Aethervox Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 (edited) A T2 random battle in NA - a very fast queue (to start). More Bots than real players. Battle was fast & upsetting. The enemy bots got surprisingly clever in their movements & reactions - like the MM was 'arranging' things. I just played my DD as best I could - torping as opportune & firing as opportune for a 'Tatra'. Amazing how responsive the Bots were to my torping - suspiciously so, as usual. My team ended up winning & I got first place on my team. However, the insane play that had to be going on makes me wonder how badly WG RNG tries to influence what happens. So bad, in fact, that one wonders how long WG crap can continue (& this is even with a W let alone the crap one sees with the Ls). Hopefully, the replay works (I know War Failing sometimes doesn't allow a replay to be shown on another site). Outright crap losses all due to WG WoWS MM barf & even 'barf' when you win. I'm beginning to play infrequently and/or not at all, most random battles are now so bad whether W or L. 20240416_183544_PWSD102-Tatra_34_OC_islands.wowsreplay Edited April 17 by Aethervox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostbow Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 30 minutes ago, Aethervox said: Amazing how responsive the Bots were to my torping - suspiciously so, as usual. Can confirm. I experience the same almost each time the matchmaker fill the team roster with bots. First battle, the bots of the enemy team play exceedingly dumb, putting the human player on a serious disadvantage early on. The next battle, the dumb bots are on my team and it was literally the opposite of the previous match. This is a pattern I've seen and it seems to me that it is deliberately designed and implemented to allow for a wide range of battle experience in low tiers. Some battles will be quickly won, some will take 20 minutes to complete. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 Sometimes it works out, even in a loss. I just had a fun 6 kill game in my Mikasa...but the enemy human Chester had to spoil it all and smartly kite away for his win. Dastardly enemy! 🙂 It was a lot more fun than the Ranked game where our one destroyer YOLO'd immediately to his death than blamed us all for not supporting him...except we did and three more of our ships died in the next two minutes because of their poor positioning trying to support the fool. I got top of the team and 'saved a star' by doing 32k and sinking their enemy DD in garbage time. World of Warships is NOT a well balanced shooter with high skill elements. It is a meme arcade run by an unregulated casino gaming company. Set your expectations accordingly. Now that you are depressed...watch the replay in this post. Meme secondary Mikasa gets over 500 secondary hits in a tier 3 match. 20240416_231623_PJSB011-Mikasa-1905_01_solomon_islands.wowsreplay 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethervox Posted April 17 Author Share Posted April 17 3 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: watch the replay in this post. Meme secondary Mikasa gets over 500 secondary hits You did well (I watched it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensign Cthulhu Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 9 hours ago, Aethervox said: Amazing how responsive the Bots were to my torping - suspiciously so, as usual. If you'd played enough co-op, you would long since have realized how bots behave with regard to torpedoes. This has been open knowledge to co-op players for a very long time. Seems you expected a walkover because it's just bots. I can guarantee you, sometimes the bots take it up a notch - and you'd better be ready for that. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said: If you'd played enough co-op, you would long since have realized how bots behave with regard to torpedoes. This has been open knowledge to co-op players for a very long time. Seems you expected a walkover because it's just bots. I can guarantee you, sometimes the bots take it up a notch - and you'd better be ready for that. +1 Once upon a time I witnessed a green-team 'bot "Leveling-up" in the middle of a battle and proceding to sink 3 red-team bots while being surrounded in a contested capture circle. Was priceless. 🙂 I tend to do one of two things to torpedo 'Bots. 1. Launch from "point blank" range. Their hull simply won't have the capability to out-maneuver or "just dodge" in the available distance and time. Works on human players, too. 2. Launch torpedoes and then select a different target to shoot at. The first target may ignore the torpedoes (until it can detect them) while I'm firing main-guns at one of its teammates. I also think that the 'Bots pathing may also serve to make them zig-zag just enough to evade a long-distance torpedo attack, on occasion. Edited April 17 by Wolfswetpaws 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakob Knight Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 (edited) 2 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said: If you'd played enough co-op, you would long since have realized how bots behave with regard to torpedoes. This has been open knowledge to co-op players for a very long time. Seems you expected a walkover because it's just bots. I can guarantee you, sometimes the bots take it up a notch - and you'd better be ready for that. Indeed. No new news here. I will say while bots may be fatally predictable, they do have one quality that some players aren't used to...they have no fear. They will happily cruise through all fire to get a shotgun torpedo salvo on you even if it means they will receive the same. This can lead players to badly underestimate how lethal they can be. Edited April 17 by Jakob Knight 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 1 minute ago, Jakob Knight said: Indeed. No new news here. I will say bots may be predictable, but they do have one quality that some players aren't used to...they have no fear. They will happily cruise through all fire to get a shotgun torpedo salvo on you even if it means they will receive the same. This can lead players to badly underestimate how lethal they can be. I like that the 'Bots never lack for courage. 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 3 hours ago, Jakob Knight said: Indeed. No new news here. I will say while bots may be fatally predictable, they do have one quality that some players aren't used to...they have no fear. They will happily cruise through all fire to get a shotgun torpedo salvo on you even if it means they will receive the same. This can lead players to badly underestimate how lethal they can be. Indeed. I have to watch out for rams way more vigilantly when fighting bots than humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torino2dc Posted April 17 Share Posted April 17 1. If a bot is selected as target while a player launches torps, they will instantly course correct to dodge. This is a well-documented phenomenon. 2. Low tier matches with lots of bots often snowball depending on which team has more torpedo cruisers. This is also a known phenomenon. 3. RNG is an acknowledge element of the game. It affects everyone equally, but not simultaneously. 4. RNG can and will decide the outcome of some matches. Over a long enough time frame, the wins and losses caused by RNG will even out. 5. If the game is unfun whether you win or lose, then that is a strong indication that you should stop playing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mashed68 Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 In low tier co-op you torp from point blank, not sure why you'd waste torpedos any other way. Not like they'll hurt you while you charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 1 hour ago, torino2dc said: 1. If a bot is selected as target while a player launches torps, they will instantly course correct to dodge. This is a well-documented phenomenon. 2. Low tier matches with lots of bots often snowball depending on which team has more torpedo cruisers. This is also a known phenomenon. 3. RNG is an acknowledge element of the game. It affects everyone equally, but not simultaneously. 4. RNG can and will decide the outcome of some matches. Over a long enough time frame, the wins and losses caused by RNG will even out. 5. If the game is unfun whether you win or lose, then that is a strong indication that you should stop playing. 3 and 4 are assumptions. It should work that way. We don't have absolute proof that it does. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torino2dc Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 7 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: 3 and 4 are assumptions. It should work that way. We don't have absolute proof that it does. That is correct. A lot of folks conflate WG's marketing/communications (which has a track record of shitty behavior and grinding hard up against the line of duplicitousness) with the part of WG that builds the experience once you press 'battle', which to my knowledge has not engaged in such behavior. I am happy to stand corrected though. One could take the position that 'one rotten apple spoils the barrel,' i.e. if part of the company is comfortable being shitty, then we should assume the whole company must be so. I don't find that position useful or productive. If you want to improve as a player, then the best assumption to make is that the game is an honest reflection of your inputs, and that if something didn't go the way you want it to, then your sub-optimal play is to blame. If you want to have the maximum amount of fun, then thinking about what might be going on in the background takes you out of the moment-to-moment gameplay -- who gives a hoot? -- just hit 'battle on!' In fact, entertaining conspiracy theories about the game mechanics seems tailor-made for perpetual misery: you won't improve as a player because you don't trust the game's feedback on your actions, and you won't have fun because you can't just enjoy the moment-to-moment gameplay for what it is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakob Knight Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 5 hours ago, torino2dc said: In fact, entertaining conspiracy theories about the game mechanics seems tailor-made for perpetual misery: you won't improve as a player because you don't trust the game's feedback on your actions, and you won't have fun because you can't just enjoy the moment-to-moment gameplay for what it is. You, sir, have expressed anti-conspiracy views, which confirms to this Court that you are guilty of conspiracy against the conspiracy. As punishment for anti-conspiracy conspiracy is set forth in the Conspiracy Dictates section seven-eight-two subsection eighty-two-B, which states 'Any attempt to disprove conspiracy shall be considered the same as being in the employ of the subject of the conspiracy and with the same penalty', it is the determination of this Court ( reinforced by judicious usage of hearsay and private conferences), that you be labeled a Wargaming sympathizer, all of your social media credits and accolades be revoked retroactively, and you shall be subjected to public mudslinging by the loyal and upstanding fana...er, members of the conspiracy until you recant your heretical beliefs in such blasphemies as 'proof' and 'truth' and 'evidence'! May RNG have mercy upon you! 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 33 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said: You, sir, have expressed anti-conspiracy views, which confirms to this Court that you are guilty of conspiracy against the conspiracy. As punishment for anti-conspiracy conspiracy is set forth in the Conspiracy Dictates section seven-eight-two subsection eighty-two-B, which states 'Any attempt to disprove conspiracy shall be considered the same as being in the employ of the subject of the conspiracy and with the same penalty', it is the determination of this Court ( reinforced by judicious usage of hearsay and private conferences), that you be labeled a Wargaming sympathizer, all of your social media credits and accolades be revoked retroactively, and you shall be subjected to public mudslinging by the loyal and upstanding fana...er, members of the conspiracy until you recant your heretical beliefs in such blasphemies as 'proof' and 'truth' and 'evidence'! May RNG have mercy upon you! I dissent against this clearly unjust verdict! 😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gasboy Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 On 4/16/2024 at 10:11 PM, Aethervox said: Amazing how responsive the Bots were to my torping - suspiciously so, Almost as if there's a skill that lets them know someone is torping? 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gasboy Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 14 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: 3 and 4 are assumptions. It should work that way. We don't have absolute proof that it does. You also lack proof that it doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 43 minutes ago, Gasboy said: Almost as if there's a skill that lets them know someone is torping? 🤔 Priority Target skill? 🙂 https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:List_of_Commander_Skills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 1 hour ago, Gasboy said: You also lack proof that it doesn't. Yes. We don't know. We hope and assume that it should be equal for everyone...we don't actually know if it is actually equal for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invicta2012 Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 PT only counts main battery guns, not torps. Which can be used to give you a good idea that someone has switched to torps but not that they've been fired. I think the bots either have an improved vigilance skill or are moving towards the nearest spotted target, which takes them off path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SureBridge Posted April 18 Share Posted April 18 Ummm. The bots know where all of the ships and torpedoes are at all times. In case you were wondering why the BB you were stalking "happens" to have its main guns pointed at you despite your undetected status. The bots do not respond to this information except under select circumstances. The best way to "stealth torp" a bot is to hit the "X" key (unselect the target) before firing torps, since the coding appears to be such that bots will turn when a human fires torps at them when selected as a target. There does seem to be some pathfinding involved in this (will any of these torps hit on my current heading?) but firing torps based on where a bot will need to turn does not cause the bot to turn, and they will then (stupidly) run into your torps when they avoid terrain (most useful on maps with big islands like Estuary and 2 brothers). Net:net - firing on bots with your torps in the "white" torp indicator will cause them to turn. Firing "deliberate misses" (into where they will turn) does not cause them to turn. Deselecting them as a target before firing will not cause them to turn. Hilarity bonuses for selecting a different (close) bot, and having them turn across the ship you are actually trying to hit, pushing both ships into the torps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gasboy Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 22 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said: Priority Target skill? 🙂 https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:List_of_Commander_Skills Indeed! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gasboy Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 21 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said: Yes. We don't know. We hope and assume that it should be equal for everyone...we don't actually know if it is actually equal for everyone. I think it's better to assume it's equal for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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