Tiger Sub Strategy

[SoshiSone]

Below is a screen grab of a recent game.  I'm playing Tiger 59 in a T8 game.  I just popped radar and caught a flanking sub.  I have a strategy question for the learned in this forum.  Given all factors present in the current battle situation, I have two strategic options.  It's a given to drop ASW and engage with main guns.  But once the sub dives, what next?  Option 1 is to swing around and go on a sub hunt.  Option 2 is to continue to support the attack on cap and/or support engagements on ships thereabouts.  What would you do and why?

[WES_HoundDog]

Option 2.   If he don't die on your radar.  ya not gonna see him again for a while if you get lucky enough to radar spot him again.   with no hydro it's just going to be a waste of time and maybe your life.  Sure subs are stupid and you could catch them but if played right it's a waste.  everyone is sailing away from the sub.  A storm is coming and everyone will be going dark. If he wants to spot something to torp he'll come to the surface.  If he sees you coming then he's gonna sink and your gonna be wasting your time.  Ignore him and He's gonna follow your team.  If he's a problem for the kurfurst or whatever the heck that is, the cv can spot and you can kill him while still in a position to help your team.  If the cv fails at this, and he is still spotting your team for torps well then radar comes back up and ya might catchem and you can finish him off then.

[Verytis]

Correct if I'm wrong, but is that your team's CV next to you?  His value is questionable considering his actions, but you can't ignore the sub unless you're willing to lose the CV.

The red sub seems to be an Undine, which is a T6 RN sub. It has no alternative torps nor the submerged speed to run. Combined with Tiger's RN drifting capability, you should be able to run him down. But it may waste a lot of time given your lack of hydro and RPF to properly track him.

Next is to consider the option of pushing towards enemy cap, which is also questionable. The cyclone is coming and your radar will be on CD. You'll either be fighting the enemy at 8km with a relatively weak hull, or unable to fight at all because they're out of spotting range. The practicality will depend on the enemy ships and their hp.

Overall, I'd suggest option 1. The match is just too young to risk losing a CV. Option 2 also lacks complete info.

 

Edited March 11 by Verytis

[Wulf_Ace]

In most cases I find chasing subs ussless job

[desmo_2]

I would hunt the sub.  Perhaps you can save your CV, who has pushed up dangerously far.  More importantly, your team has the ship advantage and therefore the game advantage.  If the sub sneaks into your currently undefended cap, you could lose anyway.  Someone needs to either kill the sub or defend the cap from it.

Edited March 11 by desmo_2

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

8 hours ago, SoshiSone said:

Below is a screen grab of a recent game.  I'm playing Tiger 59 in a T8 game.  I just popped radar and caught a flanking sub.  I have a strategy question for the learned in this forum.  Given all factors present in the current battle situation, I have two strategic options.  It's a given to drop ASW and engage with main guns.  But once the sub dives, what next?  Option 1 is to swing around and go on a sub hunt.  Option 2 is to continue to support the attack on cap and/or support engagements on ships thereabouts.  What would you do and why?

Its hard to say because its all dependent on if the Sub players is good or crap. If hes good you wont get that chance again and he will probably back cap you or reak havoc on youre backlines (CV, BBs). 

If hes bad like most Subs players are there is a chance of you killing him if you chase him, but its gonna be hard and take a lot of time, unless hes really a bot.

In one game in my U-4501, I had a 3 man div, no radar and only one British DD hydro chasing me and I lead them on a wild goose chase to the end of the map away from all caps, triggered them with pings to let them know where I was with short durations and then after a while I just did a 180 making sure with sub hydro that I was at least 2 km away from hydro DD and then I went back and back capped them and landed some torps on a BB. 

So they pretty much wasted their time hald the game and they lost, because during this time my remaining team took control of the map.

So IF you gonna go after a sub, make sure you can kill it quick and make sure you dont just have that red "must kill a sub"-mist over youre eyes, because in worst case hes just toying with you, which is quite easy for him. 

In 95 % of the cases I ignore chasing a sub unless I see a way for me to kill it in seconds, just not worth the time and if he has brains he will just shotgun you to death if you get to close.

Edited March 11 by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube

[coolrunings_99]

Had a similar and very short conundrum the other day, but never had time to dwell on it since was shotgunned to port in a jiffie😁

Balao in cap, I went with ‘practice DD, Katsonis’ outward and right off cap near an island contemplating on that Balao and his red gang near the same cap-radared him and imho he turned away while crash diving.  Here s me contemplating should I break cover, gun it into cap and try to kill him, for couple of seconds only to see him plopping up half a click in front of me with a very very narrow ‘line of skill’ sending me back to port.

Katsonis I use with no concealment skills, to trot around, radaring and getting very high post battle ammo bills, mainly to practice dd on dd kung fu😉

Kudos to sub play, cool and calm execution-if I had gunned it into cap the moment it dove, found his ‘G spot’ sort of speak maybe I could have killed or dented him, but would for sure die anyways due to ‘vested interest’ of his many nearby teammates. Could have, would have, should have😉

Their xp gains, giggles of good players having the time of their lives while dildoing around🥱 do tilt me from time  to time, saving grace being that all that suckmarine jizz is designed with-that in mind.

They fit really swell🤣 and the only balance out there is-there are more bad dildos than good dildos around.

Screw the lot of them, if one needs to stop playing considering most of things sub implementation wise-one will🥂

[Wolfswetpaws]

10 hours ago, SoshiSone said:

Below is a screen grab of a recent game.  I'm playing Tiger 59 in a T8 game.  I just popped radar and caught a flanking sub.  I have a strategy question for the learned in this forum.  Given all factors present in the current battle situation, I have two strategic options.  It's a given to drop ASW and engage with main guns.  But once the sub dives, what next?  Option 1 is to swing around and go on a sub hunt.  Option 2 is to continue to support the attack on cap and/or support engagements on ships thereabouts.  What would you do and why?

The Undine has limited speed (about 20 knots) and the torpedoes have a range of about 10 km, if I recall corectly.

Given that you're sailing alongside of your team's CV (if I interpreted your image correctly), I think continuing to support the push towards the red-team's base makes sense.
~ A green-team BB is actually closer to the red-team Undine, and is a more likely target (for the Undine) and probably has Depthcharge Airstrikes for use against the submarine.
~ The Undine probably won't get to the green-team base before you can get to the red-team base.
~ The legendary performance of a Tiger '59 played by the world-famous @SoshiSone will improve the odds of a successful push to the red-base, in my opinion.
~ Peeling-off to chase the Submarine won't be necessary because you'll attract its attention when you begin capturing the red-base.  😉 

 

[Itwastuesday]

Alt+F4

Uninstall

[mashed68]

Turn around, run away. 

[ArIskandir]

14 hours ago, SoshiSone said:

Below is a screen grab of a recent game.  I'm playing Tiger 59 in a T8 game.  I just popped radar and caught a flanking sub.  I have a strategy question for the learned in this forum.  Given all factors present in the current battle situation, I have two strategic options.  It's a given to drop ASW and engage with main guns.  But once the sub dives, what next?  Option 1 is to swing around and go on a sub hunt.  Option 2 is to continue to support the attack on cap and/or support engagements on ships thereabouts.  What would you do and why?

Option 2: I can't really see the details of the minimap or units involved, from what I read from other answers the target is a T6 Undine, a slow low threat enemy. You don't need to waste time hunting it, continue to support the attack and focus on units that present an actual threat for you or your team. The Sub lacks the alpha and mobility to proyect a significant influence or challenge your operations, she's also far on the side of the action, if you keep pushing the Sub will be left isolated on the flank without any target to engage, thus a "mission kill" for all practical effect.  The only caveat is the ship closer to the Sub, I can't tell what she is, if you consider the survival of that particular ship critical and consider she's vulnerable to the Sub, you could reposition closer to that ship in order to provide support... else you could let her deal with the Sub by herself and proceed to do whatever you think is best. 

Under no circumstances I recommend going after the Sub, it is not needed and it would be a waste of time. In order to engage, the Sub will need to close the distance ON THE SURFACE (she's too slow to get in range submerged), this will make her always vulnerable to your Radar. Basically engaging you would be suicidal for that Subs and very likelly would take damage every time she tries to close on you. 

[SoshiSone]

Thanks for the feedback.  In the game itself, I ran down the sub. But it took the entire rest of the game.  We won, but I questioned my decision because the Tiger is really a "team" ship and plays to that strength.  I was also top tier, making my worth that much more needed in a place where I could maximize potential.  So a T6 sub basically nentralized a T8 CA for the rest of the match.  I eventually killed him at a point in the match where it didn't matter what happened between us.  In retrospect, I decided it was a bad call on my part, and it seems most agree.  In the heat of the moment it seemed a good idea.  But it was ultiamtely not a good call.  Fortunately not a fatal decision for the team as they collectively were able to close the deal without me.  No matter how long I've played, there is always something new to learn.  Always a reflection on a poor decision and the desire to do better next time.  And fortunately not any guilt over a poor decision losing the game.

Although our T6 CV (Serov) looks haphazard, it was a good play.  We cleared that side of the map (with the exception of the sub).  He has good terrain covage and is othewise well protected with no red ship vectors to engage him.  A well calculated move that has vastly increased his sortie rate...triple to quadruple what he'd achieve if he stayed back.  CV captains that can find these positions often appear to be crazy pushers, but are often excellent cacluating captains.  He knew what he was doing.  Topped out on the score board, which is a good achievement for a T6 CV in a T8 match.

[HogHammer]

9 minutes ago, SoshiSone said:

In the game itself, I ran down the sub. But it took the entire rest of the game.  We won, but I questioned my decision because the Tiger is really a "team" ship and plays to that strength.

I've been in the same situation. It's basically playing cat and mouse with a sub for the team's benefit. It takes you somewhat out of the game, but in hindsight, I think it is the best decision overall. I've seen it too many times, especially in a close game where the sub is still lurking around, only to blast two low-health ships out of the water and turn the tide of the game in favor of the red team.  If there is a ship in my section of the game or can move into a cap, I'm going to make every attempt to kill it.

[ArIskandir]

12 minutes ago, HogHammer said:

I've been in the same situation. It's basically playing cat and mouse with a sub for the team's benefit. It takes you somewhat out of the game, but in hindsight, I think it is the best decision overall.

Depends on the relative battle influence of both ships imo. If you are a low tier ship tying up a higher tier more influential enemy then the trade can be advantageous for your team, but in the present case where a low threat T6 Sub ties down a T8 ship, I think it was a bad call to remove yourself from the action in order to counter a threat that was low priority and would counter itself by trying to engage you. 

[Justin_Simpleton]

31 minutes ago, HogHammer said:

I've been in the same situation. It's basically playing cat and mouse with a sub for the team's benefit. It takes you somewhat out of the game, but in hindsight, I think it is the best decision overall. I've seen it too many times, especially in a close game where the sub is still lurking around, only to blast two low-health ships out of the water and turn the tide of the game in favor of the red team.  If there is a ship in my section of the game or can move into a cap, I'm going to make every attempt to kill it.

It's best to kill a sub early when you have some idea where it is.  Left unattended, they show up unannounced and unwelcome later in the battle.

[thornzero]

19 minutes ago, Justin_Simpleton said:

It's best to kill a sub early when you have some idea where it is.  Left unattended, they show up unannounced and unwelcome later in the battle.

I agree. In the mid-tiers this is a little bit easier but there are times to wave off.

[Jakob Knight]

I think I agree with those who advised Option 2 in most cases.  The Sub is in poor position to keep up with you if it submerges and the time it would take to turn would burn up the active time on your radar.  You're also in a vital position to support both your CV and the BB, and leaving them would deny them your fire support just when you are closing the enemy cap.  

 

Of course, with the CV, BB, and yourself there, you might have had enough ASDC to remove the Sub without having to change your plans (I can't make out specific ship classes in the image). 

 

In that situation, I would let the Sub go for the moment unless you can tell you can be spared to do an extended hunt.  Ideally, your own Sub or one of your DDs should divert to engage it with you, but that would only happen if they were team players.

 

 

[Chiron]

SoshiSone.....I love you🥰

[SoshiSone]

17 hours ago, Chiron said:

SoshiSone.....I love you🥰