SoshiSone Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 Had a red player come up in chat and accuse moi of "damage farming"...in my Tiger no less. LOL. DD player was upset that I radar'd him twice (from smoke), and our team focused and deleted him early. Perhaps the only redeeming highlight for the green team. I guess from his perspective it felt like damage farming. Irony is while we won our flank, the reds rolled our other flank to the point we evaporated. It eventually became 8 on 1 (me). I was able to finish off a BB (I had to light up with radar because he was extremely damaged and went silent on me and I was smoked up) and serendiptiously also lit up a DD closing on my flank. I finished the BB quickly (but it still takes several salvos because, you know, 6 inch AP vs BB) and then switched to engage the DD (did I ever mention how fast Tiger's turrets rotate!). Pulled out of smoke just in time to avoid his torp spread and then was able to finish him off as I bow tanked the other SIX reds now in range. Then went one on six and was just a salvo or two from taking out a Cleveland when they finally got me. And while I was fighting for my life? Long dead red DD player (still watching) lamenting my "damage farming" ways (bow tanked firing one turret with two guns at six ships all focued on me). And my "delaying" a lost game. Tigers don't just give up. They go down fighting. It might be 8 on 1 (or eventually 6 on 1), but I'll keep shooting until you stop me. 10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrairiePlayer Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 I wish we had a pinned thread on "Stupid things people have said to me in a match." You played a smart match - congratulations. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 16 minutes ago, PrairiePlayer said: You played a smart match - congratulations. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxNihilanxx Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) 20 minutes ago, PrairiePlayer said: I wish we had a pinned thread on "Stupid things people have said to me in a match." You mean things like subs and DDs spamming "I need intelligence data" or "FFS Khaba, cap"? Edited April 8 by xxNihilanxx 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethervox Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 2 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said: DDs spamming "I need intelligence data" Well, one could say they do require 'intelligence data' (their own) 😁 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethervox Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 50 minutes ago, SoshiSone said: "damage farming". I will accept all the damage to the enemy that Wedgie targeting resolutions allows me, tyvm. 😁 51 minutes ago, SoshiSone said: "delaying" a lost game. There is no delay as Wedgie allows one to immediately play the same ship again as soon as it is sunk. Besides, that DD, although sunk early, got the W. In the DD's defence, no one likes being sunk early (or first) which can happen to those DDs who scout. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoshiSone Posted April 8 Author Share Posted April 8 30 minutes ago, Aethervox said: Besides, that DD, although sunk early, got the W. In the DD's defence, no one likes being sunk early (or first) which can happen to those DDs who scout. True. He was scouting, got caught by radar (damaged a bit), but properly retreated in a relatively good state. At the same time DDs go scouting, I push in my Tiger until I get contact, smoke up and radar. Dodge the inevtiable torp spread, "farm" whatever damage I can on anyone else while I have the smoke, then retreat away. Rinse and repeat. DD had the same objective. So on the rinse repeat, I caught him a second time...and the team (and I do mean team, as Tiger doesn't have DPM to take out a DD solo), we got him. As I have plenty of smoke, I shoot anything else I can hit while I've got the smoke coverage. That is the Tiger way. There is also a bit of trick you can do with Tiger due to that 25mm bow and manageable BB threats. After radaring the contact, PUSH into the DD and wait on popping smoke. This extends the radar coverage over a retreating DD with minimal risks to self. It's situational, but I'm always looking for it as my radar is about 45 seconds IIRC. Good DD players can often extricate themselves by range before the timer runs out. But if I can keep pushing for several seconds, it keeps them vulnerable longer. Oh, and one last bit about damage farming. I'm often only allowed one turret becuase I can't sit broadisde in smoke. Sometimes I can get two turrets on a target will still bow pointing to the torp threat. But in general, a lot of my smoke firing has to respect the torp threat. Tiger doesn't have hydro. Gotta know how to comb 'em. I still get caught out now and again, especially when working on my escape manuever. Them the risks. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Karasu Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 'Retreat' is a dirty word though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 5 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said: 'Retreat' is a dirty word though. You're saying that as though dirty was a bad word? 😉 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WES_HoundDog Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 (edited) Like, isn't damage farmer another name for the Tiger? I mean, it doesn't actually farm potential damage does it? Yes, you might be damage farming in the equivalent of a coal ash pond, but he's right, technically. Edited April 9 by WES_HoundDog 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Slayer Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 9 hours ago, PrairiePlayer said: I wish we had a pinned thread on "Stupid things people have said to me in a match." My personal fav is being accused of hacks in a DD, because the deep-water torps fired at me went through my ship without exploding. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 They accused @SoshiSone of being a "farmer". Heh. 😉 Perhaps they are not aware of the meaning of "bravery"? Quote Village Boy 2 : We're ashamed to live here. Our fathers are... cowards. [O'Reilly takes the boy over his knee and spanks him] O'Reilly : [harshly] Don't you ever say that again about your fathers, because they are not cowards! You think I am brave because I carry a gun? Well, your fathers are much braver because they carry responsibility, for you, your brothers, your sisters, and your mothers. And this responsibility is like a big rock that weighs a ton. It bends and it twists them until finally it buries them under the ground. And there's nobody says they have to do this. They do it because they love you, and because they want to. I have never had this kind of courage. Running a farm, working like a mule every day with no guarantee anything will ever come of it. This is bravery. That's why I never even started anything like that... that's why I never will. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054047/characters/nm0000314?ref_=tt_cl_c_3 And perhaps we should also remember the prayer Conan spoke before going into battle? Quote Conan : Crom, I have never prayed to you before. I have no tongue for it. No one, not even you, will remember if we were good men or bad. Why we fought, or why we died. All that matters is that two stood against many. That's what's important! Valor pleases you, Crom... so grant me one request. Grant me revenge! And if you do not listen, then to HELL with you! https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082198/characters/nm0000216?ref_=tt_cl_c_1 In this case, @SoshiSone sailed against "many" and sunk some of them, too. In my understanding, Sontarans dream of such a glorious opportunity. 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunkCostFallacy Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 I've never understood the phrase 'Damage Farmer/Farming'. Ummmm ... you're on the other team. As far as I'm concerned your entire purpose for existing is for me to get as much damage as humanly possible from you, then send you to a watery grave to feed the fishes. Another name for the other team is 'Target'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project45_Opytny Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 14 minutes ago, SunkCostFallacy said: I've never understood the phrase 'Damage Farmer/Farming'. Ummmm ... you're on the other team. As far as I'm concerned your entire purpose for existing is for me to get as much damage as humanly possible from you, then send you to a watery grave to feed the fishes. Another name for the other team is 'Target'. Different damage caused to different enemies are of different importance as they are of different proportion to different HP pools of ships having different roles and niches. An extreme case may be taking more risk and spending more effort to eliminate enemy's only spotting destroyer not too long after contact, versus fighting an 18-km battle of attrition from the second line against a similarly positioned Conqueror/Devastation. "Damage farming" refers to perceived practice of disregard of eliminating more valuable targets first while focusing on "more favorable" targets that may rack up damage faster in short term. Though it has been proved that players with higher win rate also have higher average damage. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunkCostFallacy Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 17 minutes ago, Project45_Opytny said: Different damage caused to different enemies are of different importance as they are of different proportion to different HP pools of ships having different roles and niches. An extreme case may be taking more risk and spending more effort to eliminate enemy's only spotting destroyer not too long after contact, versus fighting an 18-km battle of attrition from the second line against a similarly positioned Conqueror/Devastation. "Damage farming" refers to perceived practice of disregard of eliminating more valuable targets first while focusing on "more favorable" targets that may rack up damage faster in short term. Though it has been proved that players with higher win rate also have higher average damage. Interesting. It seems counter intuitive to me. But in COOP the matches don't last long enough to be second guessing and stressing about what other people are doing. Mind you, now that I think about it I recall a player frothing at the mouth in an Asymmetric Battle because he'd exposed himself to half the red team, and I wasn't able to 'support' him because I didn't have LOS on any of the bots. He got quite incensed that I refused to GET LOS on them because we were losing and I needed to cap. I ended up blocking him, so I don't know what his reaction was when I won the match. So perhaps it's not a purely PVP phenomenon to kvetch about other players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Karasu Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 6 hours ago, Project45_Opytny said: Different damage caused to different enemies are of different importance as they are of different proportion to different HP pools of ships having different roles and niches. An extreme case may be taking more risk and spending more effort to eliminate enemy's only spotting destroyer not too long after contact, versus fighting an 18-km battle of attrition from the second line against a similarly positioned Conqueror/Devastation. "Damage farming" refers to perceived practice of disregard of eliminating more valuable targets first while focusing on "more favorable" targets that may rack up damage faster in short term. Though it has been proved that players with higher win rate also have higher average damage. If we take a rational look at this. I don't pay attention to 'more valuable' or 'more favorable' myself, I wouldn't even know how to figure such ones out. What I am struggling with is, though, how to prioritize the targets. Those that are the closest? Those that are the most dangerous? Those that are the easiest to hit? That's something I haven't been able to really decide over all these years, which would and which order of preference make the best sense. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desmo_2 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 (edited) 5 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said: If we take a rational look at this. I don't pay attention to 'more valuable' or 'more favorable' myself, I wouldn't even know how to figure such ones out. What I am struggling with is, though, how to prioritize the targets. Those that are the closest? Those that are the most dangerous? Those that are the easiest to hit? That's something I haven't been able to really decide over all these years, which would and which order of preference make the best sense. Destroyers and subs are nearly always priority targets. They are the best suited for spotting the enemy team while staying concealed, themselves. Late in the game they (DD's) can quickly move to take crucial late-game cap points. Even in a battleship while loaded with AP, if a destroyer is spotted I will probably shoot at it. Any damage dealt is important since they have lower HP pools to begin with. Late in the game, if your team has no destroyers and the other team has one or two, it isn't looking great for your team. Obviously if a cruiser is 1/2 the distance from you as the nearest spotted destroyer, that danger close ship would be your priority. Edited April 9 by desmo_2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunkCostFallacy Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 2 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said: If we take a rational look at this. I don't pay attention to 'more valuable' or 'more favorable' myself, I wouldn't even know how to figure such ones out. What I am struggling with is, though, how to prioritize the targets. Those that are the closest? Those that are the most dangerous? Those that are the easiest to hit? That's something I haven't been able to really decide over all these years, which would and which order of preference make the best sense. Anything with torpedoes. I hate those illegitimate offspring of closely related parents! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 43 minutes ago, SunkCostFallacy said: I hate those illegitimate offspring of closely related parents! As if the offspring had any choice regarding their parentage or "spawning location" on the map. 🙄 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoshiSone Posted April 9 Author Share Posted April 9 4 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said: If we take a rational look at this. I don't pay attention to 'more valuable' or 'more favorable' myself, I wouldn't even know how to figure such ones out. What I am struggling with is, though, how to prioritize the targets. Those that are the closest? Those that are the most dangerous? Those that are the easiest to hit? That's something I haven't been able to really decide over all these years, which would and which order of preference make the best sense. Tiger makes it easy. DDs DDs DDs and more DDs. In fact, in some regards, Tiger is the quintessential DD killer. Especially with supporting fire. For example, Tiger is one of those radar cruisers where its detect ring is about the same as its radar range. If I get detected, that means there's a target within my radar range. One of my strategies is to push to contact (i.e., I get a detection notification), pop radar, hit the brakes, pop smoke. Then it's game on against the DD. If I have a good team with good supporting fire, the DD goes down quickly. If it's just me, then I often can't get a kill but can often get a DD down by half...and if nothing else, force a retreat. Once the DD retreats, and I have plenty of smoke left, I'll target cruisers and BBs. Tiger only has AP, so it's mostly superstructures that I target. In this case it becomes the proverbial UK CL smoke shooter with crappy DPS. And I'll position to avoid the torp spread that is sure to come my way. Then pick a good point to beat feet away before my smoke goes away. Also, Tiger likes open caps without any terrain. Its biggest threat is another radar ship. These typically avoid open caps and prefer to set up where they have terrain. I have capped many open (clear terrain) caps as a bottom tier T8 in T10 matches. Either because no DD goes there, or the one that does gets radar'd and focus fired by my team. Somewhat ironic, but due to the lethality of T10 attacks, Tiger's strengths (catching a DD in radar) often pays much bigger dividends in T10 than in lower tier matches. Not because Tiger can radar and kill, but because Tiger can radar and the TEAM can kill. Of course, on the flip side, I also will get focused by the big guns at T10..between the time I get spotted and I get smoke coverage. But with experience, the benefits of getting a T10 DD kill outweigh the risks. That said, I also have to play the terrain game on many maps...just like any other radar cruiser. Oh, its good to know enemy ship radar range and time. I can literally wait out many RU long range radar cruisers because (although they have long range) their persistence is short. It's the pucker factor. Get thin...and pray. The pain will...hopefully....be short lived. Tiger is mostly glass. So it's not always a picnic. I do run the risk of so DS. But I've found the risk to be worth it if I play smart otherwise. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugilistic Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 (edited) On 4/8/2024 at 10:17 AM, xxNihilanxx said: "FFS Khaba, cap"? I pulled a muscle. In my face. Edited April 10 by Pugilistic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desmo_2 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 11 hours ago, SoshiSone said: Tiger makes it easy. DDs DDs DDs and more DDs. In fact, in some regards, Tiger is the quintessential DD killer. Especially with supporting fire. Entire quote edited for thread brevity, but it can be read in its entirety just above. And, it is an EXCELLENT lesson on how to play Tiger '59 effectively. Comp'd for a very well written tutorial. I consumed your advice and plan to utilize it myself. Many thanks! 🏆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nautic_Hunt Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 Soviet gunboats - "Noob DD spot, go cap" etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New_Jersey_prpr Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 hour ago, Nautic_Hunt said: Soviet gunboats - "Noob DD spot, go cap" etc I've got a perfect solution for this case. Whenever I want to play a gunboat DD like a cruiser (and that's most cases) I disable the chat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desmo_2 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 Tiger '59 is challenging, but fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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