The DD ABC's

[WES_HoundDog]

ok, so Wargamming made dd's immune to large caliber AP pens.     What are the rules for this?

1.  What size shell and larger becomes unable to pen dd's?

2. Is it just BB's are large caliber cruisers as well?

3. What DD's still take full pen damage from any caliber AP round?

[Viridem]

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Armor_Penetration#AP_Shell_Damage
"Damage to a destroyer caused by an AP or SAP shell with a caliber of 280 mm or larger cannot exceed 10% of the shell's maximum damage."

https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/game-updates/update-0911-winter-trophies/#other-changes

"Soviet Tier X destroyer Khabarovsk, and Japanese Tier X destroyer Harugumo

Loss of HP after being hit by an AP or SAP shell with a caliber of 280 mm and above will now not exceed 10% of the maximum damage that such a shell can cause."

"3. What DD's still take full pen damage from any caliber AP round? " ->None.

Edited May 4, 2024 by Viridem

[YouSatInGum]

Don't remember the exact number but basically 283 and larger.... but what you really mean isn't that AP is unable to pen.... it's that the larger shells are subject to the 1/10 damage rule.  1/10 damage for all pens  (as long as it doesn't rico which isn't common but possible).

The thing about larger shells is that they rarely pen or rather they overpen small ships like DDs... unless it has a modified short fuse time.e

Medium caliber short fuse shells like Gibraltar can nearly one tap a DD.... or Petro which sometime get pens from it's medium fuse times.

 

 

[Wolfswetpaws]

52 minutes ago, WES_HoundDog said:

ok, so Wargamming made dd's immune to large caliber AP pens.     What are the rules for this?

1.  What size shell and larger becomes unable to pen dd's?

2. Is it just BB's are large caliber cruisers as well?

3. What DD's still take full pen damage from any caliber AP round?

Why aren't you using H.E. projectiles?

[Viridem]

Oh, if I remember correctly, overpens aren't subject to damage saturation. They will always deal the same amount of damage, no matter what.

I'm not entirely sure if this is true, but because of that, there may be instances where an overpen might deal more damage than a full pen.

And so for DDs, it means you might end up doing more damage with an overpen than  with a full pen or even HE shell.

In practice, you should almost always prefer shooting HE at DDs anyway, with some exceptions (better AP balistics, no time to switch to HE, great AP and bad HE like on Hannover etc).

[WES_HoundDog]

48 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Why aren't you using H.E. projectiles?

There are certain situations where ap just deletes. And if you find the right combo of ship stats (like the gilbraltar) and enemy.  Ap can be used more often.

[Wolfswetpaws]

10 hours ago, WES_HoundDog said:

There are certain situations where ap just deletes. And if you find the right combo of ship stats (like the gilbraltar) and enemy.  Ap can be used more often.

Typically, the first ships spotted are DD's.  They're fast and seek contact in order to spot opponents and set-up torpedo ambushes.
Which is why I load HE, especially early in the battle, unless I know I'll be having an opportunity to hit the broadside of something that AP can be effective upon.
But, that's just me, eh?

Edit:  https://www.devstrike.net/topic/3755-the-dd-abcs/?do=findComment&comment=50509

 

Edited May 4, 2024 by Wolfswetpaws

[Unlooky]

6 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Why aren't you using H.E. projectiles?

Loading HE specifically for destroyers (in a battleship) actually very rarely makes sense outside of endgame scenarios. Doing an extra 500 or so damage per shell doesn't pay off in comparison to broadsides you can miss out on. You can't guarantee destroyers will stay spotted long enough for you to shoot them AND switch to HE (roughly 40-35 seconds total), in fact, that's a very rare occurrence. I'd much rather lose out on maybe 1-2k extra damage on a destroyer (still doing like 4-6k on a decent hit), than miss deleting a broadside cruiser because I had the wrong shell loaded. 

 

7 hours ago, WES_HoundDog said:

ok, so Wargamming made dd's immune to large caliber AP pens.     What are the rules for this?

General rule of thumb: If it burns for 60 seconds, it cannot do full AP damage to destroyers. Only exceptions I can think of right now are Haarlem and Illinois.

Edited May 4, 2024 by Unlooky

[Itwastuesday]

6 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Typically, the first ships spotted are DD's.  

Huh? The first ships spotted are always battleships and cruisers. Sometimes even the carrier is spotted before a single destroyer. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

2 hours ago, Itwastuesday said:

8 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Typically, the first ships spotted are DD's.  

Huh? The first ships spotted are always battleships and cruisers. Sometimes even the carrier is spotted before a single destroyer. 

Okay.  You're right.
The DD's might be closer but they're not getting detected sooner than the BB's and then the Cruisers.
I should have used words that better conveyed what I was thinking.  
Thank you.

 

3 hours ago, Unlooky said:

10 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Why aren't you using H.E. projectiles?

Loading HE specifically for destroyers (in a battleship) actually very rarely makes sense outside of endgame scenarios. Doing an extra 500 or so damage per shell doesn't pay off in comparison to broadsides you can miss out on. You can't guarantee destroyers will stay spotted long enough for you to shoot them AND switch to HE (roughly 40-35 seconds total), in fact, that's a very rare occurrence. I'd much rather lose out on maybe 1-2k extra damage on a destroyer (still doing like 4-6k on a decent hit), than miss deleting a broadside cruiser because I had the wrong shell loaded. 

What about "splash" damage, that can incapacitate or even destroy ship equipment?
Also, the chance to start fires?
As for guarantees, there are none for any ship.  So the juicy cruiser or battleship broadside you're hoping for could be a similarly fleeting opportunity.

That said, you've put some thought into your choices, and you get to run your ship your way.

[YouSatInGum]

Hay Ducky!

Excellent guide.

 

I know some might say "but skill XXX is so good with ship YYY."  ...and that might be true but a mix mas guide would be more like a ship review encyclopedia, so I fully endorse your advice as a general guide for players of all skill level.

 

The only disagreement I have is about IFA vs. PT.  Back when PT was 1 point that was my preference, however as my SA has improved over time I've become less interested in knowing how many ships are looking at me (as a DD or CL I just assume all who can shoot at me will try to) than getting an extra second or two of warning that shots are in the air.  This is especially true when playing ships like Ragnar or Trashcan (tashkent) where I want BB's to try to shoot me, and the IFA warning comes a second or two sooner than the shell render time.  As the client has become more bloated, the render lag can be a big difference in evasive time.  The fact that PT is now 2 points when last stand is the 1st 2point skill you must take means that often a 3 or 4 point skill may have to be sacrificed to take it.

BTW - in comp, I always take IFA since I often play off flank cruisers.  It's not uncommon to be saved from a cross-fire Ohio,etc. salvo I wouldn't have seen since my field of view is concentrated 90°-180° from said cross-shot.  PT may tell me that that BB is looking at me but it's still hard for me to keep an eye on him AND cruiser or DD in front of me too. 

[YouSatInGum]

On 5/3/2024 at 8:56 PM, WES_HoundDog said:

There are certain situations where ap just deletes. And if you find the right combo of ship stats (like the gilbraltar) and enemy.  Ap can be used more often.

Indeed.  It's really just certain ships that have AP that is tweaked to work well on DD's and CLs.  Like the mentioned Gibby which can actually one-show some of the lower HP T10 DDs, but any other cruiser or DDs with special AP characteristics.  That can even include Petro... I often have AP loaded looking for Cits but if a DD shows a 45° angle that will allow it's .022 fuse to arm and dole out around 2500dmg per shell (for legendary Petro).   There are quite a few others that are itching for the situation to make their AP work like Z42, Daring and siblings, Harugumo/kita, but also some unexpected ships like Cleveland with it's .01 fuse.                                                                                                                        

[Ducky_shot]

33 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

Hay Ducky!

Excellent guide.

 

I know some might say "but skill XXX is so good with ship YYY."  ...and that might be true but a mix mas guide would be more like a ship review encyclopedia, so I fully endorse your advice as a general guide for players of all skill level.

 

The only disagreement I have is about IFA vs. PT.  Back when PT was 1 point that was my preference, however as my SA has improved over time I've become less interested in knowing how many ships are looking at me (as a DD or CL I just assume all who can shoot at me will try to) than getting an extra second or two of warning that shots are in the air.  This is especially true when playing ships like Ragnar or Trashcan (tashkent) where I want BB's to try to shoot me, and the IFA warning comes a second or two sooner than the shell render time.  As the client has become more bloated, the render lag can be a big difference in evasive time.  The fact that PT is now 2 points when last stand is the 1st 2point skill you must take means that often a 3 or 4 point skill may have to be sacrificed to take it.

BTW - in comp, I always take IFA since I often play off flank cruisers.  It's not uncommon to be saved from a cross-fire Ohio,etc. salvo I wouldn't have seen since my field of view is concentrated 90°-180° from said cross-shot.  PT may tell me that that BB is looking at me but it's still hard for me to keep an eye on him AND cruiser or DD in front of me too. 

I suspect you are looking at multiple browser tabs... 😄

[WES_HoundDog]

5 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

Indeed.  It's really just certain ships that have AP that is tweaked to work well on DD's and CLs.  Like the mentioned Gibby which can actually one-show some of the lower HP T10 DDs, but any other cruiser or DDs with special AP characteristics.  That can even include Petro... I often have AP loaded looking for Cits but if a DD shows a 45° angle that will allow it's .022 fuse to arm and dole out around 2500dmg per shell (for legendary Petro).   There are quite a few others that are itching for the situation to make their AP work like Z42, Daring and siblings, Harugumo/kita, but also some unexpected ships like Cleveland with it's .01 fuse.                                                                                                                        

I've had either the tallinn or mainz almost one round a dd.    An elbing poped out of smoke at 4k while i was broadside and had ap loaded.  I was like, well i'm dead.   Was quite a happy little captain after that shot.