Yet another problem with sub implementation

[Andrewbassg]

 

As you can see, both the sub ping reveal and the spotted sub reveal are both white and at close ranges, under certain circumstances, are simply indistinguishable. Being zoomed in is even worse, especially if one is circling between zoom in/out. The eye needs a bit of time to adapt even without this distraction, thus  creates a veritable confusion, as to where to aim.

Well.......

 

Edited March 16 by Andrewbassg

[Wolfswetpaws]

 

😉 

[meatgrindr]

14 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

 

😉

Ruuude!  Were you not just complimented for being a gentleman?😀

[Andrewbassg]

14 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

 

😉

 

if I could.....

22 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

 

As you can see, both the sub ping reveal and the spotted sub reveal are both white and at close ranges, under certain circumstances, are simply indistinguishable. Being zoomed in is even worse, especially if one is circling between zoom in/out. The eye needs a bit of time to adapt even without this distraction, thus  creates a veritable confusion, as to where to aim.

Well.......

 

 ....I surely would.......

Btw that's from a song

 

But ofc you meant that for Wedgie, right?  

[Verytis]

26 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

especially if one is circling between zoom in/out.

idk what this part means.

Should you not be zoomed in for a clearer view?

[Andrewbassg]

1 minute ago, Verytis said:

idk what this part means.

 

Pressing shift? Repeatedly? Coz you need to be aware of..... surroundings?

 

3 minutes ago, Verytis said:

Should you not be zoomed in for a clearer view?

In this case. But how about a different situation, like being solo against the suckmarine and someone else?

Btw that's from a replay.

[Verytis]

5 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Pressing shift? Repeatedly? Coz you need to be aware of..... surroundings?

You shouldn't need to press shift.

You can hold down right click to go into "free view", it'll snap back into your current aim when you let go.

That way you don't reset your aim every time you look at your surroundings.

[Andrewbassg]

12 minutes ago, Verytis said:

You shouldn't need to press shift.

You can hold down right click to go into "free view", it'll snap back into your current aim when you let go.

 

And that doesn't have the same effect on the eye? .And actually....... its even worse, coz it will jump around.

 

14 minutes ago, Verytis said:

That way you don't reset your aim every time you look at your surroundings.

That's a good point, however there is also, ya know, target selection.

Look, we can do the back and forth,  but in the end.... it is a legit distraction and confusion generating factor, nonetheless.

[Verytis]

13 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

And that doesn't have the same effect on the eye? .And actually....... its even worse, coz it will jump around.

 

That's a good point, however there is also, ya know, target selection.

Look, we can do the back and forth,  but in the end.... it is a legit distraction and confusion generating factor, nonetheless.

No it doesn't have the same effect on my eyes.

Free view is great for separating the "targeting" view and "general observations" view, without messing up the camera for each other.

It lets me check my surroundings while keeping my guns and aim on target. This saves me the troubling of finding my current target again.

In fact, if they don't change course, I can actually stay in free view and still hit them.

 

If you identified a new target, you exit free view and repeat your camera motion with your actual aim.

If you're disoriented, use the minimap for that instead. Although I'd argue yours is perhaps too cluttered by the oversized font.

 

You know your setup best, but I seriously recommend trying free view.

[Andrewbassg]

25 minutes ago, Verytis said:

No it doesn't have the same effect on my eyes.

Free view is great for separating the "targeting" view and "general observations" view, without messing up the camera for each other.

It lets me check my surroundings while keeping my guns and aim on target. This saves me the troubling of finding my current target again.

In fact, if they don't change course, I can actually stay in free view and still hit them.

 

If you identified a new target, you exit free view and repeat your camera motion with your actual aim.

If you're disoriented, use the minimap for that instead. Although I'd argue yours is perhaps too cluttered by the oversized font.

 

You know your setup best, but I seriously recommend trying free view.

Yes I know. 

However, I do take issue with that not messing with the focusing of the eyes. And at those distances......the eyes needs time  to adapt, coz of the relative speeds which are also playing a part. Free view is great for rapid ROF ships being at some distance looking around and still peppering  the selected target. However, the closer you are, the more time is needed to adapt.

As for the actual issue, you have to aim at a white oval on the surface if shooting at a sub. And the ping reveal is ALSO a white thing on the surface. And the oval  is tiny. Shooting at a sub is very different from shooting at a surface ship. Not to mention that a sub can dive, thus breaking a lock, which then needs reaiming. So the time frame is  reduced , which also makes every shot to count.

So yeah, it is a legit issue.

Edited March 16 by Andrewbassg

[Wolfswetpaws]

7 hours ago, meatgrindr said:

Ruuude!  Were you not just complimented for being a gentleman?😀

LOL  😄 

[Wolfswetpaws]

7 hours ago, Andrewbassg said:

 

if I could.....

 ....I surely would.......

Btw that's from a song

 

But ofc you meant that for Wedgie, right?  

Heh.  🙂 
Joking aside, actually, I meant it for you.
With all the information at your disposal, via the un-modded game and the modifications you've installed (which are providing extra huge indicators on your display), I'm sure that I'm "missing something" about why you claim to be struggling to hit the targets.  🙂 

[Andrewbassg]

20 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

.....I'm sure that I'm "missing something" about why you claim to be struggling to hit the targets.  🙂 

Oh........

 

6 hours ago, Andrewbassg said:

you have to aim at a white oval on the surface if shooting at a sub. And the ping reveal is ALSO a white thing on the surface. 

 ...can you tell me which is which ?  Coz both are active, in the same time, in both pictures. That's why I chose those  moments, victory banner or not. Hint : I couldn't, zoomed in. 

[Tpaktop2_1 NA]

WG says its a feature. 😉You got to keep it quite otherwise everyone wants one according to WG. 😬 Kidding aside, I think what is happening is WG's renders for ships is bovine scatology. I think their servers are slow and old affecting WoWS game play. Again you got to remember the game bug for aiming is still happening now with shots going high or low if you zoom in or out. I believe the server needs to sync with you for at least 5=> seconds. It is the same thing where you clicked on torpedoes before you die and they don't launch. I think the problem is that you cannot depth charge, aim primary guns, assign manual secondaries, shoot main guns, zoom in/out, etc. with everything under 7 seconds with the WoWS servers. They can't handle it nor is WG willing to address the issues. I believe WG is making more 9 vs. 9 with their match maker to handle less server stress. Something is going on and WG does not want to talk about it.

[Wolfswetpaws]

53 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Oh........

 

 ...can you tell me which is which ?  Coz both are active, in the same time, in both pictures. That's why I chose those  moments, victory banner or not. Hint : I couldn't, zoomed in. 

I don't run the mods that you're running.
That said, the new submarine ping indication on the surface of the water is quite obvious in an un-modded version of the game.
Normally, though, I aim at the submarine's hull (when visible on the surface) or just beneath where I think the periscope is when the submarine is at persiscope depth.

Edited to add:  It helps to use H.E. ammo.

Edited March 16 by Wolfswetpaws

[Andrewbassg]

9 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I don't run the mods that you're running.

Mods have nothing to do with this issue. There is no mod which alters the appearance of the ping indicator.

 

9 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

That said, the new submarine ping indication on the surface of the water is quite obvious...

Yes, until it overlaps with the sub's actual aiming indicator. Even then, the ping indicator will be visible, but not the spot where one have to aim to hit the sub. Coz....

 

9 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Normally, though, I aim at the submarine's hull (when visible on the surface) or just beneath where I think the periscope is when the submarine is at persiscope depth.

...no. When the sub is at periscope depth, there is an oval shaped white rendering, on the surface of the water. That's your aiming point, an artificial  hitbox created by Wedgie, in order that subs could be hit. Just ask  @ArIskandir

And that's get obfuscated by the ping indicator.

9 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

It helps to use H.E. ammo.

Yes, because of the splash damage.

[Wolfswetpaws]

11 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Mods have nothing to do with this issue. There is no mod which alters the appearance of the ping indicator.

 

Yes, until it overlaps with the sub's actual aiming indicator. Even then, the ping indicator will be visible, but not the spot where one have to aim to hit the sub. Coz....

 

...no. When the sub is at periscope depth, there is an oval shaped white rendering, on the surface of the water. That's your aiming point, an artificial  hitbox created by Wedgie, in order that subs could be hit. Just ask  @ArIskandir

And that's get obfuscated by the ping indicator.

Yes, because of the splash damage.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I think WG/WOWs actually modeled in the water refraction, when a submarine is at periscope depth.

 
 

[Wolfswetpaws]

Been testing a couple of my Tier-8 submarines (Sturdy, U-190) in brawls mode, tonight.

The nerf to submarine torpedo warhead damage was keenly felt.
Dumbfire torps from less than 3km and damage was less than 18k on two different occasions.

Ships I would have sunk before the nerfs were surviving and essentially "tickled".
 

Quote

First Brawl begins: Mar 15, 09:00 AM PT (UTC-7) / your local time: Mar 15, 12:00 PM

First Brawl ends: Mar 18, 02:00 AM PT (UTC-7) / your local time: Mar 18, 05:00 AM

Update 13.2 will see four Brawls unleashed in different formats. The first Brawl will utilize a 5 vs. 5 format with Tier VIII battleships, aircraft carriers, and submarines. No more than one submarine, one aircraft carrier, and four battleships per team are allowed. Players can participate in Divisions of up to three players.

https://worldofwarships.com/en/news/game-updates/update-132-pinata-hunt/

[Yedwy]

IDK I reassigned my "shift" to rmous long ago and keep it like that, I find the "while pressed zoom out" pointless since one gets the same result like this just without riding the keys all the time and keeping your finger jammed in the keyboard under an "unnatural" angle...

[Nautic_Hunt]

THE FONT SIZE ON THAT MINIMAP

[Jakob Knight]

It looks like the primary problem is all the mods you are using to clutter your screen, along with an expectation of being shown exactly where to shoot instead of having to figure it out as with any other target you are shooting at with your guns.  All gunnery in WOWS requires you to do a bit of figuring at to where to aim at aside from what you see visually, and Subs are no different.  From the screenshots I am seeing, you had all the info you could have asked for to get a good hit (actually, too much info), so I would submit you seem to be making something out of nothing, or are expecting something that should not be there anyway.

[Andrewbassg]

12 hours ago, Jakob Knight said:

It looks like the primary problem is all the mods you are using to clutter your screen,

Well....no. I don't have any issues with targeting, because of mods. In fact, the mod which makes the "icons" ( sunk, torpedo or gun hits etc etc) transparent or to NOT appear was made by Aslain at my request. 🙂 

YMMV as for what  mods you like to use or if any, however I'm quite happy.

12 hours ago, Jakob Knight said:

......along with an expectation of being shown exactly where to shoot....

Oh dear...... people..... in case of subs that's a game mechanic!!. it was instituted almost at very beginning of sub testing, because  people said  that a vague underwater silhouette is not enough thingy to aim at. So Wedgie came up with this. A white oval shape on the surface of the water, which functions as a hitbox and is where one should aim .Edit: Then they changed the rendering to appear as a "wake", as to not break the immersion, just remembered.

You want me to look up the article?

12 hours ago, Jakob Knight said:

From the screenshots I am seeing, you had all the info you could have asked for to get a good hit (actually, too much info), so I would submit you seem to be making something out of nothing, or are expecting something that should not be there anyway

No..... Again for the n time the issue is that IF the ping indicator is rendered  on top of the sub, it will obfuscate  the  oval shaped hitbox, which is, I  repeat, a game mechanic. NOT a mod or whatevs else.

12 hours ago, Jakob Knight said:

.....instead of having to figure it out as with any other target you are shooting at with your guns.  All gunnery in WOWS requires you to do a bit of figuring at to where to aim at aside from what you see visually, and Subs are no different.  F

 Ook.... You are telling me that Earth is flat and I'm telling you that is a geoid. Ok? 🙂 

Smilies indicate that m having fun and non confrotational 🙂 

 

Edit" Btw the farthest hit I landed on a sub was from 19 km. in a Nevsky. So....

Edited March 18 by Andrewbassg

[Asym]

Wait a second ! 

We can shoot at subs and hit them !!! 

All this time I thought you had to "sit on them" to kill them (and, if you were wounded by the 27th homing torp you couldn't avoid...you blow up as well.)

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, Asym said:

Wait a second ! 

We can shoot at subs and hit them !!! 

All this time I thought you had to "sit on them" to kill them (and, if you were wounded by the 27th homing torp you couldn't avoid...you blow up as well.)

H.E. (High Explosive) projectiles and bombs are pretty effective when the Submarine is surfaced or at periscope depth.
 

[Admiral_Karasu]

17 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

H.E. (High Explosive) projectiles and bombs are pretty effective when the Submarine is surfaced or at periscope depth.
 

Don't know about periscope depth, but when it's surfaced so are torps. Lol.