitely hurt. Scharnhorst benefits greatly players who are skilled and knowledgeable enough to aim for the squishy bits on enemy ships - her bread and butter is consistent regular AP penetrations, with the occasion torpedo rammed down her opponent’s throat. This ship looks to be leaning heavily into secondaries to the point that it’s a meme. This is to say nothing of the general state of secondaries post skill rework (IMO, after the changes to manual secondaries secondary builds aren’t worth it unless a ship has MA/German CC secondary dispersion). It will definitely be an overall weaker version of the ship.

I also further question the wisdom of a such a secondary-focus Scharnhorst at tier VII in light of the existing tech tree options. Gneisenau has the same armor, superior speed, 15” guns with much more comfortable overmatch properties at tier VII (with only a slightly longer reload) and a uniform suite of 128mm secondaries that can pen 32mm without sacrificing fire chance for IFHE. Prinz Heinrich has similar speed, accurate (CC dispersion) albeit underwhelming 15” guns, workable armor (25mm plating vs 26mm plating at tier VII isn’t a huge deal, since both interact with AP in the same way), and secondaries that can actually hit things reliably (MA/German CV/German CC dispersion). For the life of me I cannot understand what type of niche Scharnhorst’43 is meant to fill.

5 hours ago, Project45_Opytny said:

and even if she is made as "Gneisenau 1941", for me, it would be better,

Agreed. Gneisenau with her historical 283mm main armament would at least have a bit of novelty.

5 hours ago, Project45_Opytny said:

It is possible that they are prepared for some sort of 80th Anniversary of the Battle of the North Cape (the redux) event, hence the choices of Scharnhorst and Stord.

This is quite likely; three months or so seems like the right amount of balancing for these types of lazy copy-pastas. Even if such an event isn’t coming, the choice to name the ship “Scharnhorst” is definitely an attempt to cash in on the more famous ship’s name (again).

I’m a little less pessimistic regarding Stord’43, in part because I find the new EU DD’s lack of AP shells to be extremely frustrating. Combined with their anemic torpedoes it just feels like they lack the ability to put down anything quickly if needed. The new Stord is also at least tier VII vs the original’s tier VI, so she has that going for her. I’m still unlikely to pick the ship up, though.

Edited September 8, 2023 by Nevermore135

[Project45_Opytny]

14 hours ago, Tricericon said:

I always thought Scharnhorst-clone-interpreted-as-a-cruiser would make a great T10 German answer to Puerto Rico, Stalingrad, or Yoshino. Pity they are going a different direction.

May I respectfully disagree? Scharnhorst's parameters pale comparing with these current Tier X cruiser-killers. Her AP is not that powerful unless we take the specially buffed version from Schill (Global servers version), then the German HE characteristics will still take its toll on the ship's flexibility, as the deficient in damage and fire-setting surpasses advantage brought by the 1/4 rule.

[Project45_Opytny]

47 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

I’m a little less pessimistic regarding Stord’43, in part because I find the new EU DD’s lack of AP shells to be extremely frustrating.

That is a problem for perhaps Grom and above, yet for Stord that uses the "classic" British 120-mm shell parameters, unless like currently bugged Wakeful that uses the "774" parameter for AP, I doubt how the "808" AP will ever make a difference. At the range of ~5km, "774" AP can penetrate ~100-mm while "808" can only make ~70, insufficient to even defeat an Omaha ("774" can do that at ~7km).

Yet as all data is only preliminary, it is not impossible to see buffs like adopting the "774" ballistics and/or buffing the Krupp value to stupidly high numbers (Novosibirsk boasts 3400, equivalent to 141.7% efficiency).

And I hate the aspect that the tech tree ship is already named after this ship, then herself, and without any noticeable changes in configuration (a la Renown 1944 or Belfast 1943), is turned into a premium ship. That's why I guess this is an impromptu move, if this is planned earlier, we would have seen promotional premium Stord and/or Svenner (or some other War Emergency Programme destroyer transferred postwar to Turkey/Yugoslavia: ex-Oribi, ex-Wager or ex-Kempenfelt) as a researchable ship.

http://navypedia.org/ships/uk/brit_dd_s_t_u_v_w.htm

http://navypedia.org/ships/uk/brit_dd_o_p.htm

Edited September 8, 2023 by Project45_Opytny

[New_Jersey_prpr]

On 9/8/2023 at 1:00 PM, Project45_Opytny said:

with "classic" British 120-mm ballistics, perhaps only stupidly low drag and/or high Krupp value can make the AP worthwhile.

Having AP is at least better than not having AP anyway.

On 9/8/2023 at 4:56 AM, Tricericon said:

I always thought Scharnhorst-clone-interpreted-as-a-cruiser would make a great T10 German answer to Puerto Rico, Stalingrad, or Yoshino. Pity they are going a different direction.

The Dutch T10 can be considered a Scharnhorst interpreted as cruiser in some way?