EULA changes point towards massive nerfs to older ships.

[Aragathor]

New EULA that will go in force in April, points towards WG planning on nerfing older premiums or even taking them away from players.

Spoiler

13.5. IF YOU RESIDE IN THE EUROPEAN UNION, THE FOLLOWING RULES APPLY IN ADDITION:

13.5.1. For any upcoming Changes to Paid Items, if a Change has a negative impact on your access to Paid Items, we will inform you immediately about the Change, the characteristics and time of occurrence. If the impact of an upcoming Change is not minor, we undertake to inform you on a durable medium in a clear and comprehensible manner:
– of such Changes before or simultaneously with the upcoming Change; and
– the features and time of the Change; and
– of your right to terminate free of charge the relevant Contract which is affected by the Change, within 30 calendar days from receipt of such information or from the time when the Paid Items have been modified by us, whichever is later.

13.5.2. If you decide to terminate the Contract in accordance with section 13.5.1 above:
– Upon receiving a statement from you expressing your decision to terminate, we will reimburse you without undue delay, and in any event not later than 14 calendar days from such notice, the proportionate part of the order corresponding to the period of time during which the Paid Item was not in conformity and any part of the amount paid by you in advance for any period that would have remained had you decided not to terminate; and
– After the termination of the Contract, you undertake to refrain from using the Paid Items and/or from making it available to third parties.

13.5.3. We will carry out such reimbursement using the same means of payment that you used. However, due to technical limitations we cannot warrant that payments made by you via a specific payment method will be reimbursed to you via that same payment method, in which case you agree that reimbursements for such payments can be facilitated by us via another, common means of payment, e.g. via transfer of money to your bank account, in case reimbursements via that same payment method that you have used are technically impossible. In any case, you will not incur any fees because of such reimbursement.

It seems like WG is going down a route where they will brute force changes, to bring back older ships into shop. Ships they've made OP.

It's also interesting how they've specified customer protection rules in their EULA by nation, not a very good sign.

[Rollingonit]

Looks like just standard EU consumer protection law stuff.

[Jakob Knight]

Hard to say.  I'm not sure what EU law has to say about terminated purchased online items, but the part about '...the proportionate part of the order corresponding to the period of time during which the Paid Item was not in conformity and any part of the amount paid by you in advance for any period that would have remained had you decided not to terminate..." seems to indicate a limited-time Purchased Item that one could purchase for a length of time and do so ahead of time.

 

To me, this doesn't point to changes to older ships, but to something like Premium Time, where they make a change retroactively and you have to either pay the new price or ask for a refund of the time remaining to you.  It may also have to do with players who purchased Premium Time before Lesta split off, and this is to cover some legal loophole.

 

I guess we'll see.

 

Edit:  one scenario I can see this coming into play is where Player A has purchased 365 days of Premium time at about 15 USD a month and a month later WG changes their rates to 12 USD a month.  Player A could choose to just eat the loss and keep their time or demand termination of the Premium time with reimbursement for the remaining time they would have had left.  In extremis, this could also apply if they were going to terminate access to the game and players' purchased Premium Time would count as a defaulted purchase that did not complete it's promised time of coverage.

 

Edited March 4 by Jakob Knight

[Aragathor]

It would be, if not for the blurb about "if a Change has a negative impact on your access to Paid Items". That means WG is planning to remove content or thinks about removing content people paid for. It's a slippery slope.

[Nevermore135]

35 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

It seems like WG is going down a route where they will brute force changes, to bring back older ships into shop. Ships they've made OP.

It's also interesting how they've specified customer protection rules in their EULA by nation, not a very good sign.

I wouldn’t go that far. Ships on the “naughty list” are becoming rarer in battle due to player attrition/churn, and these rare ships still serve a lucrative purpose as crate/auction bait. Add to this WG’s past reluctance to upset player’s feelings by re-releasing their “exclusive” content, and I don’t foresee the changes you describe.

I see this more as a confirmation of what myself and many others have always claimed regarding premium ships: despite WG’s statements of intent regarding ship balancing, in the end they will do what they want/feel needs to be done. This change to the EULA signals to me that they are simply preparing to move beyond their post-GC rebalance attempt policy. I’m not very familiar with the EU consumer protection laws that are often touted by some, and have always been skeptical of their scope, but this looks like WG preparing to insulate themselves from potential future legal action by providing the 30-day window to “terminate the contract.”

Edited March 4 by Nevermore135

[AdmiralThunder]

I think it would be very foolish of WG to remove ships from players. They already have a sinking game and that would just make the hole even bigger and sink it faster if they start removing ships from player's accounts. Also, to my knowledge, WG has only removed a ship from the game, and thus from players, 2 maybe 3X that I can think of.

* Kitakami - when it was removed years ago anyone who had it lost it. Those players were compensated with Atago.

* US and IJN CV's - this was for the rework and players received FXP and credit compensation for the removed tech tree ships and any premiums were retained (at new tier if applicable). People could get refunds in doubloons for premium CV's if desired.

* Graz Zeppelin - removed from sale just days after its initial release. As I recall you could get a full refund or keep it on your account until it was brought back/fixed (can't remember if you could still play it or not). 

WG doesn't have a big history of taking ships away from players. A ship may be removed from availability but players who had it don't lose it usually. For all of their flaws, bad decisions, poor management, and arrogance I can't see even them deciding it would be good to go around taking ships away from players. Nerfing old premiums like say Giulio Cesare ok sure (I wouldn't if I were them but can see them finally doing it) but taking GC away from people who have it? NO! AND the precedent has already been set on this exact thing with Missouri. OG owners keep the OG ship and new owners get the nerfed one so WG certainly can do that if they want to bring a currently removed OP ship back (I know Missouri was removed for its earnings being OP not its performance but it is a similar situation and the same system could be used).

I also don't really have an issue with EULA's by region and don't see that as a bad sign. 1st of all they have always had that. The EULA was slightly different for the different servers. The reason for that is some countries have different laws than others as it pertains to gaming such a Belgium's no loot box thing. So having an EULA tailored to the region it applies to isn't some impending sign of doom or issues IMHO. That actually makes sense to me.

Edited March 4 by AdmiralThunder

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

10 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

I wouldn’t go that far. Ships on the “naughty list” are becoming rarer in battle due to player attrition/churn, and these rare ships still serve a lucrative purpose as crate/auction bait. Add to this WG’s past reluctance to upset player’s feelings by re-releasing their “exclusive” content, and I don’t foresee the changes you describe.

I see this more as a confirmation of what myself and many have always claimed regarding premium ships: despite WG’s statements of intent regarding ship balancing, in the end they will do what they want/feel needs to be done. This change to the EULA signals to me that they are simply preparing to move beyond their post-GC rebalance attempt policy. I’m not very familiar with the EU consumer protection laws that are often touted by some, and have always been skeptical of their scope, but this looks like WG preparing to insulate themselves from potential future legal action by providing the 30-day window to “terminate the contract.”

Indeed.

[Snargfargle]

35 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

It's also interesting how they've specified customer protection rules in their EULA by nation, not a very good sign.

That's standard practice for companies as laws vary by nation and by jurisdictions within nations. In my state, I can buy a working flamethrower online and have it shipped to my door the very next day. Try doing that if you live in California or Hawaii.

[HogHammer]

Really, this is not a big deal.  Saw a lot of "localization" in the new EULA to reflect consumer protection laws by region, country and even states.  The WG legal beagles are just catching up with various changes.

I'm sure we will see even more changes moving forward - just wait for all the EU member countries to do their protection laws as part of their own localization.

[Captain_Rawhide]

Maybe they'll remove subs.  🤤

[Wolfswetpaws]

 

[AdmiralThunder]

30 minutes ago, Captain_Rawhide said:

Maybe they'll remove subs.  🤤

[Jakob Knight]

51 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

 

But of course!  How else can they implement the new line of homing torpedo Destroyers with Torpedo Reload Booster?

🤪

[USMC2145]

Are they getting ready to change the game to subscription??

Subscription Rules

Definition. Price and Conditions

9.5.1. Certain Products may permit you to order Paid Items subject to automatic billing of your selected payment method at pre-determined time intervals (“Subscriptions”).

9.5.2. The Paid Items that you may subscribe to, the initial period of the Subscription, the price of the Subscription, the time intervals at which your payment method will be billed, and other details of the Subscription shall be clearly specified in the Subscription interface before you subscribe.

Price Changes

9.5.3. Wargaming reserves the right to adjust the Subscription price to reflect the factors that influence the cost of the Subscription (“Subscription Price Change“). Examples of such factors are production and licensing costs, costs for technical provision and distribution, support services and other additional services that can be accessed and used via independent platforms, web applications and social networks, as well as costs of sales (e.g. billing and payment, marketing, public relations), general administrative and other overhead costs (e.g. rent, interest and other financing costs, costs for personnel, service providers and services, IT systems, energy), as well as government-imposed fees, contributions, taxes and duties.

9.5.4. Wargaming shall notify you of a Subscription Price Change at least 30 calendar days in advance. Such notification shall be sent to you via e-mail or on other durable medium. Where permitted by law, we reserve the right to send such notice via other commonly used notification mechanisms (for example, in-game pop-up message or a message in the account management section) reasonably in advance. The notification shall contain the new Subscription price and an explanation of the main factors contributing to the Subscription Price Change as well as instructions and a possibility to easily terminate the Subscription (e.g. a link to unsubscribe). We will obtain your consent to the Subscription Price Change where required by law. Otherwise, you shall be deemed to have accepted the Subscription Price Change unless you have unsubscribed before the new price is effective.

The Right to Terminate Subscription

9.5.5. You may terminate your Subscription at any time with effect from the next Billing Period. Your statutory right to extraordinary termination for good cause remain unaffected.

9.5.6. You can terminate your Subscription by logging in to your Account and pressing an “Unsubscribe” button (or a similar conspicuously named button) on the same webpage where you purchased the Subscription or by following a different process specified for a particular Subscription. Where required by applicable law, Wargaming provides a mechanism for terminating Subscriptions without logging in to your Account.

9.5.7. Wargaming may terminate your Subscription at any time with at least 2 (two) calendar days’ notice, subject to a proportionate refund of any unused Subscription time. Wargaming may also terminate the Subscription immediately for good cause, in particular if the user fails to pay the Subscription Price or if the extraordinary termination is justified taking into account mutual interest (for example, if Wargaming suspends the user’s Account or closes the user’s access to a game or the games in which the Subscription is active in accordance with sections 19.4-19.9 “Suspension or Termination by Wargaming” of this EULA).

Failure to Pay

9.5.8. If the Subscription Price is not paid due to the user’s fault, Wargaming may temporarily suspend the Subscription until the payment is made. The Subscription shall not expire, but shall be paused, except for the cases when Wargaming terminates the subscription in accordance with section 9.5.7 of these Rules. Any further legal claims and/or claims of Wargaming arising from the EULA shall remain unaffected.

[Snargfargle]

5 minutes ago, USMC2145 said:

Are they getting ready to change the game to subscription??

"Subscription" refers to Premium time.

Warships Premium Account Subscription

The subscription is a paid service that gives you more XP per battle than Wargaming Premium Account. This service automatically renews your Warships Premium Account every 30 days.

https://na.wargaming.net/support/en/products/wows/article/32368/

Edited March 5 by Snargfargle

[Nevermore135]

8 minutes ago, USMC2145 said:

Are they getting ready to change the game to subscription??

There is a premium time monthly subscription in the premium shop.

WoWs already moved to a “soft” subscription model with the battle pass/event pass to encourage regular monthly spending. There is no indication that the devs don’t intend to keep the game F2P.

Edited March 5 by Nevermore135

[USMC2145]

34 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

"Subscription" refers to Premium time.

Warships Premium Account Subscription

The subscription is a paid service that gives you more XP per battle than Wargaming Premium Account. This service automatically renews your Warships Premium Account every 30 days.

https://na.wargaming.net/support/en/products/wows/article/32368/

 

31 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

There is a premium time monthly subscription in the premium shop.

WoWs already moved to a “soft” subscription model with the battle pass/event pass to encourage regular monthly spending. There is no indication that the devs don’t intend to keep the game F2P.

I know about that. It just seems odd that they have decided to put a whole section in the EULA now over something that has been around for sometime with no issues. It just seems they have something else in mind coming. I could be wrong, but it does seem odd. 

[3LUE]

11 minutes ago, USMC2145 said:

 

I know about that. It just seems odd that they have decided to put a whole section in the EULA now over something that has been around for sometime with no issues. It just seems they have something else in mind coming. I could be wrong, but it does seem odd. 

I would not put anything past WG. Over the last year or so they have been adding all sorts of money making schemes here and in WoT. 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

25 minutes ago, USMC2145 said:

It just seems odd that they have decided to put a whole section in the EULA now over something that has been around for sometime with no issues. It just seems they have something else in mind coming.

Further stupid and outrageous changes to EU laws.