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DD players who die right at the start.


3LUE

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Those high-tier DD players who die at the start of every game and put their team down a DD over and over. The ones who screamed they had no support, but never thought to look around or on the minimap to see if they had support. They are the ones who charge right into a cap with three radar ships on the enemy team and then wonder why they are radared and dead. The ones who get spotted then smoke up sit broadside in it and get torpedoed. I have to wonder if some of these folks are in this video. 

 

Edited by 3LUE
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DD players who rush out & die in the first few minutes are not restricted to T10. They are in (almost) all tiers. One of the problems is War Failing doesn't care so long as the player is spending money. Also, note how often your team gets these dismal DD players - this is more than 50% - this tells you something, as well, about how WG operates.

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6 minutes ago, Aethervox said:

DD players who rush out & die in the first few minutes are not restricted to T10. They are in (almost) all tiers. One of the problems is War Failing doesn't care so long as the player is spending money. Also, note how often your team gets these dismal DD players - this is more than 50% - this tells you something, as well, about how WG operates.

True, but you would assume by high tier they would know better. But I guess that is just assuming too much about the player base. You are correct about WG for sure. 

Edited by 3LUE
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1 hour ago, 3LUE said:

Those high-tier DD players who die at the start of every game and put their team down a DD over and over.

High tier ??? Lucky there's any DDs OR cruisers left playing up there. I digress, high tiers is an acquired taste.

With all the anti-DD mechanics in play in which the lethality is off the charts at high tiers... I can't blame a DD player at all times when it happens.

 

Edited by Navalpride33
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9 minutes ago, Navalpride33 said:

High tier ??? Lucky there's any DDs OR cruisers left playing up there. I digress, high tiers is an acquired taste.

With all the anti-DD mechanics in play in which the lethality is off the charts at high tiers... I can't blame a DD player at all times when it happens.

 

I can certainly blame a DD player that dies early.

DDs are pretty easy to keep alive, if you don't play stupidly aggressive.

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Sometimes you eat a RDF aimed torp. It happens. I generally eat torps when a well intentioned cruiser or BB "backs me up" and I end up dancing around the torps aimed for them... this is a much less common issue when you are part of a div and can count on support (and effective comms).

Camping in smoke past Tier 7 is generally fairly reckless, although some of the DD's that have good Hydro (Vampire-2 and German mainline DD's) can get away with it better than others. Camping in smoke IN A CAP is generally fatal, broadside or not. 

Gunboat DD's sometimes just get focused when "stealthier" DD's can keep them spotted. In general when I am playing DD I'm balancing my safety against the teams objectives - I guarantee you'd prefer a more "reckless" DD over one who camps with the BB's and lets the enemy DD's roll your flanks.

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There's the speedrunner, the quarter speed adventurer, the map edges explorer, the captain Ahab and the smoker. All equally useless. Except sometimes Ahab. 

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I suck at DDs. Currently I think I suck slightly less than I used to, but I still rank high in the suckage stakes. InfantSmiley.gif.36687bda30d8d2ce27edd92ce0de8954.gif

Of course I only play COOP so it's not that big a deal, but I think part of the problem is that I get tunnel vision trying to get my torps happening ... because I last longer in my DD gunboats.

Of course it might just be the Ghod of Dakka shielding me! cap_rambo_small.gif.8de176d0f6a1b0a6f065ee9268691e48.gif

Generally I figure when someone messes up in a DD it's a non-DD main who's working on a mission.

 

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1 hour ago, SunkCostFallacy said:

Generally I figure when someone messes up in a DD it's a non-DD main who's working on a mission.

Why pick on me all the time.

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To be fair, it is often difficult to find balance...

If you play too aggressively, well, as you said - you die.

But if you play too passively, you are giving up map control, cap control, and more importantly, spotting advantage to the enemy. And while not immediately lethal, such a starting disadvantage can be massively troublesome later on.

So playing a DD is basically a knife-edge balancing act of progressive (scouting, capping, hunting enemy DD), conservative (staying alive) and reactionary (cockblocking the enemy DD by either counter-spotting him or simply being a threat) playstyle.

All and all, I think hard before terming (even internally) an early-dead DD as an incompetent.

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11 minutes ago, Ferdinand_Max said:

All and all, I think hard before terming (even internally) an early-dead DD as an incompetent.

Yes. It's a dangerous job, and playing it too passively gimps your flank from the get-go. As a rule I prefer the speedrunner who at least scouted for a while thus allowing the rest to make decisions about positioning to the guy who quarter speeds at the start and proceeds to faff about behind some island. 

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Some of them are people who are trying too hard to do their job, having been berated the previous battle for not trying hard enough.

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This is my pet peeve with Arms race, a stoopid game mode created by WG that should really be called "Snowball effect" instead because they take already fast 10 min steamroll T10 games and shorten them to superfast 6 min games, of course with all the flags and eco booster wasted and extra gravy for WeeGee.

Arms race forces even competent DD players, DD players that in every game they play analyse:

  1. the team roosters to see what DDs is on enemy team, concealment
  2. what radars enemy team has and their range/duration
  3. what divs there are, any DD hunting divs?
  4. is there a CV and which
  5. subs and which
  6. known streamers/Youtubers
  7. known clans

But then we take all the experience, knowledge and skill and just throw it out the window because WeeGee in their divine knowledge wants you as a DD to Leroy Jenkins right into middle of the map, right at start, to grab a buff where all the enemy team will be pre-aimed, all radar will be, all subs and DDs already pre-launched torps, and where CVs will fly first, since everyone knows where the buff in middle are and the fact that DDs have to go for them unless they want to just give a Huge advantage away to the enemy team for free.

No decent DD player wants to go aggressive at start because they all know that is a certain death. You want to play a bit chill at start, get the lay of the land, let most reds get spotted on the minimap so you know where all the ships are so you can adjust your tactic accordingly, choose when you gonna cap/steal back a cap (for example, expect that radar cruisers sit by caps first 6-8 min but then they usually move, so plan around that), when you make you're play etc etc. But in Arms race you can forget about all this. 

Airship escort had the same exact problems, but fortunately WG stopped having it in Random que.

Edited by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube
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7 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

This is my pet peeve with Arms race, a stoopid game mode created by WG that should really be called "Snowball effect" instead because they take already fast 10 min steamroll T10 games and shorten them to superfast 6 min games, of course with all the flags and eco booster wasted and extra gravy for WeeGee.

Arms race forces even competent DD players, DD players that in every game they play analyse:

  1. the team roosters to see what DDs is on enemy team, concealment
  2. what radars enemy team has and their range/duration
  3. what divs there are, any DD hunting divs?
  4. is there a CV and which
  5. subs and which
  6. known streamers/Youtubers
  7. known clans

But then we take all the experience, knowledge and skill and just throw it out the window because WeeGee in their divine knowledge wants you as a DD to Leroy Jenkins right into middle of the map, right at start, to grab a buff where all the enemy team will be pre-aimed, all radar will be, all subs and DDs already pre-launched torps, and where CVs will fly first, since everyone knows where the buff in middle are and the fact that DDs have to go for them unless they want to just give a Huge advantage away to the enemy team for free.

No decent DD player wants to go aggressive at start because they all know that is a certain death. You want to play a bit chill at start, get the lay of the land, let most reds get spotted on the minimap so you know where all the ships are so you can adjust your tactic accordingly, choose when you gonna cap/steal back a cap, when you make you're play etc etc. But in Arms race you can forget about all this. 

Ah yes, the fallacy that only DDs can cap or grab buffs...

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23 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

This is my pet peeve with Arms race, a stoopid game mode created by WG that should really be called "Snowball effect" instead because they take already fast 10 min steamroll T10 games and shorten them to superfast 6 min games, of course with all the flags and eco booster wasted and extra gravy for WeeGee.

Gotta push more players into the queue. 

There's also the opposite annoyance of powerups mode, having to wait around the spawn to grab some stupid parachute drop instead of going to actually play the game. 

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16 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

There's also the opposite annoyance of powerups mode, having to wait around the spawn to grab some stupid parachute drop instead of going to actually play the game. 

That is also a good point, when the "end game circle" in the middle has spawned, do you go for it or do you take a massive detour around the outer areas to pick up 2 different high value buffs? Its just a game mode that pretty much takes everyone's skill and experience (and brains ....) out of the game and still ... about 70% of the players im stuck with have zero knowledge of what that center circle is all about because they are border humping their way into next week ........... ´s losses....

There are about 100´s reasons to delete this game mode or put it into a special que, that WG seems to try in the next update, but then its even more Stoopid because every buff will be in middle so lets just call that game mode for what it is "3 min Suicide mode", and there is really no reasons to keep it in.

 

IF we are THAT desperate after other new game modes that we dont care how dumb they are then why not just add back whatever they were called, the ones that even WG took away, the one with the forts on land and the one which had the big circle in the middle? Then we could just bunch all these modes together in a separate que called "Average Joe´s playlist" or something and then the rest of us, who actually like to play using our brains, experience and skills, and actually care about winning could have a clean que with just regular 3-4 cap dom and standard battle.,

Edited by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube
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14 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

IF we are THAT desperate after other new game modes that we dont care how dumb they are then why not just add back whatever they were called, the ones that even WG took away, the one with the forts on land and the one which had the big circle in the middle? 

 

Bastion and Epicentre.

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11 hours ago, Aethervox said:

DD players who rush out & die in the first few minutes are not restricted to T10. They are in (almost) all tiers. One of the problems is War Failing doesn't care so long as the player is spending money. Also, note how often your team gets these dismal DD players - this is more than 50% - this tells you something, as well, about how WG operates.

 

Yes, perhaps WG should step in and determine what you are allowed to play in WOWS.  Perhaps they should install an automatic override to play your game for you when you try to take an action that isn't what you should be doing in the game.  Perhaps they should determine if they should just prevent you from playing the game at all unless you meet goals for performance.

 

Yes, since it's all WGs fault, i would say it would be fair for WG to simply keep players from playing at all and charge the players for the additional work required to play the game as well as administer and develop it.

 

 

Edited by Jakob Knight
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I'm amused at the hate for arms race.

It at least allows for more dynamic gameplay by having MOVING points of strategic relevance...

But no, playing a map to a predetermined script because of the islands and the static caps is 'high intelligence' play...

LOL

Is arms race good? No...but it is different, and it does require more on the fly thinking than the other standard modes.

(Perhaps that's why people are so terrible at playing it...hmm.)

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44 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

 

Yes, perhaps WG should step in and determine what you are allowed to play in WOWS.  Perhaps they should install an automatic override to play your game for you when you try to take an action that isn't what you should be doing in the game.  Perhaps they should determine if they should just prevent you from playing the game at all unless you meet goals for performance.

 

Yes, since it's all WGs fault, i would say it would be fair for WG to simply keep players from playing at all and charge the players for the additional work required to play the game as well as administer and develop it.

 

 

Lol this made me laugh thanks!

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4 hours ago, clammboy said:

Lol this made me laugh thanks!

 

I laugh too, but it's mixed with tears of frustration.  The absolute futility of getting people to think and be wise is certainly evident in many events outside the game these days, so expecting WG to somehow be able to do this within the game (and thus be responsible for any failure therein) is absurd.

 

The best we can do when we see players playing badly is let them know to come here to find advice on how to improve or take them under our wing and teach them.  Even then, there is no guarantee they will be better players, and we end up wondering (as teachers down throughout history have done) if there is just something wrong with the majority of Humanity.

 

Ultimately, players are the ones who make themselves good or bad players, and that is where any responsibility lies.

 

 

Edited by Jakob Knight
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1 hour ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I'm amused at the hate for arms race.

It at least allows for more dynamic gameplay by having MOVING points of strategic relevance...

But no, playing a map to a predetermined script because of the islands and the static caps is 'high intelligence' play...

LOL

Is arms race good? No...but it is different, and it does require more on the fly thinking than the other standard modes.

(Perhaps that's why people are so terrible at playing it...hmm.)

I think you would see that hate explode into Epic proportions if WG made it so Subs and DDs wouldn't be able to pick up any buffs or take any caps, so it would be up to all cruiser players and BB players to push into middle at start and then try and survive. THAT would be some "Dynamic gameplay "right there! Imagine the epic battles!

But since all these game modes (Arms race, Airship escort, Epicenter, 3-4 cap dom mode) is almost exclusively down to DDs doing suicide missions (rarely see a Vermont pushing in to drag an airship, or a Yamato pushing in to middle of the map to grab a buff), then its a small part of the playerbase (DD mains) that feel the full wrath of this (WG´s) stupidity.

Would you think it was "dynamic gameplay" if you in you're BB had to give up all you're experience/skill and just push in to die? Or would you also be a bit mad? Its easy to write it off as whining when the stupidity don't effect you (ex. BBs sitting in corner just getting better damage for all the buffs the DDs died picking up). I know I dont care much when I happen to pick a BB and its Arms race because I know I can play EXACTLY the way I would if it had been 3 cap dom mode. Im usually just salty because I just wasted a ton of flags and boosters on what will probably be a short and shitty game.

Guess which class gets blamed when not taking a cap at start or giving it away "for free" without even risking you're life to stall it for a couple of seconds? Guess which class gets blamed for missing taking a buff, or for that matter taking a buff and dying in the progress? So you get blamed and reported no matter what you do pretty much ... sweet eeh?

Old Epicenter is also different, then what was the problem with that?

Bastion was also different, what was the problem with that?!               

 ...... was it perhaps because it also affected cruiser and BB class?! I dont know, but maybe that was the case? Maybe no one gives an F because these latest mostly affect DD class? But then threads like this gets created and some players wonder why DDs suicide in first 3 min of each game ..... guess what, WG´s game modes TELLS THEM TO....! !

And understand, Most of the DD players out there isn't Flambass or any other Super unicum DD player, most of them are pretty crap at this game, have poor understanding of detection, radar, plane spotting and basic mechanics ...... and then THE GAME MODES TELL THEM "Go into this small cap circle in middle" .... "Hey, pick up this BS buff in the middle of the map in open water"  .... "Hey, stay in this small circle that the enemy team will see at all times and push this BS airship around" ....! ! 

So no, im not that surprised we see dead DDs at start of the game at every tier but especially at T10 with Superships and Super CVs etc etc etc.

This awesome Monty Python sketch comes to mind when talking about these modes....

If the team ALWAYS will know where the enemy DD will be, its not really that hard with all the tool we have at T10, to set up a perfect ambush and kill them, strangely NO ONE will know forehand where the cruisers and BBs will be, you have to wait for them actually to get spotted (often when they shoot the first salv ointo you) to know where they are! 

I for one wont do what WG tells me so if im in a DD and Arms race comes I will take the buff that is more closer to the team if I spawn on that flank but if I spawn on the flank where the buff is in the middle I will gladly give it away for free, and when the circle pops up in the middle and red team has 4 ships of different classes surrounding the borders, I will not push in if my BBs and cruisers are hugging the borders.

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Just now, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I think you would see that hate explode into Epic proportions if WG made it so Subs and DDs wouldn't be able to pick up any buffs or take any caps, so it would be up to all cruiser players and BB players to push into middle at start and then try and survive. THAT would be some "Dynamic gameplay "right there! Imagine the epic battles!

As a guy who caps with a CV, I share your frustration with folks who don't understand risk / reward with ships.

1 minute ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

But since all these game modes (Arms race, Airship escort, Epicenter, 3-4 cap dom mode) is almost exclusively down to DDs doing suicide missions (rarely see a Vermont pushing in to drag an airship, or a Yamato pushing in to middle of the map to grab a buff), then its a small part of the playerbase (DD mains) that feel the full wrath of this (WG´s) stupidity.

I don't see it that way.

All of these modes create different locations for your spotting ships and tools to help the fleet win the firepower game.

A DD doesn't need to suicide to win a cap or to get to a buff...he just needs patience and understanding of the role...skills which most players just don't possess.

3 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Would you think it was "dynamic gameplay" if you in you're BB had to give up all you're experience/skill and just push in to die? Or would you also be a bit mad? Its easy to write it off as whining when the stupidity don't effect you (ex. BBs sitting in corner just getting better damage for all the buffs the DDs died picking up). I know I dont care much when I happen to pick a BB and its Arms race because I know I can play EXACTLY the way I would if it had been 3 cap dom mode. Im usually just salty because I just wasted a ton of flags and boosters on what will probably be a short and shitty game.

Again, I push in with a CV...the difference is, I know how to do it without dying. Same with battleships and cruisers.

Knowing HOW and WHEN to put yourself into more aggressive positions and win the consequential actions is called skill.

If you play arms race the same way you play a three cap mode, you are not playing skillfully. It's time to up your game.

5 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Guess which class gets blamed when not taking a cap at start or giving it away "for free" without even risking you're life to stall it for a couple of seconds? Guess which class gets blamed for missing taking a buff, or for that matter taking a buff and dying in the progress? So you get blamed and reported no matter what you do pretty much ... sweet eeh?

Guess how much I care about getting 'blamed' for not doing stupid stuff by fools in random matches who don't know what they are talking about?

Here's a hint...I play CV. I have thick skin. You should too....most people have no clue how to play the game. Do not value their opinions.

8 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Epicenter is also different, then what was the problem with that?

Epicenter was boring. Sit hull down in predictable spots and hope RNG benefits the sniping. It's different, but less interesting to me.

8 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Bastion was also different, what was the problem with that?!     

I never got to play Bastion...

9 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

And understand, Most of the DD players out there isn't Flambass or any other Super unicum DD player, most of them are pretty crap at this game, have poor understanding of detection, radar, plane spotting and basic mechanics ...... and then THE GAME MODES TELL THEM "Go into this small cap circle in middle" .... "Hey, pick up this BS buff in the middle of the map in open water"  .... "Hey, stay in this small circle that the enemy team will see at all times and push this BS airship around" ....! ! 

So no, im not that surprised we see dead DDs at start of the game at every tier but especially at T10 with Superships and Super CVs etc etc etc.

This awesome Monty Python sketch comes to mind when talking about these modes....

I see these guys die early in normal randoms.

It's not like the new mode increases the stupidity beyond the normal variation, in my experience.

10 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

If the team ALWAYS will know where the enemy DD will be, its not really that hard with all the tool we have at T10, to set up a perfect ambush and kill them, strangely NO ONE will know forehand where the cruisers and BBs will be, you have to wait for them actually to get spotted (often when they shoot the first salv ointo you) to know where they are! 

Same logic applies for caps, but maybe you think every DD has to contest the cap immediately at the start of the battle?

Low skill play.

11 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I for one wont do what WG tells me so if im in a DD and Arms race comes I will take the buff that is more closer to the team if I spawn on that flank but if I spawn on the flank where the buff is in the middle I will gladly give it away for free, and when the circle pops up in the middle and red team has 4 ships of different classes surrounding the borders, I will not push in if my BBs and cruisers are hugging the borders.

This is better play. You position yourself based on the risk / reward context.

As a ship in world of warships, you get often screwed by your own team. You can't always get a win. If your team doesn't do their job...but tries to blame you for the loss...

Ignore them.

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