Why is the "Brawl" still misleadingly advertised by WG as "skill based" ?

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

Why is the "Brawl" still misleadingly advertised by WG as "skill based" when there are just 10-or-so victories needed to be "top" regardless of WinRate and number of games played in the "Brawl"?

 

And you actually end up with this:

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

[Nautic_Hunt]

Anyone that's sub 48% after that many battles should be restricted in tier and mode. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

Wasn't there something that was supposed to have been skill based?

[palestreamer]

I believe it is the skill rate in the current brawls, not your overall account win rate.(?)

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

1 minute ago, palestreamer said:

I believe it is the skill rate in the current brawls, not your overall account win rate.(?)

That is overall "Random Battles" WinRate (the only one possible to have)... but it gives proper picture...

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[Admiral_Karasu]

5 minutes ago, palestreamer said:

I believe it is the skill rate in the current brawls, not your overall account win rate.(?)

That's my recollection too, now that you mention it. I haven't played that mode because there's always too few ships in it to suit my purposes.

[thornzero]

I don't think it is misleading. I play a lot of brawls every week that they are available since the autumn and have kept an eye on potato alert [it's easier on my eyes than MMM but has pretty much the same data] for a few months now.

I think brawls takes the randoms stats as a measure of skill. What you are seeing is a plethora of players that either play few randoms or poorly or both.

The players that hide their stats are not taken into consideration for the team averages of wr or damage [on potato alert] or of wr and experience [on MMM]. Hidden stats mostly tell their own story nonetheless [mostly poor players will hide them with some exceptions].

You will notice the team averages are fairly close within a few points at most. <--- This is what I think they are going for, averages for the teams that are closer.

There are a bunch of reasons to play brawls especially for newer players but not exclusively:

No stats.

Can play higher tier ships with less trouble / toxicity / etc.

You can save resources like signals for more competitive modes because the matches are finished quickly: usually.

The rewards are quite good. For about 2 full days playing you can get over 2m credits, 1ok coal, 8ok cexp and some signals and boosters on TOP of match rewards.

IF you run 21 point captains [depending on your fleet] you can bank cexp quite quickly especially if you play well. Great for training captains.

Some newer people are grinding upgrades in this mode on new ships. You can tell if you know their hp pool if they are grinding or not using SE.

You can complete the missions over an entire week if not a week-end brawl obviously.

The matches are quite fun and I think they help future randoms performance. <-- This is why I play so much brawls and the rewards.

The team with the better wr or average damage is not exactly always the winner either. 

But the key here is the average matchmaking values are usually 1-3 points sometimes 5. I saw much better players this T6 brawl than usual. I average about 5o% win so 31 wins requires 6o matches, 4o wins requires 8o matches and so forth. Except for the few times I struggle especially with maybe the not greatest ship choice. In T1o I could not get Daring to work and lost often but with Gearing had little to no problem.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

  

2 minutes ago, thornzero said:

I don't think it is misleading. I play a lot of brawls every week that they are available since the autumn and have kept an eye on potato alert [it's easier on my eyes than MMM but has pretty much the same data] for a few months now.

I think brawls takes the randoms stats as a measure of skill. What you are seeing is a plethora of players that either play few randoms or poorly or both.

The players that hide their stats are not taken into consideration for the team averages of wr or damage [on potato alert] or of wr and experience [on MMM]. Hidden stats mostly tell their own story nonetheless [mostly poor players will hide them with some exceptions].

You will notice the team averages are fairly close within a few points at most. <--- This is what I think they are going for, averages for the teams that are closer.

There are a bunch of reasons to play brawls especially for newer players but not exclusively:

No stats.

Can play higher tier ships with less trouble / toxicity / etc.

You can save resources like signals for more competitive modes because the matches are finished quickly: usually.

The rewards are quite good. For about 2 full days playing you can get over 2m credits, 1ok coal, 8ok cexp and some signals and boosters on TOP of match rewards.

IF you run 21 point captains [depending on your fleet] you can bank cexp quite quickly especially if you play well. Great for training captains.

Some newer people are grinding upgrades in this mode on new ships. You can tell if you know their hp pool if they are grinding or not using SE.

You can complete the missions over an entire week if not a week-end brawl obviously.

The matches are quite fun and I think they help future randoms performance. <-- This is why I play so much brawls and the rewards.

The team with the better wr or average damage is not exactly always the winner either. 

But the key here is the average matchmaking values are usually 1-3 points sometimes 5. I saw much better players this T6 brawl than usual. I average about 5o% win so 31 wins requires 6o matches, 4o wins requires 8o matches and so forth. Except for the few times I struggle especially with maybe the not greatest ship choice. In T1o I could not get Daring to work and lost often but with Gearing had little to no problem.

I am sorry but not... WG admitted that just around 10 victories in "Brawl" is enough for player to be "skilled"...nothing else is used... no other measurement...
😞

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[thornzero]

7 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

  

I am sorry but not... WG admitted that just around 10 victories in "Brawl" is enough for player to be "skilled"...nothing else is used... no other measurement...
😞

 

Leo "Apollo11"

Where is that published?

 

Also I think you really need to consider why and who are playing brawls.

 

cheers

[Nevermore135]

13 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

  

I am sorry but not... WG admitted that just around 10 victories in "Brawl" is enough for player to be "skilled"...nothing else is used... no other measurement...
😞

 

Leo "Apollo11"

^This. The “skill-based” MM used in brawls simply uses the total number of wins in that brawl session, regardless of the number of battles played. It’s complete garbage and to claim it is based on skill is definitely misleading.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

6 minutes ago, thornzero said:

Where is that published?

 

Also I think you really need to consider why and who are playing brawls.

 

cheers

Old Forum... I asked... 😞

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[thornzero]

Fair enough but there is no unusual anomaly in the average wr or damage in the matchmaker. This remains unexplained. 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

Why is advertising misleading?

Because misleading advertising is not illegal (enough).

Edited March 27 by Daniel_Allan_Clark

[Admiral_Karasu]

29 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

Old Forum... I asked... 😞

 

Leo "Apollo11"

Meanwhile in Oblivion...

[Type_93]

The brawls match players on how many wins they have in the current brawl session. 

[thornzero]

35 minutes ago, Type_93 said:

The brawls match players on how many wins they have in the current brawl session. 

So every Monday that there is brawls everyone starts at zero. Then once you achieve 1o wins you are matched with people that achieve 1o wins. So there is no skill match making whatsoever. Where is this published? Probably in the same disappeared forum.

[Admiral_Karasu]

15 minutes ago, thornzero said:

So every Monday that there is brawls everyone starts at zero. Then once you achieve 1o wins you are matched with people that achieve 1o wins. So there is no skill match making whatsoever. Where is this published? Probably in the same disappeared forum.

Maybe on one of those mysterious patent scrolls that WG has hidden in some arcane vault of theirs.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

6 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Maybe on one of those mysterious patent scrolls that WG has hidden in some arcane vault of theirs.

I am afaraid not... 😞

BTW, I had Brawl where we won (I carried and had 1300 BaseXP).

The submarine (sic!) in our team survived the whole match and had 96 BaseXP... yes... submarine... 96 BaseXP in winning team... so no... no skill bases MM in Brawl...

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[Type_93]

31 minutes ago, thornzero said:

So every Monday that there is brawls everyone starts at zero. Then once you achieve 1o wins you are matched with people that achieve 1o wins. So there is no skill match making whatsoever. Where is this published? Probably in the same disappeared forum.

Exactly. No skill like PR or overall WR. Just how you do in each brawls session. You have to dig thru the discord threads, or just ask one of the WG mods like Ashkance or Boogzy. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

10 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

I am afaraid not... 😞

BTW, I had Brawl where we won (I carried and had 1300 BaseXP).

The submarine (sic!) in our team survived the whole match and had 96 BaseXP... yes... submarine... 96 BaseXP in winning team... so no... no skill bases MM in Brawl...

 

Leo "Apollo11"

Perhaps it includes survival skills?

[Wolfswetpaws]

34 minutes ago, thornzero said:

So every Monday that there is brawls everyone starts at zero. Then once you achieve 1o wins you are matched with people that achieve 1o wins. So there is no skill match making whatsoever. Where is this published? Probably in the same disappeared forum.

I think that a win or a loss does count towards one's "skill rating", even if it is simplistic and is a statistic derived from playing on a team.
One versus One brawls mode could eliminate the ambiguity of having a team carrying or hindering a player.

[Asym]

36 minutes ago, thornzero said:

So every Monday that there is brawls everyone starts at zero. Then once you achieve 1o wins you are matched with people that achieve 1o wins. So there is no skill match making whatsoever. Where is this published? Probably in the same disappeared forum.

Guys, WoWs does not have a skill based match maker....  Think for a second:  if they did, and we are a Left Skewed population, how in the heck would we ever get a game to screen in less than 5 to 10 minutes...???  We are not a Random Distribution of skill population as a mature game; that is required, if you do not have a hard skill metric (which, win rate is not because it is a "group metric not an individual metric...) it take a long time to balance a match.....

Good grief mates, Brawls are as hosed as Randoms and Clan Battles.....

What is disturbing, is that we have the data in this game to create a "Combat Effectiveness (CE)" metric.... 

The game just doesn't have the revenue to redesign the existing MM to a SBMM....  Nor, would the elite players like it at all - because, it measure what "you do" - not what "we" won....  In the demo's I've seen, elite players recruited to test CE in new games simply quit.....  You can't exploit CE by divisioning.  Can't exploit CE with gimmicks.  Can't not participate if hiding and sniping is the exploit...  CE considers not just accuracy.......it calculates "participation value..."....situational awareness (positioning)...et al....   Take as an example,  the last ship standing in a Random match on one side fighting against 2 Radar cruisers and a CV...  An that CPT, out smarts them for several minutes and kills a Cruiser.... That is an "effective CPT in a losing battle" and the metric calculates <<< that effort in the participation category......even when, the game was lost !!!!  CE is a first person, bottom line up front, active voice, clear and concise metric....  All of your choices measures "you" and the effectiveness of your participation.

See the difference between win rate (we) and CE (I).....????  The Military used a form of CE in it's SIMS and "games;"......because, there are outright killers that end up on losing teams if RNG is the basis of the SIM....  And, those few are identified and trained to train....  Some have the "Knack" and most don't......  The "Knack" are people whom thrive in asymmetrical environments.....and, think differently.   And that, is why elite gamers quit CE testing.....they exploit and can't even see the battlespace....

Lecture over:  AVG(s) 401 is dismissed....

Edited March 27 by Asym

[thornzero]

14 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

I am afaraid not... 😞

BTW, I had Brawl where we won (I carried and had 1300 BaseXP).

The submarine (sic!) in our team survived the whole match and had 96 BaseXP... yes... submarine... 96 BaseXP in winning team... so no... no skill bases MM in Brawl...

 

Leo "Apollo11"

So for a 56%+ player in randoms it really begs the question; Why are you playing brawls? It's not for the experience. Why torture yourself when there are other modes of play?

Subs are very low performing in brawls and in my opinion unsuitable for the mode. I really haven't seen anything stellar with sub performance. CVs have a high impact but I think they too are unsuitable for the mode and prefer they not be included but that is a different topic.

That is one match out of 4o/8o/1oo. One match is not a sample.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

57 minutes ago, thornzero said:

So for a 56%+ player in randoms it really begs the question; Why are you playing brawls? It's not for the experience. Why torture yourself when there are other modes of play?

Subs are very low performing in brawls and in my opinion unsuitable for the mode. I really haven't seen anything stellar with sub performance. CVs have a high impact but I think they too are unsuitable for the mode and prefer they not be included but that is a different topic.

That is one match out of 4o/8o/1oo. One match is not a sample.

I stopped playing Random battles several years ago.

I only play Ranked, Brawls and CoOp.

Brawl last around 5 minutes.

If you are good 1.000+ BaseXP is well within limits (and in current Brawl 1.400 BaseXP is reachable with exceptional game).

So... efficiency... best bang for the buck...

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[thornzero]

25 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

So... efficiency... best bang for the buck...

Leo "Apollo11"

Yes, rewards: quick, fast, and in a hurry.

Kind of makes the b.s. match maker worth the trouble.