Why Is British AP Crap ?

[tm63au]

I'm certain someone will provide evidence to the contrary but it seems to me that every British Cruiser that has AP only does sweet FA in damage against even enemy Cruisers in Battle.

I believe I posted the the view on the now defunct Official website and I still hold to my view back than and now its crap WG has some weird warped sense of humour about British Cruisers I cant for the life of me understand, from Leander up apart from The Premiums shells seems to just bounce or break, I barely play these ships apart from Leander itself and Fiji, the rest just rust away tied to there moorings.

I have the original Belfast which I could never master in Random, I its suppose to be the most OP ship on the Planet but I cant make it to work, the British Cruiser fleet gathers moss and barnacles.

 

WG at there Round table meeting in the early hours of the morning after a all night bender on Vodka " I know lets make British Cruisers absolutely useless we will just give them AP " said one DEV, 

" Brilliant idea " said another 

And thus history was made

 

 

 

        

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

That AP is great against light ships.

Use the right ammunition for the right job.

[UnderTheRadarAgain]

Well. That AP has improved penetration angles. So it does not bounce at the same angles that other nations cruiser Ap does. But improved pen angles does not mean ignore angles penetration. When faced by a UK CL, and aware of the shell characteristics, angle more sharply against them. What that means for you is aim at the turrets or superstructure.

[UnderTheRadarAgain]

1 minute ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

That AP is great against light ships.

Use the right ammunition for the right job.

Err? what? UK light cruisers ONLY have AP. What other ammo must they use?

[xxNihilanxx]

6 minutes ago, tm63au said:

I'm certain someone will provide evidence to the contrary but it seems to me that every British Cruiser that has AP only does sweet FA in damage against even enemy Cruisers in Battle.

I believe I posted the the view on the now defunct Official website and I still hold to my view back than and now its crap WG has some weird warped sense of humour about British Cruisers I cant for the life of me understand, from Leander up apart from The Premiums shells seems to just bounce or break, I barely play these ships apart from Leander itself and Fiji, the rest just rust away tied to there moorings.

I have the original Belfast which I could never master in Random, I its suppose to be the most OP ship on the Planet but I cant make it to work, the British Cruiser fleet gathers moss and barnacles.

 

WG at there Round table meeting in the early hours of the morning after a all night bender on Vodka " I know lets make British Cruisers absolutely useless we will just give them AP " said one DEV, 

" Brilliant idea " said another 

And thus history was made

 

 

 

        

The British Cruisers in that line are really good (the Fiji, for example is a definite keeper). Try aiming a little higher on the enemy superstructure than you would normally do and see if that does the trick. At closer ranges they can be a source of numerous citadels against broadside cruiser - just make sure you are always aware of your smoke firing penalty, but at higher ranges you definitely want to be aiming higher on the superstructure. Played correctly they are great damage dealers.

Also it is a good idea to keep a vigilant eye on your smoke timer in combination with checking your range to nearby enemies, you don't want your smoke to expire whilst you are in detection range so sometimes it pays to leave early to avoid this.

[YouSatInGum]

Just now, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

That AP is great against light ships.

Use the right ammunition for the right job.

It's decent against most ships but best against lighter stuff. 

Those said, any AP only ship needs better positioning and aim compared to HE ammo.

For example, if you think RM AP is frustrating just wait for Pan Am AP.

I mained st. Martin last CB season and often the best move with it was to go dark and take an unexpected flank or vector against your target.  Creating some angles should always be on your mind.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

20 minutes ago, UnderTheRadarAgain said:

Err? what? UK light cruisers ONLY have AP. What other ammo must they use?

Ask WG.

They love to create ships that can only do something's well but are useless the rest of the time.

The concept of gameplay balance is completely lost on them.

[Verytis]

Mino main here.

You aim for the upperbelt when they're exposed, and the superstructure when they're angled.

Your dmg output is usually less than that of other CLs because people usually just angle. You're burst-based rather than sustain-based.

 

Edinburgh is also unique in that it has a superheal at T8 while others don't get any heals at all. Combined with better armour, this makes Edinburgh, tier for tier, the most tanky ship of it's line. The cost is your dmg output being unchanged from Fiji.

The dmg output gets significantly better at Neptune.

[Tricericon]

The likely historical justification is that the British, doctrinally, were not really interested in developing a deep-penetrating AP shell until after Jutland rubbed the error of that approach in their faces (Jellicoe's memo to the contrary was a CYA exercise, he could have easily pressed the point and did not). It's a thin excuse in a mostly WW2 focused game, since that no longer applies after the 1917 "Greenboy", but I see the thought process.

[Project45_Opytny]

3 minutes ago, Verytis said:

You aim for the upperbelt when they're exposed, and the superstructure when they're angled.

Your dmg output is usually less than that of other CLs because people usually just angle. You're burst-based rather than sustain-based.

British light cruiser (except Belfast, Belfast 43 and Dido) AP shells are in fact the second to best group (Tiers 2~5 65/80, Tiers 6~11 60/75) in the entire game in terms of improved ricochet angles.

The best is Tachibana/Tachibana L whose AP, despite all other horrible parameters, will never bounce.

33 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Ask WG.

They love to create ships that can only do something's well but are useless the rest of the time.

The concept of gameplay balance is completely lost on them.

As far as I'm concerned, "British AP" was in fact one of the prime examples of early WoWS balance approach and judging from how British cruisers performed, it is just fine.

British light cruisers had a very convoluted development process, and British AP was adopted intentionally to make them, with smokescreen consumables, 

Quote

can only do something's well but are useless the rest of the time

 for the very sake of balance that there can be some sort of "counterplay" (angling).

[Nevermore135]

59 minutes ago, Tricericon said:

The likely historical justification is that the British,

The UK CLs having only AP was a gameplay consideration. After Belfast the devs were incredibly wary of the HE + smoke combo on 6”-armed CLs.

Edited May 8 by Nevermore135

[Itwastuesday]

It's some of the best ap, practically superior sap, but ultimately all ap can and will ricochet. Your aim, target selection and position has to be just that much better than the cruisers who just spam premium rounds and kite. I don't blame you, british cl not the easiest line. 

I especially like Hampshire for the increased penetration and I'm thinking of getting Gibraltar. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, tm63au said:

I'm certain someone will provide evidence to the contrary but it seems to me that every British Cruiser that has AP only does sweet FA in damage against even enemy Cruisers in Battle.

I believe I posted the the view on the now defunct Official website and I still hold to my view back than and now its crap WG has some weird warped sense of humour about British Cruisers I cant for the life of me understand, from Leander up apart from The Premiums shells seems to just bounce or break, I barely play these ships apart from Leander itself and Fiji, the rest just rust away tied to there moorings.

I have the original Belfast which I could never master in Random, I its suppose to be the most OP ship on the Planet but I cant make it to work, the British Cruiser fleet gathers moss and barnacles.

 

WG at there Round table meeting in the early hours of the morning after a all night bender on Vodka " I know lets make British Cruisers absolutely useless we will just give them AP " said one DEV, 

" Brilliant idea " said another 

And thus history was made

 

 

However effective it might be when fired from your ships, it's always been really annoying to be on the receiving side of the equation in my ships.  🙂 

[Frostbow]

I take my Mino to Co-op everytime there is a cruiser mission that require main battery hits. Then I strike the main armor belts of BBs and I get a ton of non-penetrations and ricochets without killing the bot prematurely. In that sense British AP is amazing. 😂

[Verytis]

43 minutes ago, Itwastuesday said:

It's some of the best ap, practically superior sap, but ultimately all ap can and will ricochet. Your aim, target selection and position has to be just that much better than the cruisers who just spam premium rounds and kite. I don't blame you, british cl not the easiest line. 

I especially like Hampshire for the increased penetration and I'm thinking of getting Gibraltar. 

RN CL AP is still solid but the age really shows.

With new ships having thicker armour, the improved ricochet angle is partially negated at longer ranges due to low penetration.

Meanwhile calibre-creep just lets newer AP shells ignore angles via overmatch.

 

Like 234+ mm which lets you always shoot AP at shorter ranges because it overmatches cruiser superstructure. Bonus if your opponent's guns break.

Gibraltar actually has said 234mm calibre, although hampered by questionable concealment and Moskva DPM but without HE or armour to compensate.

[Kynami]

While indeed a certain amount of the player base considers AP locked cruisers to be considerably less than optimal and they aren't quite as reliable as HE slinging cruisers... There absolutely are games where you get to do things other cruisers couldn't at that tier and absolutely lay waste to considerably larger vessels given smoke and a bit of time to work them over. There have been occasions where I've done things like slap out a Marco Polo for over 50k damage from smoke and then 100-0 an over-eager Salmon that tried sneaking up behind me with my Fiji.

I've also had a game where while sitting in the captain's chair of another AP locked cruiser the Dmitry Pozharsky I annoyed a Hornet enough that they decided to give me their very best the B-25 flight TWICE near the end of the game. And before I went down in one salvo I did 15k damage back to their carrier upon a two second long spotting. And I'd held a very annoying stretch of islands that had let me sink two battleships and a destroyer earlier.

Yes, you have a harder time getting damage against bow in targets. Yes the short-fuse nature of the British AP in particular means that aiming too low against angled ships is even worse damage. But you also absolutely destroy enemy destroyers you catch with that stuff. I brought up the Dmitry Pozharsky earlier because since that isn't short fuse its over-pen city when trying to smack most destroyers with that thing unless you catch them lengthwise.

[Jakob Knight]

These are my own recollections and opinions, so take them as that.

 

When the UK Cruiser line was put in, they were envisioned as the 'skill' ship line, intended for experienced players who could already use other ship lines in the game perfectly well and were looking for a more challenging line of ships.  The decision to go with an AP-only gun scheme reflected that outlook, though I think it became clear after release that players were actually more interested in having historical UK ships to sail in the game than some kind of elite units.

 

The dependence on only AP also meant their characteristics had to be unique to be effective at a Cruiser's primary intended target...Destroyers.  Normal AP would more often than not overpen, making the UK ships less than marginal engaging them, so the change in UK AP was done to give the line the effectiveness it needed to be able to do the job of other Cruiser lines without relying on HE.

 

As others have said, the creep in armor protection has not done any favors to the UK line, and the heritage of their original concept still hampers any idea of changing it across the board.  Ultimately, they are what they are, and the strengths come with the weaknesses.

 

 

[Unlooky]

On 5/8/2024 at 7:43 AM, tm63au said:

I'm certain someone will provide evidence to the contrary but it seems to me that every British Cruiser that has AP only does sweet FA in damage against even enemy Cruisers in Battle.

I believe I posted the the view on the now defunct Official website and I still hold to my view back than and now its crap WG has some weird warped sense of humour about British Cruisers I cant for the life of me understand, from Leander up apart from The Premiums shells seems to just bounce or break, I barely play these ships apart from Leander itself and Fiji, the rest just rust away tied to there moorings.

I have the original Belfast which I could never master in Random, I its suppose to be the most OP ship on the Planet but I cant make it to work, the British Cruiser fleet gathers moss and barnacles.

 

WG at there Round table meeting in the early hours of the morning after a all night bender on Vodka " I know lets make British Cruisers absolutely useless we will just give them AP " said one DEV, 

" Brilliant idea " said another 

And thus history was made

 

 

 

        

Considering you can do 3-4k a salvo against BBs semi consistently, I'd hardly call British AP weak. The shells have ridiculous characteristics and almost never overpen. The only targets I struggle against are ships with small/hard to hit superstructures (Izumo, Napoli.) I did write a guide on Minotaur that should be on my profile if you're interested in taking a look. 

Edited May 9 by Unlooky

[Andrewbassg]

12 hours ago, tm63au said:

Why Is British AP Crap ?

Well....it isn't. Or used to be. Nowadays with the different artillery "bugs" (I'm not convinced that Wedgie didn't do "something" to AP disp, generally) is a different matter.

Generally, RN Cl' s aren't about doing DMG, but rather staying alive and doing dmg, in that order. Teaches the "Bee Gees" game like no other line . 🙂 Once mastered that game ... then its about doing stuff, even exceptional ones.