How to Build a Battleships Main Guns - Is a Bigger Battery Better?

[Volron]

 

I found this to be an awesome explanation of how Battleship guns were made.  Drachinifel has always proven to be very knowledgeable in quite a few things.  His channel has not only proven to be entertaining, but very informative as well.

Hope ya'll enjoy!

 

[Latouche_Treville]

Yes, you never loose your time to watch his videos.

About this very one, my only "complain"  is that despite a lot of machines and devices are shown, i haven't seen any images of a rifling bench, so i can't figure out what it looks like.

[Asym]

Oh you mean these?

That's Bethlehem Steel in Bethlehem PA....  My maternal Grand Father ran one of the furnaces that made that 16 incher...  Bethlehem Steel made 8 inch through 16 barrels and an awful lot of the Turret, Citadel and side Armors for battleships.

[Asym]

On 5/11/2024 at 9:24 PM, Latouche_Treville said:

Yes, you never loose your time to watch his videos.

About this very one, my only "complain"  is that despite a lot of machines and devices are shown, i haven't seen any images of a rifling bench, so i can't figure out what it looks like.

A great many of the 14 inchers and up were actually smooth bores with Rifled barrel liners...  The 16 inch barrel above is a smooth bore with the liner added at a depot.

[Wolfswetpaws]

6 minutes ago, Asym said:

A great many of the 14 inchers and up were actually smooth bores with Rifled barrel liners...  The 16 inch barrel above is a smooth bore with the liner added at a depot.

This methodology is mentioned in the video.

[Asym]

9 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

This methodology is mentioned in the video.

I imagine it does... 

I learnt how this process worked because I grew up In Bethlehem PA and a good many of many generations of my Family worked there.  Specifically, in the Furnaces that made the actual steel for the Guns and the Armor.  Neighbors, where I grew up, also worked there in just about every function there is.  But, for this discussion, in the #2 Machine Shop, that my next door neighbor actually ran (managed)....  And, I got to wander around some of the most interesting "stuff" imaginable (pre-OSHA no less !!!)

This is a picture of only part of the #2 machine shop before WW1.  It was the largest machine shop in the world during WW2:

That's the USS Texas's Turrets and guns.  Imagine, the Iowa class guns, as seen above, in there....

This ^^^^ building is now a condominium and where the turrets are, is some sort of park or some such thing....

Here is a video to give you some perspective:  Bethlehem Steel Footage (1990) - YouTube

Imagine, the machining process for that 16 inch gun above, from a casting to what you see above, that gun tube is headed out of where it was machined....  That building was torn down.  What a shame.

 

 

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 minute ago, Asym said:

I imagine it does... 

I learnt how this process worked because I grew up In Bethlehem PA and a good many of many generations of my Family worked there.  Specifically, in the Furnaces that made the actual steel for the Guns and the Armor.  Neighbors, where I grew up, also worked there in just about every function there is.  But, for this discussion, in the #2 Machine Shop, that my next door neighbor actually ran (managed)....  And, I got to wander around some of the most interesting "stuff" imaginable (pre-OSHA no less !!!)

This is a picture of only part of the #2 machine shop before WW1.  It was the largest machine shop in the world during WW2:

That's the USS Texas's Turrets and guns.  Imagine, the Iowa class guns, as seen above, in there....

This ^^^^ building is now a condominium and where the turrets are, is some sort of park or some such thing....

Here is a video to give you some perspective:  Bethlehem Steel Footage (1990) - YouTube

Imagine, the machining process for that 16 inch gun above, from a casting to what you see above, that gun tube is headed out of where it was machined....  That building was torn down.  What a shame.

Mostly, as the video explained, battleship-sized guns were made using methods adapted from person-sized rifle and shotgun manufacturing.
The big guns manufacturing simply scaled-up the processes.
Sure, there are some additional complexities involving the handling of the "big stuff" and the heat-treatment had its own share of technical difficulties.
And, the "feature" of being able to replace the interior rifling lining of a barrel is an additional feature not found in person-sized rifles/shotguns.
For battleship sized guns, it makes sense.  

As for the disposition of the un-used buildings of Bethlehem Steel?
Cost of upkeep versus revenue generation, eh? 
Simple math for a company that is beholden to its shareholders and cannot expect to perform that type of work again.

I'm glad pictures of the facilities exist, to portray the history.

Re-activation of battleships would be costly, and the re-activation of their support facilities is a part of the overall cost.
Most of what a battleship can do is now done by other equipment & personnel, nowadays.

I'm glad we have Museum Ships to visit.

[Asym]

9 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

...
And, the "feature" of being able to replace the interior rifling lining of a barrel is an additional feature not found in person-sized rifles/shotguns.

I'm sorry, but sometimes you really make me giggle..... 

Several of my competitive Antique rifles (Marlins) are lined with barrel liners with competitive twist rate liners....  Specifically, engineered and designed to shoot gas checked, lead bullets designed for that rifle...  Sigh.  (as a note: competitive means that there is a massive amount of data to create twist rates that are effective.....it's not take a SAMI value and run with it....)

https://www.gunsamerica.com › digest › relining-a-barrel-or-how-to-make-a-barrel-like-new-again

 

And, believe it or not, it's the same process if it's a 32-40 or a 38-55 liner for a Marlin 1893 Lever action or a 16 inch liner.   The only difference is that rifle liners, when installed by experts, won't creep out of the barrel.  Battleship rifles, because of the dynamics involved actually do, creep out, and the muzzles have to be "trimmed" with a tool to re-crown the barrels.....  Crowning is an art form that equals accuracy......

 

So yes, you can and we do, and many of us "know" the technologies and practices involved in barrel relining.......because, it's what we do or part of where we actually worked or, in BB's or even tank guns, talked to the people whom did that stuff way back when.....

 

I hope that helps you and other know of how lining works.....

[Wolfswetpaws]

9 minutes ago, Asym said:

I'm sorry, but sometimes you really make me giggle..... 

Several of my competitive Antique rifles (Marlins) are lined with barrel liners with competitive twist rate liners....  Specifically, engineered and designed to shoot gas checked, lead bullets designed for that rifle...  Sigh.  (as a note: competitive means that there is a massive amount of data to create twist rates that are effective.....it's not take a SAMI value and run with it....)

https://www.gunsamerica.com › digest › relining-a-barrel-or-how-to-make-a-barrel-like-new-again

 

And, believe it or not, it's the same process if it's a 32-40 or a 38-55 liner for a Marlin 1893 Lever action or a 16 inch liner.   The only difference is that rifle liners, when installed by experts, won't creep out of the barrel.  Battleship rifles, because of the dynamics involved actually do, creep out, and the muzzles have to be "trimmed" with a tool to re-crown the barrels.....  Crowning is an art form that equals accuracy......

 

So yes, you can and we do, and many of us "know" the technologies and practices involved in barrel relining.......because, it's what we do or part of where we actually worked or, in BB's or even tank guns, talked to the people whom did that stuff way back when.....

 

I hope that helps you and other know of how lining works.....

As a percentage of overall rifle and shotgun production, your examples are in the tiny minority.  Essentially niche-market stuff.
That said, it's nice to know there were some who felt it was worthwhile, at the time.

Most of the guns I'm familiar with simply have barrels replaced instead of re-lined.  Because it's more cost-effective.

Edited to add:  After reading the article you linked, I would like to point out that the barrels in question weren't designed to be re-lined. 
They weren't created with a removeable "sleeve" that was intended to be removed and replaced.  
Drilling-out the interior of a rifled barrel of a person-sized rifle is not the same as heating the battleship barrel and removing (by sliding) the Original Equipment Manufacture barrel-liner and replacing it with a new barrel-liner.

 

Edited May 21 by Wolfswetpaws

[Asym]

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

As a percentage of overall rifle and shotgun production, your examples are in the tiny minority.  Essentially niche-market stuff.
That said, it's nice to know there were some who felt it was worthwhile, at the time.

Most of the guns I'm familiar with simply have barrels replaced instead of re-lined.  Because it's more cost-effective.

Edited to add:  After reading the article you linked, I would like to point out that the barrels in question weren't designed to be re-lined. 
They weren't created with a removeable "sleeve" that was intended to be removed and replaced.  
Drilling-out the interior of a rifled barrel of a person-sized rifle is not the same as heating the battleship barrel and removing (by sliding) the Original Equipment Manufacture barrel-liner and replacing it with a new barrel-liner.

Oh my goodness....  I deleted what I was going to reply with.  You are not interested it seems........ 

[Wolfswetpaws]

29 minutes ago, Asym said:

Oh my goodness....  I deleted what I was going to reply with.  You are not interested it seems........ 

I think you should have watched the entire Drachifel video before trying to impress me.  🙂 

[Asym]

4 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I think you should have watched the entire Drachifel video before trying to impress me.  🙂 

Well now, so much for a good conversation?  Impress you?  Inform you perhaps.... Again, we are all made up of parts, experiences and no two of us are the same.  What I experience and what you experience is what makes for a good conversation.  Not a contest of whom knows more or whom is more right.  Cause, in my experience, no one wins a pissing contest....

Lets' leave it there my friend..... 

 

[Snargfargle]

8 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

And, the "feature" of being able to replace the interior rifling lining of a barrel is an additional feature not found in person-sized rifles/shotguns.

Most of what a battleship can do is now done by other equipment & personnel, nowadays.

You can buy rifled barrel sleeves. My great uncle used to re-line old shot-out .32-20s, 25-20s, and other obsolete caliber rifles and pistols to .22 LR using rifled sleeves and then convert the actions to rim-fire so they could be fired and the casings ejected. If you are just re-lining a shot-out .22, the process is relatively easy as you can just buy a chambered sleeve, drill out the old rifling, and then epoxy it in.

The 8-inch howitzers that my unit fielded have almost entirely been replaced by rocket systems, which can fire faster and farther with more payload. I see a paradigm shift soon coming too where naval warfare is concerned. Instead of manned ships, there are going to be AI-commanded drone carriers sent into hostile areas.

Edited May 21 by Snargfargle

[Wolfswetpaws]

6 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

there are going to be AI-commanded drone carriers sent into hostile areas.

First Person View drones are eclipsing artillery usage in <redacted>

https://youtu.be/IF3xiCSeqno?si=LAyFp7irdbvYjjsB
 

 

Edited May 21 by Wolfswetpaws

[Snargfargle]

19 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

drones

There's a guy on YouTube who works for a company that manufactures drones designed to deliver whole blood to medics in the field. As a former medic myself, I found this really interesting. When they first came out with those robot "dogs" I thought to myself that they would be a good companions for a field medic too. My medical gear weighed much more than I could carry so I always had to leave most of it in a vehicle and then send someone back to retrieve it if I needed something that I didn't have on me. Those robot dogs could be programmed or operated as drones to drag patients to safety as well.

Edited May 21 by Snargfargle

[Wolfswetpaws]

7 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

There's a guy on YouTube who works for a company that manufactures drones designed to deliver whole blood to medics in the field. As a former medic myself, I found this really interesting. When they first came out with those robot "dogs" I thought to myself that they would be a good companions for a field medic too. My medical gear weighed much more than I could carry so I always had to leave most of it in a vehicle and then send someone back to retrieve it if I needed something that I didn't have on me. Those robot dogs could be programmed or operated as drones to drag patients to safety as well.

While the Boston Robotics products are impressive, their limitations are the battery life.
Extended forays into the field for weeks at a time might be more than they can handle, even with solar-rechargers, in my opinion.

Aerial drones offer speed and possibly more range, with less cargo capacity (unless the drones are "huge"?).

But, for a number of applications, including trauma response in difficult-to-access-by-ambulance locations, I like the way you're thinking.

[Asym]

3 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

You can buy rifled barrel sleeves. My great uncle used to re-line old shot-out .32-20s, 25-20s, and other obsolete caliber rifles and pistols to .22 LR using rifles sleeves and then convert the actions to rim-fire so they could be fired and the casings ejected. If you are just re-lining a shot-out .22, the process is relatively easy as you can just buy a chambered sleeve, drill out the old rifling, and then epoxy it in.

The 8-inch howitzers that my unit fielded have almost entirely been replaced by rocket systems, which can fire faster and farther with more payload. I see a paradigm shift soon coming too where naval warfare is concerned. Instead of manned ships, there are going to be AI-commanded drone carriers sent into hostile areas.

Yep, you can out of Brownell's at one point....  I have not tchecked in decades.  I have someone whom professionally does that kind of work.  And, I have all of the cowboy calibers (or, had since I have sold a couple....)

My favorite is the 25-35 Winchester and the 25-36 Marlin......now, there was an arms race over just about nothing!

That's the process.  The choices now exceed what they had 20 years ago...  Some of the competitive crew wanted non-SAMI twist rates and, if there is a demand, there are people to do that work.  Again, my 38-55 isn't a SAMI twist rate.  It's a little slower because I am shooting a heavier GC lead bullet...

Yes, the "King of Battle's" main weapons are getting more and more sophisticated....  Rockets as well...  Pretty soon our smart weapons will be without human control on Land, Sea and especially Air combat systems...

Edited May 21 by Asym