Heavy Protected Armored Cruisers

[kriegerfaust]

• Orlando class first class armoured cruiser, 5,600 tons, 2×9.2-inch, 10×6-inch
• Blake class first class protected cruiser, 9,150 tons, 2 × 9.2-inch, 10 × 6-inch
• Edgar class first class protected cruiser, 7,700 tons, 2× 9.2-inch, 10×6-inch
• Powerful class first class protected cruiser, 14,200 tons, 2×9.2-inch, 12× 6-inch
• Cressy class first class armoured cruiser, 12,000 tons, 2×9.2-inch, 12×6-in
• Drake class first class armoured cruiser, 14,150 tons, 2× 9.2-inch, 16×-6-inch
•  
• Devonshire class first class armoured cruiser, 10,850 tons, 4× 7.5-inch, 6× 6-inch
  • Duke of Edinburgh class 13,550 tons, 6× 9.2-inch, 10× 6-inch
  • Warrior class 13,550 tons, 6x 9.2-in, 4x 7.5-in
• Minotaur class first class armoured cruiser, 14,600 tons, 4× 9.2-inch, 10× 7.5-inch
•  

• (ACR-2) New York (1893) – Spanish–American War, later Saratoga, WW1 as Rochester, later CA-2
• (ACR-3) Brooklyn (1896) – Spanish–American War, later CA-3
• Pennsylvania class

SMS Fürst Bismarck

SMS Prinz Heinrich

 Prinz Adalbert-class cruiser

Roon-class cruiser

Scharnhorst-class cruiser

SMS Blücher

Amiral Charner class

Léon Gambetta class

Edgar Quinet class

We all know the low-level protected cruisers gun's up and down the length of both sides maybe one turret front and back.  Guns are light 5 to 6 inches with bad arcs of fire and maybe a few torpedoes.  Low level of hit points with almost no armor bad turn rate, a cruiser class that peaks early.  What if we had larger ships with some larger guns. Probably a bad idea but could be fun a ship with a lot of fast firing short-ranged guns with a few heavy hitters or more.  Could be a fun start to a new line at least for the UK or maybe just some oddball ships to fill the rank, maybe heavily refitted or stock, still be polite but feel free to tell me how bad my idea is.  

[invicta2012]

The RN ones are the missing Tiers in the RN CA line (I wouldn't use Minotaur due to her lack of armour), but the County class, Duke of Edinburgh and Warrior would be fine at Tiers II, III and IV.  A definite yes to original Scharn/Gneis and especially the Blucher - which could work work just fine at Tier V.

The French ones are nuts and not too impressive if Jurien is anything to go by; the Italian ones (San Giorgio and Pisa class) very notable and a sound design, there are several Russian and Japanese examples,  and there's also one-offs like the Swedish Fylgia.

Their main problems in WoWs, though, are the same as they had in reality - for defence they have neither great armour or great speed, they have a main battery with fewer, lighter guns than a Battlecruiser, only a few have torpedoes;  their potency relies too much on secondary RNG. 

[pepe_trueno]

would be nice to have armored cruisers. past t6 they will likely be all fantasy or receive the jagger "treatment" but  they have a unique playstyle and will actually add variety to the game.

 

i am surprised you didn't put the rurik in there.

Displacement: 15,430 t

Speed: 21 knots 

Armament: 4 × 254 mm  guns

                    8 × 203 mm guns

                   20 × 120 mm guns

                     4 × 47 mm  guns

                     2 × 457 mm torpedo tubes

Armor: Belt: 76–152 mm 

            Turrets 203 mm 

            Barbettes: 180 mm

            Deck: 25 to 38 mm 

           Casemates: 76 mm

Conning tower: 203 mm

 

all in all there is material to make historical armored cruisers up to t5/t6, From there on they will keep the basic concept of thick armor and big secondary guns in exchange of speed and few main guns with the diference that the big secondary guns become big dual purpouse guns.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

WG doesn't like them because of the mixed 9.2 inch and 7.5 inch main armament.

[pepe_trueno]

16 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

The RN ones are the missing Tiers in the RN CA line (I wouldn't use Minotaur due to her lack of armour), but the County class, Duke of Edinburgh and Warrior would be fine at Tiers II, III and IV.  A definite yes to original Scharn/Gneis and especially the Blucher - which could work work just fine at Tier V.

The French ones are nuts and not too impressive if Jurien is anything to go by; the Italian ones (San Giorgio and Pisa class) very notable and a sound design, there are several Russian and Japanese examples,  and there's also one-offs like the Swedish Fylgia.

Their main problems in WoWs, though, are the same as they had in reality - for defence they have neither great armour or great speed, they have a main battery with fewer, lighter guns than a Battlecruiser, only a few have torpedoes;  their potency relies too much on secondary RNG. 

it all depends on the stats, The game is full of ships that got buffed beyond any credibility to fit the tier they are in.  Few main guns can be compensated with better accuracy and low speed with high concealment.

wows defence does not work like real life defence, give them a bow that can't be overmatched and a bare minimum side and deck armor and as long as you dont go around showing broadside that is all the armor you will ever need in here.

[kriegerfaust]

Rurik a fine looking ship thank you for adding her

[invicta2012]

6 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

WG doesn't like them because of the mixed 9.2 inch and 7.5 inch main armament.

That certainly used to be the case, yes. Post Atlantico, I'm not so sure. To be effective, though, those secondaries would need decent range and WG doesn't seem keen to give that to lower tier ships. 

 

6 hours ago, pepe_trueno said:

it all depends on the stats, The game is full of ships that got buffed beyond any credibility to fit the tier they are in.  Few main guns can be compensated with better accuracy and low speed with high concealment.

wows defence does not work like real life defence, give them a bow that can't be overmatched and a bare minimum side and deck armor and as long as you dont go around showing broadside that is all the armor you will ever need in here.

They can be made more sturdy, yes. Some of them were quite sturdy - as you can see on the illustration (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrior-class_cruiser) the Warrior Class had a 6 inch belt, tapering to 4 inches at the bow, which would bounce a fair bit. But that still leaves you without much to use in reply. BBs will outclass you in DPM, faster cruisers will run or charge you with torps, and you can't handle DDs at all. You might get lucky and find a map which allows you to use cover (these older ships tend to have pretty loopy gun arcs) but that's quite passive, and I suspect it's why we've not seen these ships in-game.

[Project45_Opytny]

7 hours ago, pepe_trueno said:

would be nice to have armored cruisers. past t6 they will likely be all fantasy or receive the jagger "treatment" but  they have a unique playstyle and will actually add variety to the game.

 

i am surprised you didn't put the rurik in there.

Displacement: 15,430 t

Speed: 21 knots 

Armament: 4 × 254 mm  guns

                    8 × 203 mm guns

                   20 × 120 mm guns

                     4 × 47 mm  guns

                     2 × 457 mm torpedo tubes

Armor: Belt: 76–152 mm 

            Turrets 203 mm 

            Barbettes: 180 mm

            Deck: 25 to 38 mm 

           Casemates: 76 mm

Conning tower: 203 mm

 

all in all there is material to make historical armored cruisers up to t5/t6, From there on they will keep the basic concept of thick armor and big secondary guns in exchange of speed and few main guns with the diference that the big secondary guns become big dual purpouse guns.

As long as you are willing to accept that they are "spiritual" successors of ACRs while not strictly following the "downsized pre-dreadnought" stereotype, "brawling second-class capital ships" have already been in the game in the form of Napoli, Admiral Schroeder and Michelangelo.

And speed is one key point in making a brawler viable.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

4 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

That certainly used to be the case, yes. Post Atlantico, I'm not so sure.

Except that Atlantico's primary armament is 15 inch, which distances it quite significantly from the 9.2 inch secondaries. The British armoured cruisers' gun mix is just too close, and if you make the 7.5's the secondary armament then the "main" guns are too few in number.

4 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

But that still leaves you without much to use in reply. BBs will outclass you in DPM, faster cruisers will run or charge you with torps, and you can't handle DDs at all. You might get lucky and find a map which allows you to use cover (these older ships tend to have pretty loopy gun arcs) but that's quite passive, and I suspect it's why we've not seen these ships in-game.

Not a bad analysis.

[Project45_Opytny]

2 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Except that Atlantico's primary armament is 15 inch, which distances it quite significantly from the 9.2 inch secondaries. The British armoured cruisers' gun mix is just too close, and if you make the 7.5's the secondary armament then the "main" guns are too few in number.

For a few cases (Tachibana, Kawachi) WG has gone the easy path by substituting the largest guns for the same model of the largest secondaries.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

IMO, the only reason we don't see these ships in game is because WG wants to only focus on tiers 8-11, with some minor stuff in tiers 6-8 for the newer players...

...all while complaining that they are "running out of content"...

Despite refusing to acknowledge that their choice of tier focus means they are ignoring the most content rich portion of the game era.

Want concrete examples of WG development incompetence? Here's a great example.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

4 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

IMO, the only reason we don't see these ships in game is because WG wants to only focus on tiers 8-11, with some minor stuff in tiers 6-8 for the newer players...

...all while complaining that they are "running out of content"...

Despite refusing to acknowledge that their choice of tier focus means they are ignoring the most content rich portion of the game era.

Want concrete examples of WG development incompetence? Here's a great example.

Then why don't you go work for them, rise through the ranks, and sort them out, since you seem to have all the answers?

[invicta2012]

7 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Except that Atlantico's primary armament is 15 inch, which distances it quite significantly from the 9.2 inch secondaries. The British armoured cruisers' gun mix is just too close, and if you make the 7.5's the secondary armament then the "main" guns are too few in number.

That's why I'm suggesting stopping at Warrior, which has 6 x 9.2 inch (3 available for dead ahead fire, which is OK, given a heavy weight of shell for a cruiser gun) and 4 x 1 7.5 inch on the beam. Those secondaries are going to land the occasional haymaker, but they're not the main attraction.  Duke of Edinburgh has 6 inch secondaries which are fine for Tier III, and if Devonshire's mix of 7.5 main / 6 inch secondaries isn't acceptable then the County/Monmouth class is a uniform 6 inch battery.

Edited March 28 by invicta2012

[pepe_trueno]

On 3/28/2024 at 5:17 AM, Project45_Opytny said:

As long as you are willing to accept that they are "spiritual" successors of ACRs while not strictly following the "downsized pre-dreadnought" stereotype, "brawling second-class capital ships" have already been in the game in the form of Napoli, Admiral Schroeder and Michelangelo.

And speed is one key point in making a brawler viable.

in this game what makes a ship a good brawler is its ability to get within effective range as well as its ability stay alive in a close fight.

atlantico is slow but due to a very small gap between secondary guns and its concealment coupled with its good armor and firing angles it can brawl effectively.