Tirpitz The Most Bombed Warship Of The Second World War But Apparently WG Gives It Crap AA

[tm63au]

Tirpitz is one of my favourite ships so I have some bias I guess, it was the most air attacked warship of WW2 so the Germans outfitted it time and time again with more AA guns, by the end of its life the ship was bristling with Naval flak.

However WG apparently feels Bismarck ( another favourite ) has to have more along with a lot of other ships in the game, based on historical armament in game terms Tirpitz should be a NO FLY ZONE for any sensible CV player and yet it gets bombed the crap out of repeatedly.

I don't expect the ship to be unsinkable but really what was WG thinking, I have pondered this over the years playing the game and are just lost for words.

By 1944 she carried 70 2cm flak guns by my calculations.       

[majmac]

But, AA did not stop the attacks on it.

Perhaps it had WoWS specced AA? 😜

[Project45_Opytny]

While 105mm SK C/33 are at least decent, 20mm AA are only marginally useful and far from "no-fly zone" for a battleship both IRL and in game, especially considering Tirpitz's mid range guns remain the awful semi-automic 37mm SK C/30.

[OT2_2]

9 minutes ago, Project45_Opytny said:

remain the awful semi-automic 37mm SK C/30

I assume they were replaced during wartime by 40 mm bofors same as on most other German units from DD to BB. Tirpitz AA suite was really good as she could show off during the attack on her by British Naval aircraft / carrier. I believe it were Scuba aircraft, which were completely annihilated. 

 

Edited April 2 by OT2_2

[Tpaktop2_1 NA]

OP that is because all WoWS AA is crap. The AA guns don't load until they see the eyes of the pilots. I won't go into why AA gunned ships don't function anymore within WoWS. IMO, the AA crews need to be keel haul. 😜

[Wolfswetpaws]

3 hours ago, tm63au said:

Tirpitz is one of my favourite ships so I have some bias I guess, it was the most air attacked warship of WW2 so the Germans outfitted it time and time again with more AA guns, by the end of its life the ship was bristling with Naval flak.

However WG apparently feels Bismarck ( another favourite ) has to have more along with a lot of other ships in the game, based on historical armament in game terms Tirpitz should be a NO FLY ZONE for any sensible CV player and yet it gets bombed the crap out of repeatedly.

I don't expect the ship to be unsinkable but really what was WG thinking, I have pondered this over the years playing the game and are just lost for words.

By 1944 she carried 70 2cm flak guns by my calculations.       

Historically, The Tirpitz failed to use maneuvers to avoid getting bombed.  😉 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tallboy_(bomb)

[iDuckman]

Parked in her fjord, Tirpitz was surrounded by powerful and well placed shore installations.  Also by terrain that prevented certain types of attacks.  Consider that while evaluating her AA capabilities.

 

[Kruzenstern]

4 hours ago, tm63au said:

based on historical armament in game terms Tirpitz should be a NO FLY ZONE for any sensible CV player and yet it gets bombed the crap out of repeatedly.

Well, if I look at

List of Allied attacks on the German battleship Tirpitz

I don't find the Tirpitz' AA especially effective. The losses are very mild and some of them are probably from fighters, land based AA and weather/other effects.

 

4 hours ago, tm63au said:

By 1944 she carried 70 2cm flak guns by my calculations.   

And those were probably as useful as the 25mm popguns the japanese garnished their ships with to little effect.

Edited April 2 by Kruzenstern

[mashed68]

Historically, Tirpitz was sunk by air attack. 

WG is just making sure that comes true in the game as well. 

[Yedwy]

1 hour ago, iDuckman said:

Parked in her fjord, Tirpitz was surrounded by powerful and well placed shore installations.  Also by terrain that prevented certain types of attacks.  Consider that while evaluating her AA capabilities.

 

This

[Wulf_Ace]

6 hours ago, tm63au said:

Tirpitz is one of my favourite ships so I have some bias I guess, it was the most air attacked warship of WW2 so the Germans outfitted it time and time again with more AA guns, by the end of its life the ship was bristling with Naval flak.

However WG apparently feels Bismarck ( another favourite ) has to have more along with a lot of other ships in the game, based on historical armament in game terms Tirpitz should be a NO FLY ZONE for any sensible CV player and yet it gets bombed the crap out of repeatedly.

I don't expect the ship to be unsinkable but really what was WG thinking, I have pondered this over the years playing the game and are just lost for words.

By 1944 she carried 70 2cm flak guns by my calculations.       

youe first mistake was thinking this game has anything to do with correct history 😄

AA cruisers that very specificly made to deal with planes have weak AA is the best example 😄

[kriegerfaust]

• Y20 × 5 in (127 mm)/38 cal guns
• 80 × 40 mm (1.6 in) AA guns
• 49 × 20 mm (0.79 in) AA guns
• • 12 × 15 cm (5.9 in) L/55 (6 × 2)
  • 16 × 10.5 cm (4.1 in) SK C/33 (8 × 2)
  • 16 × 3.7 cm (1.5 in) SK C/30 (8 × 2)
  • 12 × 2 cm (0.79 in) FlaK 30 (12 × 1)
• Modifications:
  • 58 × 2 cm FlaK 30
  • 40 vs 3.7CM ROF (120 VS 30) Range (7k vs 8k)
  • 20 vs 2CM ROF (300 VS 120) Range (5k vs 6k)
• Iowa vs Tirpitz that does not even include the 5-inch dual purpose if Tirpitz became good Iowa would make Carriers unplayable

 

[Navalpride33]

9 hours ago, tm63au said:

Tirpitz is one of my favourite ships so I have some bias I guess, it was the most air attacked warship of WW2 so the Germans outfitted it time and time again with more AA guns, by the end of its life the ship was bristling with Naval flak.

However WG apparently feels Bismarck ( another favourite ) has to have more along with a lot of other ships in the game, based on historical armament in game terms Tirpitz should be a NO FLY ZONE for any sensible CV player and yet it gets bombed the crap out of repeatedly.

I don't expect the ship to be unsinkable but really what was WG thinking, I have pondered this over the years playing the game and are just lost for words.

By 1944 she carried 70 2cm flak guns by my calculations.       

AA mechanic... This topic will always be contested. So far in WOWS, since its not a sim game, some things exists because WG says so.

AA was nerf'd to appease a certain player base population. The CV masters of WOWS...

Who have the best AA in the game?

CVs

In the days of RTS CV, AA was delegated to cruisers, BBs, and maybe one DD.

Now everyone EXCEPT the CV have crappy AA.

So why should CVs have great in game AA mechanic.. Great secondaries in the game.. And, deletion power of cruisers with bombs...

Because WG says so.. 🙈

[Wolfswetpaws]

4 hours ago, Wulf_Ace said:

youe first mistake was thinking this game has anything to do with correct history 😄

AA cruisers that very specificly made to deal with planes have weak AA is the best example 😄

In-game AA is more effective than AA was in real life.
"Change my mind."  😉 

https://www.history.navy.mil/research/library/online-reading-room/title-list-alphabetically/a/antiaircraft-action-summary.html

[Unlooky]

10 hours ago, tm63au said:

Tirpitz is one of my favourite ships so I have some bias I guess, it was the most air attacked warship of WW2 so the Germans outfitted it time and time again with more AA guns, by the end of its life the ship was bristling with Naval flak.

However WG apparently feels Bismarck ( another favourite ) has to have more along with a lot of other ships in the game, based on historical armament in game terms Tirpitz should be a NO FLY ZONE for any sensible CV player and yet it gets bombed the crap out of repeatedly.

I don't expect the ship to be unsinkable but really what was WG thinking, I have pondered this over the years playing the game and are just lost for words.

By 1944 she carried 70 2cm flak guns by my calculations.       

Surface AA is significantly more effective in game than real life. 

Surviving multiple attacks does not mean your ship is particularly effective at shooting down airplanes. It only means that you can survive air dropped armaments. 

Are you sure you didn't mean to post this on Axis History Forum? 

[mashed68]

5 hours ago, Wulf_Ace said:

youe first mistake was thinking this game has anything to do with correct history 😄

AA cruisers that very specificly made to deal with planes have weak AA is the best example 😄

Lets not forget DD's with better AA then battleships with 4x the AA guns. 

[pepe_trueno]

46 minutes ago, mashed68 said:

Lets not forget DD's with better AA then battleships with 4x the AA guns. 

 

gouden leeuw 12x1 40mm : 536 with 90% accuracy continuous damage 

vermont           21x4 40mm: 536 with 75% accuracy continuous damage

bonus point gouden in the description is presented as a 1940 design while vermont is presented as a 1945 design

The dutch must have used for the gouden a technology that got lost in time because the eendracht (t7 of the same line and presented as a 1945 design) has 17x2 40mm that only do 650 continuous damage.

 

 

 

 

 

[Project45_Opytny]

3 hours ago, pepe_trueno said:

 

gouden leeuw 12x1 40mm : 536 with 90% accuracy continuous damage 

vermont           21x4 40mm: 536 with 75% accuracy continuous damage

bonus point gouden in the description is presented as a 1940 design while vermont is presented as a 1945 design

The dutch must have used for the gouden a technology that got lost in time because the eendracht (t7 of the same line and presented as a 1945 design) has 17x2 40mm that only do 650 continuous damage.

 

 

 

 

 

WG have been using two systems of denoting a paper ship's "design year" at the same time that causes funny instances like this. In short, one is the acutal design year of the ship's general configurations, like Gouden Leeuw 1940 (designing and research on the Project 1047 continued into spring 1940 until being ended by German invasion), the other is the ship's "configuration year" (that means Eendracht is shown in a hypothetical 1945 status, had she been somehow completed in Britain during WWII, and the infamous case of "Edgar 1975"). Rules for deciding which system to take haven't been studied yet.

Back to GL herself, she uses the Cold War Bofors 40mm L/70 Model 1948 AA guns, that are of a new model designed against Cold War enemies, fire twice fast than WWII legacy 40mm L/60 and use heavier shells and presumedly also Cold-War era AA directors and fire control system. And WG's AA effectiveness coefficient... that is Balans™ and not much new can be said.

15 hours ago, OT2_2 said:

I assume they were replaced during wartime by 40 mm bofors same as on most other German units from DD to BB. Tirpitz AA suite was really good as she could show off during the attack on her by British Naval aircraft / carrier. I believe it were Scuba aircraft, which were completely annihilated. 

 

I have yet to find sources confirming that Tirpitz was refitted with 40mm Bofors.

Also I think you are referring to Blackburn Skua?

[invicta2012]

11 hours ago, Project45_Opytny said:

Also I think you are referring to Blackburn Skua?

I think the Skua was out of the front line at that point (although it had made its mark in history). The FAA threw everything but the kitchen sink at Tirpitz, mind.