Any video tutorials on reading Sub Pings?

[SoshiSone]

I've tried the training room and it didn't satisfy.  Got a little bit of information, but I've watched subs in battle and it doesn't always comport with what I found in training.  So....any vids out there explaining the read?

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

Outside of the short sequence in the last update video its pretty much just a direction movement animation. But its long been debated how close these animations are to the actual sub and we also have subs like 4501 which is a popular one at T10 since it has a heal, which gimmick upon sale was that the ping was even more misleading than normal subs (ping shown in an even greater area around the sub). So its even a selling point for WG to mislead any anti sub warfare.

 

[SunkCostFallacy]

There's a mod called "Submarine Pingers on Minimap" which I find useful. It's available in Aslain's modpack ... I don't know if it's available in the WG version, such as it is.

It basically places a red dot on your minimap wherever a subs ping marker shows up. It's still wildly inaccurate, but multiple pings from the same sub will show you the direction that it's moving in. I find this useful because there are times that bot subs in COOP like to troll you by pinging even when they can't fire their torps at you.

Even if you don't play COOP, it has value because I frequently find myself being pinged when I'm looking in another direction and by the time I look for the marker it's gone.

You might consider giving it a try.

[Wolfswetpaws]

9 hours ago, SoshiSone said:

I've tried the training room and it didn't satisfy.  Got a little bit of information, but I've watched subs in battle and it doesn't always comport with what I found in training.  So....any vids out there explaining the read?

Before the recent changes to submarine ping visuals, I would try to limit my use of pings to just one per attack.
The reasoning was that two pings in a short span of time would reveal my direction of travel.

With the new visuals, my direction of travel (as a Submarine) is immediately indicated.
A savvy and observant player will have knowledge of which sumbarine I'm playing, and its capabilities, from the information provided via the Team Roster list, merely by hovering their mouse over my ship.
Thus, they'll know my top-speed(s) and my direction of travel from the new ping indicator, and can aim their Depthcharge-airstrikes accordingly.
So, now what?  

Well, essentially "the same as before", but in a different sequence, for me.
Before, I'd launch torpedoes, then turn the submarine, and then ping the target.
By the time the Depthcharge-airstrikes arrived, I'd be nowhere near where my ping originated from.
Nowadays ...
I'll launch torpedoes, then ping, and then turn to port or starboard.  My ping indicated that I'm heading towards the target, but I've altered course immediately after sending my one ping.
The ping visual is now more accurate and is directly over my submarine, so I have to use that to my advantage as best as I can.

If I have to use two pings, I'm in a desperate situation and am trying to make the torpedoes hit a target in a time sensitive situation.
 

Edited March 20 by Wolfswetpaws

[Andrewbassg]

10 hours ago, SoshiSone said:

I've tried the training room

With subs?....hmmm....... I couldn't take a sub in. Wasn't possible, then it was and  now again not possible.....

[Wolfswetpaws]

3 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

With subs?....hmmm....... I couldn't take a sub in. Wasn't possible, then it was and  now again not possible.....

Can the 'Bots be Submarines, in the training room?

[Andrewbassg]

6 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Can the 'Bots be Submarines, in the training room?

Idk, never tried....

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 minute ago, Andrewbassg said:

Idk, never tried....

Well, it is somewhat important, considering that @SoshiSone is training to hit Submarines, eh?  😉 

[Justin_Simpleton]

11 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Can the 'Bots be Submarines, in the training room?

Yes.  I was experimenting in the training room on hitting bot subs with HE vs AP.  Ramming is more effective.

[ArIskandir]

16 hours ago, SoshiSone said:

I've tried the training room and it didn't satisfy.  Got a little bit of information, but I've watched subs in battle and it doesn't always comport with what I found in training.  So....any vids out there explaining the read?

No video and my info is not updated, not sure if it has changed. 

 

The ping indicator is spawned over the line along the Submarine lenght, up to certain distance from the Sub. It used to be 2 Km but iirc they shortened it to 1 or 1.5km. Not really sure about the current "deviation" range.

On the graphic above, it means the Ping indicator can spawn at any point of the red line (it's lenght would be the "deviation" range).

Now, the Ping indicator will always be oriented in the ping direction, regardless the actual Submarine alignment.

So, even if the "deviation" is only 1 Km, it's not very useful info as you get no indication about the actual bearing of the Sub. Multiple pings can provide you a rough estimate plot but it isn't solid intel to reliably deliver Airstrikes. Most of the time I find it more useful for aiming my Airstrikes to make an educated guess on the Submarine's intentions than relaying on the marker's plot.

My advice is shoot the darn marker with your guns, the time-to-target is much shorter and you have a far better chance to hit the Sub (assuming it's operating at periscope depth). Otoh the ping marker is more useful to deliver on-point Depth Charge attacks. 

Edited March 20 by ArIskandir

[clammboy]

I’m not really sure what people are talking about but I have seen nothing that tells me the immediate  direction a sub is going after it’s pinged. Am I missing something because I have the mini-map ping and I still have no idea which way a sub is going it’s all an educated guess for me which is usually wrong. 

[SoshiSone]

If I feel like it, I'll go get some pics from training room.

If memory serves me, you can not only tell the direction based on the new ping annimation, but you can also get feedback on the direction the sub is pointing.  You can tell if it's a front ping or a rear ping...or a side ping.

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, ArIskandir said:

No video and my info is not updated, not sure if it has changed. 

 

The ping indicator is spawned over the line along the Submarine lenght, up to certain distance from the Sub. It used to be 2 Km but iirc they shortened it to 1 or 1.5km. Not really sure about the current "deviation" range.

On the graphic above, it means the Ping indicator can spawn at any point of the red line (it's lenght would be the "deviation" range).

Now, the Ping indicator will always be oriented in the ping direction, regardless the actual Submarine alignment.

So, even if the "deviation" is only 1 Km, it's not very useful info as you get no indication about the actual bearing of the Sub. Multiple pings can provide you a rough estimate plot but it isn't solid intel to reliably deliver Airstrikes. Most of the time I find it more useful for aiming my Airstrikes to make an educated guess on the Submarine's intentions than relaying on the marker's plot.

My advice is shoot the darn marker with your guns, the time-to-target is much shorter and you have a far better chance to hit the Sub (assuming it's operating at periscope depth). Otoh the ping marker is more useful to deliver on-point Depth Charge attacks. 

That's the old ping visuals.  As you and I have previously discussed with Ahskance and others in the old forum.

There are new visuals, now.  Skip to the 1 minute 7 seconds time-stamp.

Changes to Submarines in Update 13.2

 

[ArIskandir]

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

That's the old ping visuals.  As you and I have previously discussed with Ahskance and others in the old forum.

There are new visuals, now.  Skip to the 1 minute 7 seconds time-stamp.

Changes to Submarines in Update 13.2

 

For the look of it, the ping marker now appears to be aligned to the Sub lenght instead of the ping... which is as it should had always been, it's common sense. 
 

Edited March 20 by ArIskandir

[Andrewbassg]

8 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Well, it is somewhat important, considering that @SoshiSone is training to hit Submarines, eh?  😉 

Soo....there are maps which simply don't allow subs in, no matter the side.

 

8 hours ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

  Ramming is more effective.

 

[SoshiSone]

9 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Can the 'Bots be Submarines, in the training room?

Yes bots can be subs I believe.  But to answer my question, i do the following...

I go training as the sub.  Ping around the map in vairous directions and speeds and observe the ping animation.  Afterwards, I can run the replay with vairous views and bandicam it.

 

[SoshiSone]

Here's an in-game sub ping example.

Note that the sub's ping direction is right to left based on the crescent.  Furthermore, the sub is moving kinda fast based on the number of crescents displayed.  But which direction is the sub moving?  Right to left in the direction of the ping or left to right running away?

The animation is key here.  It happens fast so gotta catch it.  Note the crescents roll up (go away) from left to right (YT time tag 0:16).  This  roll up direction tells you which direction the sub is moving.  In this case, the roll up is left to right.  Hence, it's a trailing ping from a sub running away.

I calculate a lead distance in the left to right direction from the crescent and designate an ASW drop (YT time tag 0:18)..and get splash damage (YT time tag 0:31).  Although I didn't notice during the battle, it looks like I should have dropped it a wee bit longer.  In the moment it looked good, but in replay shows I was a bit short of the sub's retreating vector.  Still, splash damage is good.

  

Edited March 21 by SoshiSone

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

On 3/20/2024 at 10:54 AM, SunkCostFallacy said:

There's a mod called "Submarine Pingers on Minimap" which I find useful. It's available in Aslain's modpack ... I don't know if it's available in the WG version, such as it is.

This is actually quite good, since the markers on the surface disappears superfast sometimes, then you can use the markers to guesstimate a little.

18 hours ago, SoshiSone said:

If memory serves me, you can not only tell the direction based on the new ping annimation, but you can also get feedback on the direction the sub is pointing.  You can tell if it's a front ping or a rear ping...or a side ping.

 

10 hours ago, SoshiSone said:

Here's an in-game sub ping example.

Note that the sub's ping direction is right to left based on the crescent.  Furthermore, the sub is moving kinda fast based on the number of crescents displayed.  But which direction is the sub moving?  Right to left in the direction of the ping or left to right running away?

The animation is key here.  It happens fast so gotta catch it.  Note the crescents roll up (go away) from left to right (YT time tag 0:16).  This  roll up direction tells you which direction the sub is moving.  In this case, the roll up is left to right.  Hence, it's a trailing ping from a sub running away.

I calculate a lead distance in the left to right direction from the crescent and designate an ASW drop (YT time tag 0:18)..and get splash damage (YT time tag 0:31).  Although I didn't notice during the battle, it looks like I should have dropped it a wee bit longer.  In the moment it looked good, but in replay shows I was a bit short of the sub's retreating vector.  Still, splash damage is good.

  

Unfortunately I think this is very misleading since the fans are going one direction but the animation is another. Im not sure if the fans direction show where the bow of the sub is pointing or just the direction of the ping sent out?! The animation seems to show the sub is moving backwards....? 

I think it would be much better to just show the direction the sub is heading no matter if hes going forwards or reversing. WG always tend to do this intentional or not.

For example, how many of the playerbase gets this 100%? I see myself as a above average player and im a bit confused about this new animations. I also seen both playing subs and pinging and also being on the receiving end of pings that subs that ping mid turn get a very "smudged out" fan that is very hard to tell which direction he is turning to, anyone else experienced this?

Edited March 21 by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube

[SoshiSone]

2 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

The animation seems to show the sub is moving backwards....? 

The crescents show the direction of the PING.  The animation shows the direction the sub is moving.  Whether backwards (reverse) or forward (in retreat) is moot as the direction of movement is the same.  Well, not totally moot.   I don't think the sub can reverse at the speed indicated by the number of crescents and therefore concluded the sub was pinging (right to left wrt to my view)) off the sub's stern while retreating left to right.

This is why I was looking for a tutorial.  There is a lot of information in that ping animation.  The crescents even merge diffirently when the ping is at an angle other than directly forward or directly stern.  So you not only get a left or right understanding, but once you know how to read it, you can read the sub's velocity bearing relative to the ping. 

For example, take a ping 45 degrees off the stern for a sub travelling in forward direction.  You can deduce, from the crescents and animation, that the sub is moving 45 degrees to the ping.  This is extremely good data to plan your drops.  In fact, two pings will not only show degrees off but the DIFFERENCE in degrees off....you can actually read the curve the sub is following while pinging.  Now WHERE'S THAT TUTORIAL!!!!  

[ArIskandir]

1 hour ago, SoshiSone said:

Now WHERE'S THAT TUTORIAL!!!!  

Very likely below the tutorial on torpedo homing... 

(afaik there were never an official statement about the torpedo homing and cutting off on the interception point rather then the ship hull)

[SoshiSone]

3 hours ago, ArIskandir said:

Very likely below the tutorial on torpedo homing... 

(afaik there were never an official statement about the torpedo homing and cutting off on the interception point rather then the ship hull)

That's why we have Arlskandir...he is supposed to put that tutorial together for us...no...wait...

[MnemonScarlet]

On 3/20/2024 at 2:55 PM, ArIskandir said:

The ping indicator is spawned over the line along the Submarine lenght, up to certain distance from the Sub. It used to be 2 Km but iirc they shortened it to 1 or 1.5km. Not really sure about the current "deviation" range.

It's 400 meters with the latest patch, supposedly. So it's a lot more effective to use for the ASW planes, rather than more as a 'the sub is in this general area, get out' indicator.

[ArIskandir]

4 minutes ago, MnemonScarlet said:

It's 400 meters with the latest patch, supposedly. So it's a lot more effective to use for the ASW planes, rather than more as a 'the sub is in this general area, get out' indicator.

Lol, wow... How things change... 

It's almost like if some of us called for a similar range over 2 years ago... 

Old Forum knows,...

[MnemonScarlet]

23 minutes ago, ArIskandir said:

Lol, wow... How things change... 

It's almost like if some of us called for a similar range over 2 years ago... 

Old Forum knows,...

Yeah, the ranges they defaulted to with the indicator were way too generous, after the shock of them putting it right on the sub and the sub just being blasted for constantly pinging people. I had actually forgotten they did 2km for awhile, that must have been truly useless.

If they did bring back more comprehensive sub on sub PVP, they'd have to reduce the shotgun nerf they did. I can only imagine those damage dropoffs for the very short ranges makes subs trying to torp each other feel like using nerf bats.

[SoshiSone]

In a way, the ping as it is now is somewhat of a parallel between ASW targeting and gunfire targeting.  With gunfire there is a bit of a read (direction of target, speed of target, and turning rate of target) along with a guess (which way will they turn during the shell time of flight). With the ASW there is a bit of a read (direction of target determined by the ping animation, speed of target by ping animation, and turning rate of target by ping animation) along with a guess (which why will they turn during ASW time of flight).

The only slight vairation is two pings are required for the turn vector which is balanced by the area fire nature of the ASW drops all integrated together in the drop guess.