Whale Hunting: A Guide to Predatory Game Mechanics

[Frostbow]

Sharing this infographic; I think this can help everyone every once in a while.

High-res version can be found here: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GLda9SUbUAAZ2m_?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[Wolfswetpaws]

Good to know.

[Type_93]

I’ve never understood people who can’t control their own budgets. Companies making money isn’t predatory. The blame will always lie with the individual. If you’re the type of person to blow all your money on things you don’t need, then being broke is the best way to learn restraint.  

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

8 minutes ago, Type_93 said:

I’ve never understood people who can’t control their own budgets. Companies making money isn’t predatory. The blame will always lie with the individual. If you’re the type of person to blow all your money on things you don’t need, then being broke is the best way to learn restraint.  

...or to enforce restraint...

[Admiral_Karasu]

Predatory practices in the gaming industry are a thing.

https://thesciencesurvey.com/editorial/2023/05/30/the-predatory-ways-in-which-video-game-companies-try-to-get-your-money/

[Type_93]

22 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Predatory practices in the gaming industry are a thing.

https://thesciencesurvey.com/editorial/2023/05/30/the-predatory-ways-in-which-video-game-companies-try-to-get-your-money/

You mean every industry. And it’s not predatory, it’s marketing.  

[Admiral_Karasu]

20 minutes ago, Type_93 said:

You mean every industry. And it’s not predatory, it’s marketing.  

Well, the science guys call it predatory, I'm not going to argue with them.

[Jakob Knight]

"Life is pain, Highness.  Anyone who says differently is selling something."

[Wolfswetpaws]

10 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

"Life is pain, Highness.  Anyone who says differently is selling something."

A line used in the movie The Princess Bride.
https://youtu.be/KS_f6O8mWsk?si=DaV55uZqNvImePwA

 

[Type_93]

49 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Well, the science guys call it predatory, I'm not going to argue with them.

Of coarse they would, the word “Predatory” in any title of any article makes it worth reading over a title that simply says “Video games formulate new ways to generate revenue, players with bad financial habits beware!”

[mashed68]

I don't feel bad for anyone who falls for this stuff. 

If it makes them happy then who cares.

If it ruins their life they must not have had much of a life to begin with. Who falls for gambling mechanics when you don't even win anything you can keep in real life ffs? 

[Admiral_Karasu]

25 minutes ago, Type_93 said:

Of coarse they would, the word “Predatory” in any title of any article makes it worth reading over a title that simply says “Video games formulate new ways to generate revenue, players with bad financial habits beware!”

You don't, for instance', see anything unfair about how random basically everything is about the mechanisms that WG uses to 'generate revenue'? Some people see loot boxes as a form of gamling, like the Belgian government for instance. At the minimum they are similar to buying raffle tickets. Now, there are a lot of unofficial raffles being organized on a community bases that aren't necessarily regulated, but anything on the scale of a business in most jurisdictions would require a degree of licensing and supervision. Frankly, I don't know if anything gaming related is properly supervised.

[Type_93]

2 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

You don't, for instance', see anything unfair about how random basically everything is about the mechanisms that WG uses to 'generate revenue'? Some people see loot boxes as a form of gamling, like the Belgian government for instance. At the minimum they are similar to buying raffle tickets. Now, there are a lot of unofficial raffles being organized on a community bases that aren't necessarily regulated, but anything on the scale of a business in most jurisdictions would require a degree of licensing and supervision. Frankly, I don't know if anything gaming related is properly supervised.

In short, no.  No problem at all. 
 

 

5 minutes ago, mashed68 said:

I don't feel bad for anyone who falls for this stuff. 

If it makes them happy then who cares.

If it ruins their life they must not have had much of a life to begin with. Who falls for gambling mechanics when you don't even win anything you can keep in real life ffs? 

This guy gets it^

[Admiral_Karasu]

20 minutes ago, mashed68 said:

If it makes them happy then who cares.

If it ruins their life they must not have had much of a life to begin with. Who falls for gambling mechanics when you don't even win anything you can keep in real life ffs? 

 

15 minutes ago, Type_93 said:

This guy gets it^

If by 'it' you mean a definition of predatory practices, then yes, I agree.

[Viridem]

"Ahah, screw people who are too stupid or weak to fall for obvious scams. I'm certainly not one of them, and will never ever be. For sure."

I agree that you can't regulate EVERYTHING, that you have to draw a line somewhere, but to show so little empathy for your less fortunate fellows...

It reflects poorly on your character and, mostly, you might end up playing yourself someday. We live together in the same society, codependently. If part of your society is falling apart, it will affect you in some way, at least indirectly.

I know I prefer knowing my neighbour rich and striving, rather than miserable and impovrished. At the very least, that's one less household living off my tax money...

 

"When people live together in harmony, the earth is a paradise. But every man has a bad side as well as a good side. There are times when only the bad comes out. Then the world's not paradise, but hell. Do you understand what I'm saying?" Musashi, Eiji Yoshikawa

In that part, he's talking about the importance of good manners, but certainly letting people gamble and get scammed, letting others scam them, isn't making the good come out and promote harmony among your own people.

[Type_93]

31 minutes ago, Viridem said:

but to show so little empathy for your less fortunate fellows..

They aren’t less fortunate. They have no self control over their urges. 

 

33 minutes ago, Viridem said:

We live together in the same society, codependently. If part of your society is falling apart, it will affect you in some way, at least indirectly.

So, because a few inept and financially irresponsible people out there can’t say no to gambling, the rest of us have to babysit them protect them from big bad capitalism? 
Society will be much better off if people would take responsibility for their actions rather than looking for places to lay blame for their own poor decisions.  
 If part of society is failing, let them fall. No better way for stupid people learn than by hitting rock bottom. 

[AdmiralThunder]

4 hours ago, Type_93 said:

I’ve never understood people who can’t control their own budgets. Companies making money isn’t predatory. The blame will always lie with the individual. If you’re the type of person to blow all your money on things you don’t need, then being broke is the best way to learn restraint.  

We don't agree on a lot of stuff WOWS related but I am with you here. This whole predatory, got to protect the kids, loot boxes make gambling addicts, etc....etc....etc.... is insane to me. Just passing the buck as far as personal responsibility goes and advocating for a loss of freedom. I wonder how these anti loot box/gambling folks would react if something they enjoyed suddenly became the target of government regulation or outright bans. I am guessing we hear an entirely different tune when the shoe is on the other foot so to speak LOL.

Apparently, they don't have the ability to just IGNORE the paid parts of gaming if they want. Oh wait...they do. It's pretty easy to avoid the whole "evil predatory gaming industry".

There are addicts for pretty much everything people do and enjoy in life. You will never stop that because humans will always mess up. Government regulation is NOT the answer to stopping addiction. If it were we would have no drinking, no drug use, no gambling, prostitution wouldn't exist, no fat people (like me LOL), etc... While some regulation by the government is warranted I fail to see how game loot boxes and the like, other than making sure the odds and content are known, is needed. I don't need the government telling me how to spend what little money they leave me after taxes. They already are too far into my life and wallet.

Edited April 18 by AdmiralThunder

[torino2dc]

1 minute ago, Type_93 said:

If part of society is failing, let them fall. No better way for stupid people learn than by hitting rock bottom.

If those people were isolated entities whose failure affected no one, then I would agree. 

But people are, for the most part, *connected* to other people. Letting an individual ruin themselves creates a cascade of suffering far beyond its origin point. We owe it to those innocents connected to the failure to try to limit the damage as best we can. 

It's not their fault that the brain has prominent weak spots that cannot be wholly patched even with extensive schooling. It *is* our fault, as a collective, if we continue to let these known weaknesses be exploited without doing something to curb the worst of it. 

[AdmiralThunder]

19 minutes ago, torino2dc said:

If those people were isolated entities whose failure affected no one, then I would agree. 

But people are, for the most part, *connected* to other people. Letting an individual ruin themselves creates a cascade of suffering far beyond its origin point. We owe it to those innocents connected to the failure to try to limit the damage as best we can. 

It's not their fault that the brain has prominent weak spots that cannot be wholly patched even with extensive schooling. It *is* our fault, as a collective, if we continue to let these known weaknesses be exploited without doing something to curb the worst of it. 

WHAT????

If someone spends their rent money on gambling instead of rent that impacts them, and maybe their family, that is about it. Even the landlord has a security deposit and many times insurance to cover them for lost rent. It is a very small, immediate group to the addict, impacted by the addict. I am not minimizing that impact on that small group but good lord it doesn't cascade down through society and impact all of us. Your argument works better for something like shoplifting. That is people doing something wrong that impacts everyone else through higher prices to cover the losses generated by the people who steal. 

If you want to use that logic you can say the same for drinking but that is legal, or drug use (legal in lots of places now too), and so forth. People have vices and we will never do away with that. Common sense reg's such as showing the odds at what you can get and the list of what you can get I am behind all the way but it stops there. No need to go further. 

I feel for anyone who suffers at the hand of an addict. Had one in my family (an adopted nephew) and I know the pain it can cause. But I would never expect others to give up their freedoms and things they enjoy, who can do so responsibly, because my nephew was a brain dead idiot. Just as I see no reason to have my right to buy paid content if I choose impacted by someone else who can't control themselves.

Some folks in these various threads are completely out of control with the hyperbole being thrown out about the evils of paid for gaming pixels. I am not trying to be a jerk so I apologize for it sounding that way but my lord people just stop with this overly dramatic crazy stuff please.

Edited April 18 by AdmiralThunder

[desmo_2]

25 minutes ago, torino2dc said:

If those people were isolated entities whose failure affected no one, then I would agree. 

But people are, for the most part, *connected* to other people. Letting an individual ruin themselves creates a cascade of suffering far beyond its origin point. We owe it to those innocents connected to the failure to try to limit the damage as best we can. 

It's not their fault that the brain has prominent weak spots that cannot be wholly patched even with extensive schooling. It *is* our fault, as a collective, if we continue to let these known weaknesses be exploited without doing something to curb the worst of it. 

I'm sorry...WHAT?!?

Who controls the "collective" of the stupid population?  Government?!?  Do YOU trust government to control the...I'm sorry...look out for the people?  If I am NOT part of the stupid population, I should also be controlled by government in the interest of "collective"???  Because that is what happens with blanket policies...they affect everyone.

There are crimes on the books for predatory exploitation, financially and otherwise, of the elderly and other groups.  If such an event happens, said actors should be prosecuted.

There are programs in place for those with issues to seek help for those issues.  Those treatment options should be based on individual circumstances.

I am fundamentally opposed to blanket policies and laws to "protect" all of the population from themselves because the government knows what's right for them!

Edited April 18 by desmo_2

[AdmiralThunder]

Note I am dropping out of this thread and the others about this same basic thing. At this point everything that can be said has been and to avoid hard feelings, fights, and breaking forum rules I am just going to bow out. If you address me and I don't answer that is why. Not being rude (and FYI it isn't because you won the argument either LOL).

Edited April 18 by AdmiralThunder

[Ensign Cthulhu]

4 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

the science guys

Which "science guys" are these?

Where are their reproducible data?

All that this ends up being is an excuse for poorly informed legislators to put ever more controls on how sensible people can spend their money because of the actions of an irresponsible few. That's tyranny. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

4 hours ago, Type_93 said:

Of coarse they would, the word “Predatory” in any title of any article makes it worth reading over a title that simply says “Video games formulate new ways to generate revenue, players with bad financial habits beware!”

Even "Science" has to be "sexy" to get their projects funded?  😄 

[Jakob Knight]

My personal view is that everyone is responsible for the choices they make and the mind they build.

 

We can't control everything that happens to us or the circumstances we are born into, but we can control how we deal with them and what beliefs and values we accept into ourselves.  As my father taught me, we decide who we accept as teachers, and we are answerable for the results of that.

 

There have always been dishonest salespeople and those who fall under their words.  Both are responsible for their actions or negligence.

 

 

  

Edited April 18 by Jakob Knight

[Wolfswetpaws]

6 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

I have spoken.

Are you channeling your inner Kuiil from Star Wars - Mandalorian or Pansy ('Mammy') Yokum from the Li'l Abner play & movie?  😉