Coal Ships-- which t9/t10s to avoid getting.

[Chysagon]

Coal Ships-- which t9/t10s to avoid getting.

Ones i have got with coal.

Kearsarge

Marco Polo

Pommern 

Marceau

[ZeuSueZ1337]

Perhaps a bit more info before we can provide usefull feedback:

- DD, CL/CA, BB, CV or sub main?

- Do you have preferred branches or styles of play?

- Do you have any 21-pts captains that you could use on the boat you choose?

All of the above should at least to some degree factor into your pick.

Edit:

As I read the OP @Chysagon already have; Kearsarge, MP, Pommy & Marceau in port? Or am I missing something?

Edited September 6, 2023 by ZeuSueZ1337
Typos etc.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

18 minutes ago, Chysagon said:

Coal Ships-- which t9/t10s to avoid getting.

Ones i have got with coal.

Kearsarge

Marco Polo

Pommern 

Marceau

I wouldn't avoid Kearsarge and Marceau since they are OP A-F.

I totally agree on Pommern and Marco Polo, they are really crap. I would nominate: Tromp - When you get passed the gimmick of the airstrikes its sooo situational. You could have a good game if there is no CV, No Hybrids, no radars and if any team are pushing you in straight line. You have no smoke and no heal and no AA and you move like a Yamato.

On the plus side I would highly recommend Malta, Black, Marceau, Sheman (OP), Groningen, Kearsarge, 

 

[MidnightPhoenix07]

32 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I totally agree on Pommern and Marco Polo, they are really crap. I would nominate: Tromp - When you get passed the gimmick of the airstrikes its sooo situational. You could have a good game if there is no CV, No Hybrids, no radars and if any team are pushing you in straight line. You have no smoke and no heal and no AA and you move like a Yamato.

I'd also add Z-44 to the avoid list. It's "good" if you want a German ship for torp hit ribbons, but it sacrifices a lot to get "discount Benham" torps. 

[MichaelJakaSwifty]

Tier IX Tulsa is a steamy dung turd...

[slokill_1]

Gotta say I really like Pommern.  You may have been kidding about it not being a good bote, but I can see spme not liking it, same as any other ship.

Very popular bote in ranked, and one I play a lot in ranked.  Deadly 2ndary to 12.5 km; hydro to 6 km to hunt down the rats; 6 km torps for the hug you know you want to give: 10 km depth charges for the turds.  Really a porcupine.

[UnrepentantSinner]

39 minutes ago, MichaelJakaSwifty said:

Tier IX Tulsa is a steamy dung turd...

 

Indeed, it's so bad i traded it in for Tier VIII San Diego. 

In my opinion, OP should also avoid Alvaro de Bazan and Azuma.

[Tricericon]

I have two coal ships.

Salem I rate meh, although I should note her preferred playstyle runs counter to my preferences - I'm much better at dancing than hugging islands, and I'm not good at timing my superheals - and she may be better in other hands and she isn't bad, just didn't wow me.

Yoshino I find to be hilarious fun, which also runs counter to public opinion. She's one of my favorites and has rapidly climbed to be one of my most played ships.

I don't regret either coal expenditure.

[___V_E_N_O_M___]

6 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I wouldn't avoid Kearsarge and Marceau since they are OP A-F.

I totally agree on Pommern and Marco Polo, they are really crap. I would nominate: Tromp - When you get passed the gimmick of the airstrikes its sooo situational. You could have a good game if there is no CV, No Hybrids, no radars and if any team are pushing you in straight line. You have no smoke and no heal and no AA and you move like a Yamato.

On the plus side I would highly recommend Malta, Black, Marceau, Sheman (OP), Groningen, Kearsarge, 

 

Pommern is op

[Dareios]

I wouldnt avoid any of them, but there may be some more desirable than others depending on your play style

[Wolfswetpaws]

7 hours ago, Chysagon said:

Coal Ships-- which t9/t10s to avoid getting.

Ones i have got with coal.

Kearsarge

Marco Polo

Pommern 

Marceau

I've not welcomed the Kearsarge to my Port because of the USN rocket planes having a long delay between pulling the trigger and the rockets actually firing.

I do have the Iwami, and have zero regrets about welcoming her to my Port.
The Iwami isn't complicated, and that's one of her virtues. 
Her torpedoes have a long range and pack a wallop.  Her guns are decent and she's got a fair number of them.
Her hull benefits from hoisting a "speed-flag" and can exceed 29 knots.  With rudder-shift improvements she can "wiggle" decently (for a battleship).
In the past I've sailed her to complete the bulk of a lengthy "earn potential damage" mission.  She hung-tough in that role, I felt.
Bottom line?  I like the Iwami.

I welcomed the Z-44 because I wanted a ship for a Commander who didn't have one.  That's my reason and I'm sticking to it.  🙂
That said, I think the Z-44 is okay, but definitely not over-powered.

I've welcomed the Black, and have no regrets.  She's a fun 'bote to sail.  A good "all arounder" and the radar consumable is useful.

The Neustrashimy, for me, was a result from opening a "loot crate" during a past Christmas holiday season.  I play her as a stealthy torpedo 'bote.
The repair party consumable is nice to have.  As coal ships go, she's got quite a price-tag.  (To be fair, the Black has the same price-tag.)
On balance, I think the Black is more "fun" and lively to play, but the Neustrashimy offers a different, and perhaps more challenging, flavor of play.
I'll leave that decision up to you.

The Brisbane.
I've recently welcomed her and thoroughly enjoy sailing her in Co-op and pushing her to the limits of her maneuvering and ordnance delivering capacity.
When combined with Commander Matilda Kelly, the Brisbane is an entertaining 'bote to sail, in my opinion.
Like all cruisers, playing the Brisbane in a random battle requires sound judgement and nerves of steel. 
But, I feel the Brisbane has potential to provide some interesting game-play.
I've no regrets with this combination of ship & commander.  🙂 

The Napoli and the Yoshino.
I love 'em both.  And they're very different 'botes.  🙂
~Napoli is nimble and her secondaries are fun to use.  Her main-guns are slightly bigger than most of her competition.  Her torpedoes are good to have.
She's a versatile Cruiser that can be stealthy and can produce an Italian flavor of smoke-screen.  
Her virtues do come with some balancing trade-offs, so I suggest studying her wiki page carefully.
~The Yoshino is a 'bote I enjoy because she has big guns (for a Cruiser) and her numerous torpedoes pack a wallop that can be delivered at respectable ranges.
In Co-op battles she can dish-out the damage.
In randoms her trade-offs become more apparent.  She's a LARGE CRUISER and not the most nimble, even with rudder-shift upgrades, and requires a fair amount of room to turn a full circle.  Opponents can spot her from medium to long ranges, and her hull armor scheme isn't the tankiest.
That said, she has a decent suite of consumables and savvy players will be able to make use of her strengths while minimizing her exposure to risks.

The Azuma.
I welcomed the Azuma before the Yoshino.  They're "sisters", but the Azuma doesn't have torpedoes.
This simplifies her play-style.  She shares hull virtues/vices/quirks with the Yoshino, because the Yoshino is based upon her.
I like the Azuma, but that might have more to do with me being a fan of Azur Lane and Commander A.L. Azuma's pleasant voice lines.
So, I suggest reading the wiki and making your comparisons in order to reach a decision.

The Agir.
The Agir feels "tankier" than the Azuma.
But the Agir has smaller main-guns and a comparatively lower fire-starting chance.  Her torpedoes are decent for close-range work.
I welcomed her to my Port in exchange for 1 million FreeXP.
I don't regret my decision.  But, I encourage people to carefully compare the Agir with her competitors, and note the virtues, vices, quirks and trade-offs.

The Hayate.
For me the Hayate was a personal quest to earn two million FreeXP and welcome her before she was re-categorized as a coal-ship.
I'm glad to say "mission accomplished".
That said, I feel the Hayate is "something different" compared to the Shimakaze. 
In other words, for the "player who has everything else" the Hayate offers a somewhat challenging play-style and some Collector's Club completionism value.
The proposed changes to the Hayate (on the Russian server) would be welcome as future changes here on the NA server, in my opinion.
Others have written forum posts in the past which assert that the Hayate, as she is now, isn't as competitive as other Tier-10 Destroyers.
Do I like the Hayate, personally?  Yes.  But, for me that's more about the satisfaction of earning the FreeXP and completing my personal quest.
Your mileage may vary.  🙂 

The Khabarovsk.
Again, welcoming this 'bote was a personal quest (to get the required ShipXP) which I accomplished before she became a coal-ship.
She shares similarities in play-style with other Russian-line Destroyers. 
I'm still training the Commander, so my Khabarovsk is still working-up to her full potential.
Again, "collector value" and a flavor of play which may appeal to some players.  I encourage people to shop wisely and make well-informed decisions.

The Grosser Kurfurst.
Big.  Requires a huge area to turn a circle.  Has decent guns and a fair amount of them.  Good speed for a battleship.
I welcomed her before the change from tech-tree ship to coal-ship.
If one plays to her strengths, then she may succeed.  That said, I find such a play-style a bit boring.  Others disagree and feel she's exactly what they enjoy.
I'll leave that decision up to you.  🙂 

Edited to add:  So, what would I avoid?
I'd avoid what I've already avoided.
Kearsarge because I'm not a fan of the rocket planes.
Salem because I feel her playstyle is HE-spam boring.
F. Sherman for the same reason, just another HE spam 'bote and a slow 'bote as DD's go.
Tulsa, Carnot, Moskva because they don't have torpedoes.

Edited September 7, 2023 by Wolfswetpaws

[WES_HoundDog]

Looking at the Pommern,  It's looks too good to be true.  However it plays like a turd.  It's like all the gimmicks are designed to kill you.   Fire all your impressive number of guns?  Your better off doing a full circle to get back to protecting your broadside and don't expect your shells to hit much or for much when you do.   Want to fire your secondaries?  Same deal.    Don't get me wrong, fighting against this ship can be misery.  But for me, it's also misery to play.

 

Hayate,  This one i like a bit more.  Yeah it's not really good at anything, but i guess that's why i like it because it's not really gimped anywhere.  It allows me to adjust my role and gameplay to the situations presented.

[Verytis]

In general, avoid T9s unless you want to play alternative modes (ranked/brawl/CB).

Or you really want that credit boost despite being gimped in some form against T10s.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

11 hours ago, slokill_1 said:

Gotta say I really like Pommern.  You may have been kidding about it not being a good bote, but I can see spme not liking it, same as any other ship.

Very popular bote in ranked, and one I play a lot in ranked.  Deadly 2ndary to 12.5 km; hydro to 6 km to hunt down the rats; 6 km torps for the hug you know you want to give: 10 km depth charges for the turds.  Really a porcupine.

 

8 hours ago, ___V_E_N_O_M___ said:

Pommern is op

I loved Pommern when I got it when it was released. Torps, german secondarys, hydro? Yes please! But then came a boat load of unbalanced/broken/OP T10, then came Superships and Super carriers, than came submarines .....

 

Not so great anymore (imho).

Ships on my "get in the future" list is probably Napoli and maybe De Bazan, but not totally convinced. Actually have the coal for a ship right now, but considering my luck if I buy Napoli right now WG will release a new Broken/must have coal ship tomorrow. So I wait a bit and see what the future brings first, there is no rush for Napoli, have Venezia and thats pretty strong as well.

[iDuckman]

@Chysagon Don't avoid getting *any* Coal ship.  They're frickin' free.  Simply prioritize.

Otoh, your lack of a Salem calls several things into question. Also to a lesser extent Napoli.

[___V_E_N_O_M___]

10 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

 

I loved Pommern when I got it when it was released. Torps, german secondarys, hydro? Yes please! But then came a boat load of unbalanced/broken/OP T10, then came Superships and Super carriers, than came submarines .....

 

Not so great anymore (imho).

Ships on my "get in the future" list is probably Napoli and maybe De Bazan, but not totally convinced. Actually have the coal for a ship right now, but considering my luck if I buy Napoli right now WG will release a new Broken/must have coal ship tomorrow. So I wait a bit and see what the future brings first, there is no rush for Napoli, have Venezia and thats pretty strong as well.

Napoli is a must have, avoid Bazan (Tier 10 Paolo Emilio) outgunned versus other dds

[MBT808]

20 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

he Agir.
The Agir feels "tankier" than the Azuma.
But the Agir has smaller main-guns and a comparatively lower fire-starting chance

The fire chance(27%) is the same and the main battery caliber are functionally the same, so mentioning caliber is irrelevant to performance here.

20 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

~Napoli is nimble and her secondaries are fun to use.  Her main-guns are slightly bigger than most of her competition. 

Its important to note Napoli's accuracy is very trollish on her main battery due to the IJN BB(ish) dispersion she has. Objectively, Moskva has far superior guns despite being smaller. Her secondaries are relegated to Co-op only largely.

[Wolfswetpaws]

11 minutes ago, MBT808 said:

21 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

he Agir.
The Agir feels "tankier" than the Azuma.
But the Agir has smaller main-guns and a comparatively lower fire-starting chance

The fire chance(27%) is the same and the main battery caliber are functionally the same, so mentioning caliber is irrelevant to performance here.

21 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

~Napoli is nimble and her secondaries are fun to use.  Her main-guns are slightly bigger than most of her competition. 

Its important to note Napoli's accuracy is very trollish on her main battery due to the IJN BB(ish) dispersion she has. Objectively, Moskva has far superior guns despite being smaller. Her secondaries are relegated to Co-op only largely.

Thanks for weighing-in.  The Azuma's main guns are 310mm, the Agir's are 305mm. 
You're correct about there being very little practical difference in diameter, and they do share the same fire chance (27%).  
For whatever reason, it merely feels like the Agir's guns don't pack the same wallop in my experience.  Could be I need to get more experience?  🙂 

   

So, yes, comparing player impressions and verifying facts via wiki-pages or in-game examination of a ship's equipment is worth the effort.  🙂 
 

[MBT808]

2 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

For whatever reason, it merely feels like the Agir's guns don't pack the same wallop in my experience.  Could be I need to get more experience?

If your spamming HE only, Agir doesn't pack the same punch without question. However in terms of pure damage output, its very deceptive. Agirs HE dpm or per salvo isn't as good as Azuma, but with the 1/4 HE pen its more reliable which helps make up the difference the longer the game goes on(especially against BBs).

However, when we switch to AP, its a different story. Agir's HE isn't spectacular for her caliber, but her AP is arguably the second best amongst super cruisers(if we ignore Siegfried). You have excellent DPM, ballistics, and penetration. Her AP benefits significantly from heavy AP, allowing her to deal some very heavy damage salvos to even BBs with good aim.

Because of how Agir's ammunition works, you need expert loader in order to switch shells as the situation changes during the battle. Agir requires you to utilize both shells in order to maximize her effectiveness, which is contrast to Azuma(and Yoshino) who can get by just spamming their HE alone. When played properly, Agir is arguably one of the best super cruisers amongst her tier IX compatriots. However, she does require a skilled captain as a result and most captains these days don't have what it takes.

I'd also add that, a better thing to contrast with Azuma would be her surviveability in your post. Azuma has a quick reloading heal, but its a bandaid solution to her horrible armor. Azumas can, and often will, get devstruck either by overmatching her weak plating or getting her citadel blown out(which makes your quick heal matter far less) because of how exposed it is if caught out. Agir's very well protected by comparison and she has a large HE pool. Sure, your 90mm side plate will absorb a fair amount of pen damage, but pen damage is much more preferable to citadel damage.

[Wolfswetpaws]

17 minutes ago, MBT808 said:

If your spamming HE only, Agir doesn't pack the same punch without question. However in terms of pure damage output, its very deceptive. Agirs HE dpm or per salvo isn't as good as Azuma, but with the 1/4 HE pen its more reliable which helps make up the difference the longer the game goes on(especially against BBs).

However, when we switch to AP, its a different story. Agir's HE isn't spectacular for her caliber, but her AP is arguably the second best amongst super cruisers(if we ignore Siegfried). You have excellent DPM, ballistics, and penetration. Her AP benefits significantly from heavy AP, allowing her to deal some very heavy damage salvos to even BBs with good aim.

Because of how Agir's ammunition works, you need expert loader in order to switch shells as the situation changes during the battle. Agir requires you to utilize both shells in order to maximize her effectiveness, which is contrast to Azuma(and Yoshino) who can get by just spamming their HE alone. When played properly, Agir is arguably one of the best super cruisers amongst her tier IX compatriots. However, she does require a skilled captain as a result and most captains these days don't have what it takes.

I'd also add that, a better thing to contrast with Azuma would be her surviveability in your post. Azuma has a quick reloading heal, but its a bandaid solution to her horrible armor. Azumas can, and often will, get devstruck either by overmatching her weak plating or getting her citadel blown out(which makes your quick heal matter far less) because of how exposed it is if caught out. Agir's very well protected by comparison and she has a large HE pool. Sure, your 90mm side plate will absorb a fair amount of pen damage, but pen damage is much more preferable to citadel damage.

Hence the Agir's "tankier" feel.

[That WoT Player]

I don’t have any buyers remorse for any of the ships I got with coal, but I can say I don’t like how DDs play in the current climate, so I avoid them. 
 

I’ve always liked battleships, and I find the super cruisers to be very fun to play. Carnot, Napoli, Azuma, Moskva, Agir: they’re all fun for me. Georgia is great, if you can get over her short range. Malta makes Minotaurs and Worchesters squeal, if you’re into that. 

[Chysagon]

I will get Napoli and Salem sooner or later...Napoli interests me more to be honest.

Been on a bit of a french bender at the moment.--😜.No idea why,been groping my way slowly through the french DD tech tree .

[Zaydin]

Can't say I have any interest in the Salem but that's because I have the Des Moines.

[Chysagon]

Also as a side note---nothing in this game is actually free, f2p yes,but it depends how much we value our free time.in the end everything we get in this game is from our time spent playing...so even getting coal is proportional to time played-so not truly free.

This game i play for fun not as a career.

I spend some of my freetime in this game,some with my family and friends,maintaining my home etc.

Time is the one thing we will eventually run out of in the end.

 

[tocqueville8]

I'd avoid:

1) Tromp - poor survivability and limited impact in a MM full of subs, DDs and radar cruisers. Great at farming BBs, the trouble is getting there...

2) Iwami - I like mine, but you already have the Pommern. Same for GK, unless you specifically want a Tier 10 brawler for various modes.

3) Tulsa - get Salem instead

4) Khabarovsk, unless you're prepared to grind the Legendary Upgrade and/or learn to sail this massive brick of a DD. Awful concealment, awful rudder, awful range, surprisingly low hp for a supposed "cruiser without a citadel"...

I actually like the Bazan, which incidentally is nothing like the Paolo Emilio...