Ducky_shot Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 (edited) I know a couple people grabbed a few of my things and posted them here, so I will try to search before reposting any of my old guides. I'm Ducky_shot, a semi-decent DD player who gets decent enough results to post tips and tricks every once in a while. We will start off with this one. It's 5 years old and I will revamp it where needed. 1. So the first thing you have to worry about when you are playing destroyers at radar tiers is whether there is actually any radar ships opposing you. All the radar information can be found here: https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Surveillance_Radar_Data You need to look at the enemy ship list and see if there are any radar ships. There are some wildcards out there, such as British cruisers and PA destroyers that could be running smoke or radar. Most are going to run smoke seems to be about 50/50 now, but as soon as you assume that, you get wrecked by doing something stupid when they are running radar. I run a mod that puts bright green writing on the team list of all the ship's hydro and radar ranges so its hard to miss. 2. There are some maps where radar is less useful than others. On maps with large open caps like Crash Zone Alpha and Atlantic, you can cap several caps usually out of the range of radar. On maps like Sea of Fortune or Greece, where there are smaller, more congested caps, radar ships have lots of places to camp close to the caps and can sneak into those spots without being spotted. 3. It is usually advised to not contest a cap until the radar ships have been spotted so that you know where they are. This won't happen early in every game, but you usually get a good idea where everything is most games. If a radar ship is going to the cap you are going to, then you need to ask yourself whether you can actually cap it with them there or not. If there are limited radar ships in the game and they aren't going to your cap, then you have an easier job capping it. 4. As most radar cruisers do not like to waste their radar, they generally will not radar until you are in the cap. Therefore, you should back into the cap so that you are pointing away from them and have a a quicker exit and easier dodging from incoming shells. If you can back in from near an island at the edge of the cap, you can duck back under the island fairly quickly and have cover from enemy fire. 5. You can try to dive into an island in the cap for cover against radar, but you are then denying your team any spotting and you might get caught and stuck there by multiple radar ships or hydro with you unable to see where the enemy ships are or if you are able to exit. I am very cautious about this as a hydro DD (or cruiser, etc) can pin you down where you can't move out without taking fire, but having to stay tucked in means you might not be able to see things that are moving up in a position to run you down or set up and farm you from a distance for free. 6. There are many spots where enemy radar ships can sit, but there are some that are better than others. Learn where these are and stay at range from them if there are unspotted enemy radar ships. 7. You can bait an enemy radar by just driving through the edge of a cap at full speed and then turning out as soon as you are radared or by backing into the cap. Then you just get out of the range of the radar and wait until you know its down and then go back and cap while their radar is on cooldown. (refer to the wiki page) Beware of multiple radar ships being in range of the cap. Also, if you can spot the enemy cruiser while its radar is on cooldown, your team can hopefully kill him or he might run away to try to break detection. 8. Don't get caught by your gun bloom. Just because you are radared, doesn't mean that you should just start blazing away with your guns. If you are near the edge of the radar range, you might light yourself for another 20 seconds when you could have just gone dark. Enemy DD's that start shooting at you will be lit for a minimum of 20 seconds and sometimes your team can capitalize and hurt them more than the radar hurt you if they do not have or neglect to trigger their smoke. 9. Watch the radar cruisers on your team. If they are in range of the cap and the cap is contested by an enemy DD, they likely will radar it. You can usually use your smoke and shoot at the enemy DD with impunity. 10. Send torps at the typical radar cruiser camping spots or where they have been spotted. A lucky hit or 2 on enemy radar cruisers is huge. you might also slow them down getting into position or force them to flee beyond radar range. Consider if you are able to flank a bit and get the radar cruiser perma spotted for your team to either kill or encourage to leave. 11. Do not smoke up when you are radared. Believe it or not, it doesn't hide you and the only thing you are accomplishing is hiding the enemy team so that your team cannot see them while they continue to plink away at you while you are detected by radar. 12. Going further into the cap increases your chance of getting killed. You have further to run away, the ranges are shorter for the enemy team while they are further away from your supporting team mates. 13. I like to sometimes play my DD's about 0.2 km into radar range of enemy radar ships or their favorite camping spots. It's a bit of a tradeoff as they will then know where you are, but I prefer to have the knowledge that they have used their radar and then exit their radar radius. I also will bait the radar. If I'm close to the edge of their radar range, I will sometimes smoke up and start firing away at them, they know that the range is close, so they will sometimes waste their radar when you are just beyond their range. They might also creep a little out of their hiding spot to try and radar you, if they do, you should be able to stay ahead of their radar radius. If you aren't in the range of their radar, check and see if friendly ships around you that weren't spotted are suddenly spotted, that will indicate that the radar is active. There are mods that will give you that info. Edited May 10 by Ducky_shot 7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_cant_Swim_ Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 Welcome to the forum, @Ducky_shot! Very good post! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Karasu Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 Welcome aboard! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HogHammer Posted May 10 Share Posted May 10 Also, some great suggestions by @Ducky_shot on "How to Play a Flank/Kite" can be found at this link: 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asym Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 On 5/10/2024 at 1:16 AM, Ducky_shot said: I know a couple people grabbed a few of my things and posted them here, so I will try to search before reposting any of my old guides. I'm Ducky_shot, a semi-decent DD player who gets decent enough results to post tips and tricks every once in a while. We will start off with this one. It's 5 years old and I will revamp it where needed. 1. So the first thing you have to worry about when you are playing destroyers at radar tiers is whether there is actually any radar ships opposing you. All the radar information can be found here: https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Surveillance_Radar_Data You need to look at the enemy ship list and see if there are any radar ships. There are some wildcards out there, such as British cruisers and PA destroyers that could be running smoke or radar. Most are going to run smoke seems to be about 50/50 now, but as soon as you assume that, you get wrecked by doing something stupid when they are running radar. I run a mod that puts bright green writing on the team list of all the ship's hydro and radar ranges so its hard to miss. 2. There are some maps where radar is less useful than others. On maps with large open caps like Crash Zone Alpha and Atlantic, you can cap several caps usually out of the range of radar. On maps like Sea of Fortune or Greece, where there are smaller, more congested caps, radar ships have lots of places to camp close to the caps and can sneak into those spots without being spotted. 3. It is usually advised to not contest a cap until the radar ships have been spotted so that you know where they are. This won't happen early in every game, but you usually get a good idea where everything is most games. If a radar ship is going to the cap you are going to, then you need to ask yourself whether you can actually cap it with them there or not. If there are limited radar ships in the game and they aren't going to your cap, then you have an easier job capping it. 4. As most radar cruisers do not like to waste their radar, they generally will not radar until you are in the cap. Therefore, you should back into the cap so that you are pointing away from them and have a a quicker exit and easier dodging from incoming shells. If you can back in from near an island at the edge of the cap, you can duck back under the island fairly quickly and have cover from enemy fire. 5. You can try to dive into an island in the cap for cover against radar, but you are then denying your team any spotting and you might get caught and stuck there by multiple radar ships or hydro with you unable to see where the enemy ships are or if you are able to exit. I am very cautious about this as a hydro DD (or cruiser, etc) can pin you down where you can't move out without taking fire, but having to stay tucked in means you might not be able to see things that are moving up in a position to run you down or set up and farm you from a distance for free. 6. There are many spots where enemy radar ships can sit, but there are some that are better than others. Learn where these are and stay at range from them if there are unspotted enemy radar ships. 7. You can bait an enemy radar by just driving through the edge of a cap at full speed and then turning out as soon as you are radared or by backing into the cap. Then you just get out of the range of the radar and wait until you know its down and then go back and cap while their radar is on cooldown. (refer to the wiki page) Beware of multiple radar ships being in range of the cap. Also, if you can spot the enemy cruiser while its radar is on cooldown, your team can hopefully kill him or he might run away to try to break detection. 8. Don't get caught by your gun bloom. Just because you are radared, doesn't mean that you should just start blazing away with your guns. If you are near the edge of the radar range, you might light yourself for another 20 seconds when you could have just gone dark. Enemy DD's that start shooting at you will be lit for a minimum of 20 seconds and sometimes your team can capitalize and hurt them more than the radar hurt you if they do not have or neglect to trigger their smoke. 9. Watch the radar cruisers on your team. If they are in range of the cap and the cap is contested by an enemy DD, they likely will radar it. You can usually use your smoke and shoot at the enemy DD with impunity. 10. Send torps at the typical radar cruiser camping spots or where they have been spotted. A lucky hit or 2 on enemy radar cruisers is huge. you might also slow them down getting into position or force them to flee beyond radar range. Consider if you are able to flank a bit and get the radar cruiser perma spotted for your team to either kill or encourage to leave. 11. Do not smoke up when you are radared. Believe it or not, it doesn't hide you and the only thing you are accomplishing is hiding the enemy team so that your team cannot see them while they continue to plink away at you while you are detected by radar. 12. Going further into the cap increases your chance of getting killed. You have further to run away, the ranges are shorter for the enemy team while they are further away from your supporting team mates. 13. I like to sometimes play my DD's about 0.2 km into radar range of enemy radar ships or their favorite camping spots. It's a bit of a tradeoff as they will then know where you are, but I prefer to have the knowledge that they have used their radar and then exit their radar radius. I also will bait the radar. If I'm close to the edge of their radar range, I will sometimes smoke up and start firing away at them, they know that the range is close, so they will sometimes waste their radar when you are just beyond their range. They might also creep a little out of their hiding spot to try and radar you, if they do, you should be able to stay ahead of their radar radius. If you aren't in the range of their radar, check and see if friendly ships around you that weren't spotted are suddenly spotted, that will indicate that the radar is active. There are mods that will give you that info. Well said and if I were just joining this game, if I were a clan leader with new players, it would be a "must read..." But...... I am sitting here thinking about this - because, I still consider myself a DD main, that was driven out of Randoms at the Cruiser Line Split.... Yes, all of the above is great advice.......but, DD's simply are now completely "reactive" to any form of Radar. And, that is where the tactical inconsistency loses players... Yes, Radar counter stealth smoke. Now, smoke means nothing and, that is really a problem.... They eliminated an entire class of ships to speed games up.... Radar needs a counter: If we had jammers or chaff or SLARM's..... Or, the real world, WW2 reality: one ship gets a minute before they can see that ship: because, the Radar tech had to contact the gunnery rep, whom had to contact the FDC teams to move the guns.....all done on a telephone ! And, another 2 minutes for other ships without Radar to see the enemy ships "general location" - not precise firing solutions (think of the geometry involved in four dimensional math solutions !). That is what actually happened and this comes from my FIL whom served on the Wisconsin in WW2 in the Forward FDC..... And yes, that will never happen and that, in and of itself, keeps me and a great many others out of Random matches. Radar has to evolve and simply hasn't. Why? If I were to guess, Game speed. Slow game play lessens revenue opportunities (the throughput maxim). Well written; but, it's not enough to overcome the effort to reward gap. Add in the toxicity, and that precludes most things PVP.... So, till there is a Radar counter, a great many of us simply don't see a reason to have to "go to extreme measures for so little value" so that other players reap rewards.... Selfish, yes.........but, this is a cooperative first person shooter..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ducky_shot Posted May 11 Author Share Posted May 11 57 minutes ago, Asym said: Well said and if I were just joining this game, if I were a clan leader with new players, it would be a "must read..." But...... I am sitting here thinking about this - because, I still consider myself a DD main, that was driven out of Randoms at the Cruiser Line Split.... Yes, all of the above is great advice.......but, DD's simply are now completely "reactive" to any form of Radar. And, that is where the tactical inconsistency loses players... Yes, Radar counter stealth smoke. Now, smoke means nothing and, that is really a problem.... They eliminated an entire class of ships to speed games up.... Radar needs a counter: If we had jammers or chaff or SLARM's..... Or, the real world, WW2 reality: one ship gets a minute before they can see that ship: because, the Radar tech had to contact the gunnery rep, whom had to contact the FDC teams to move the guns.....all done on a telephone ! And, another 2 minutes for other ships without Radar to see the enemy ships "general location" - not precise firing solutions (think of the geometry involved in four dimensional math solutions !). That is what actually happened and this comes from my FIL whom served on the Wisconsin in WW2 in the Forward FDC..... And yes, that will never happen and that, in and of itself, keeps me and a great many others out of Random matches. Radar has to evolve and simply hasn't. Why? If I were to guess, Game speed. Slow game play lessens revenue opportunities (the throughput maxim). Well written; but, it's not enough to overcome the effort to reward gap. Add in the toxicity, and that precludes most things PVP.... So, till there is a Radar counter, a great many of us simply don't see a reason to have to "go to extreme measures for so little value" so that other players reap rewards.... Selfish, yes.........but, this is a cooperative first person shooter..... Radar keeps good players in check, imo. And that's why I'm ok with it. It keeps me cautious. Bad DD players are going to die whether or not there is radar. They'll play stupidly and die 1 minute later than they would have against radar because it takes them that much longer to get spotted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asym Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 3 hours ago, Ducky_shot said: Radar keeps good players in check, imo. And that's why I'm ok with it. It keeps me cautious. Bad DD players are going to die whether or not there is radar. They'll play stupidly and die 1 minute later than they would have against radar because it takes them that much longer to get spotted. And, that makes for a much smaller game population. A majority of players aren't here to "work at a game"........they are here to "play a game" - which, generates even more revenue; which, allows our host to create more new content; which, make established players spend more money; that, in totality, "grows a population" that will stay....... You aren't wrong and I am not criticizing you.... It's just that I "see games differently" than most people.... Cause of what I am involved in "outside of the game...." and from coming from an Innovation community in my third career (as my wife crosses her arms and glares at me.... My weak reply is that I see it as "being active".... Her reply to that: yeah, right...mumbling something in Italian.... ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted May 11 Share Posted May 11 Radar consumable has a limited time duration. And, as a consumable, a limited quantity available per battle. So, getting ships/players to waste their radar for little to no benefit seems worthwhile, from the perspective of those opposing the radar equipped ships. How to go about doing so? Well, I'm curious to hear people's answers to that question. As for @Asym's idea of "chaff"? The limited duration and quantity seems to have been the "balanz" factor, as I reckon it. Normal real-life radar operates continuously, unless turned-off to reduce electronic emissions in an attempt to be stealthy. That said, I'd like to hear people's perspectives and thought processs about this for the sake of further discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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