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The Battle of the River Plate - Battle Tactics, Ships and Armament

Admiral_Karasu

By Admiral_Karasu
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Admiral_Karasu Grand Master

Admiral_Karasu

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For discussing the battle tactics at the Battle of the River Plate as well as the ships and their armament.

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Admiral_Karasu Grand Master

Admiral_Karasu

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The historical ships that were present during the events. (Links to Wikipedia.)

Graf Spee

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_cruiser_Admiral_Graf_Spee

Altmark

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tanker_Altmark

HMS Ajax

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Ajax_(22)

HMNZS Achilles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMNZS_Achilles

HMS Exeter

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Exeter_(68)

HMS Cumberland

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Cumberland_(57)

 

Starring

USS Salem as the Graf Spee

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Salem_(CA-139)

RFA Olna as the Altmark

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFA_Olna_(A216)

HMS Sheffield as the Ajax

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Sheffield_(C24)

INS Delhi playing herself as HMS Achilles

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/INS_Delhi_(C74)

HMS Jamaica as the Exeter

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Jamaica_(44)

RFA Fort Duquesne as Tacoma (GF scuttling scene)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFA_Fort_Duquesne

A Ton-class minesweeper as the Urugay

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ton-class_minesweeper

HMS Birmingham as the Exeter and as the Graf Spee (select scenes only)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Birmingham_(C19)

HMS Battleaxe as a camera ship

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Battleaxe_(D118)

USS William R. Rush as a camera ship

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_William_R._Rush_(DD-714)

 

 

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DDG44_Vet Proficient

DDG44_Vet

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I didn’t think the Kriegsmarine had an UNREP capability this early in the war, thought they like most other navies hove to, used small boats for cargo transfer and used a bow to stern hose configuration for refueling?

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iDuckman Mentor

iDuckman

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I've never seen this flik.  It stars my waifu Salem playing Adm. Graf Spee.  The shots are wonderful.

I'll try to finish it tomorrow.

As for UNREP, notice how all the AA mounts that GS didn't have are fully manned even when not appropriate.  Accuracy not required.  Anyone notice which ship played the resupply ship? 

 

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I_cant_Swim_ Veteran

I_cant_Swim_

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15 hours ago, iDuckman said:

Anyone notice which ship played the resupply ship?

You mean the Altmark? Yeah, and the manned AA guns was a bit funny at the beginning... Special effects a la 1956.

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iDuckman Mentor

iDuckman

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Anyone notice what actresses are playing the Royal Navy and Commonwealth Dominion ships?

Update: Achilles and Cumberland as themselves.  Sheffield as Ajax, and Jamaica as Exeter.

 

 

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iDuckman Mentor

iDuckman

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That was okay.  They didn't mention that Langsdorff shot himself three days later.  Nor were the casualty figure mentioned.  But I have to say, the Germans come off much better than in most WW2 films.

 

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Admiral_Karasu Grand Master

Admiral_Karasu

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I've added links to a number of Wikipedia pages, for the battle, the movie, the Graf Spee, the USS Salem and a lot of others as well. These links are in the 'appropriate' threads. The ship links are in this thread, for instance.

 

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DDG44_Vet Proficient

DDG44_Vet

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I believe this film accurately portrays the early war tactics of these surface raiders and some of the u-boats to fight a gentleman’s war. They would stop a ship, allow the crew to disembark, pick them up, then sink the ship. The relatively friendly and obviously respectful way the crews treat each other in the movie reflects it. Once radio calls for help began to make that tactic far too dangerous the Germans shifted to unrestricted warfare of the kind seen in Greyhound. 

Edited by DDG44_Vet
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I_cant_Swim_ Veteran

I_cant_Swim_

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I think it's interesting how the hull number 139 was explained away.

139 is the Salem hull number (Graf Spee in film). I suppose the film studio was not allowed to cover up the number, in any case in the film Capt. Langsdorff holds up a book for Capt. Dove to see, and Dove says "Jane!" To which Langsdorff replies "Yes, Jane - a very useful publication". And yes, it is the annual reference book 'Janes Fighting Ships'. In it, a photograph and details of the USS Pensacola/ Pensacola class ships. Dove says: "So that's why you've got the number painted on your bows".

In fact, Pensacola had the hull number 24 (CA-24). I suppose the need to use Pensacola as a pretend target is because unlike Salem, she served in the war.

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iDuckman Mentor

iDuckman

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I've seen that or similar (possibly Drachinifel).  I don't think the flim did a very good job of making the tactics comprehensible.  It was all ship-board action.  Or for that matter describing the difference between CAs and CLs.  But that's the naval historian in me.

 

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Admiral_Karasu Grand Master

Admiral_Karasu

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3 minutes ago, iDuckman said:

I've seen that or similar (possibly Drachinifel).  I don't think the flim did a very good job of making the tactics comprehensible.  It was all ship-board action.  Or for that matter describing the difference between CAs and CLs.  But that's the naval historian in me.

 

I know Drachinifel has something on this, and there are probably a lot of others as well out there. Basically, it's good if you know how to get the details, I just posted something so that folks here could have some reference point because the movie may leave a lot of questions unanswered, though it does a pretty good job at pointing out some details as well as the general tactic of forcing the Graf Spee to divide it's main guns between two flanks.

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Admiral_Karasu Grand Master

Admiral_Karasu

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Does anyone have some thoughts about the mistakes both Harwood and Langsdorff were criticized for during and after the battle?

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  • Admiral_Karasu changed the title to The Battle of the River Plate - Battle Tactics, Ships and Armament

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