Serious sub question.

[Col_NASTY]

Don't get triggered Sub guys. I also have plenty of Premium subs that I don't play.

I noticed this yesterday when I sub hid behind me all game while I took fire.. capped and got kills , shot down planes and he stayed FULL HP and stayed in the Cap the I SOLO capped ( while he hid behind the island next to the cap and watched ) and HE got more XP than I did!!

 But it REALLY just hit HARD in the last game I was in this morning.

What's with WG Pushing these things so hard by making everything so easy for them??

We will see after the so-called shotgunning thing is fixed but I think it's a simple token gesture because they can still pop up and kill you before you even know they are there.  Who can dodge torps from a bote you don't even see from 2.1 KM ( that's more than HALF the distance of the BEST conceal of any DD. I won't even get started on the fact that only a SUB can dive when a CV is coming or they are about to be spotted etc.  POP up spotting is a sure death for ANYONE hunting a Sub in range of any other ships as well.

THAT all said WTH is up with SUB XP???

I just left a game where BOTH subs Red a Green BOTH topped the board and all the RED one did was follow me around keeping me perma spotted in my Bourg, but no one was shooting at me and hitting me .

NO CAPS

NO KILLS

NO spotting Damage

No NOTHING but following me the whole game.

2335 XP!!!  REALLY?? Almost 1K more than the rest of his teammates who had kills caps etc.

If I did that in a DD I would be at the BOTTOM of the team even with the Combat Scout award!

Just followed me around the entire time.

I thought people played Subs for the easy kills but If they are getting so much XP then I totally get it.

Again , this is a SERIOUS question for the people that know how the XP works and why.. None of the Hey Sub Life is hard crowd need apply. I hardly EVER play subs and even I can get kills in them.

MUCH easier than a DD,  much less a SMOKELESS DD 

We can't hide underwater .

Wouldn't want to.

[ArIskandir]

5 minutes ago, Col_NASTY said:

What's with WG Pushing these things so hard by making everything so easy for them??

Don't know bro, Guess CVs weren't easy enough... 🤷‍♂️

[HogHammer]

26 minutes ago, Col_NASTY said:

THAT all said WTH is up with SUB XP???

Actually a very good question.  Just double checked the WoWs and WoWs Wiki to see if they address XP earnings for subs and did not find anything.  Maybe @iDuckman can address/provide a little more info or a proper link.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

54 minutes ago, Col_NASTY said:

Don't get triggered Sub guys. I also have plenty of Premium subs that I don't play.

I noticed this yesterday when I sub hid behind me all game while I took fire.. capped and got kills , shot down planes and he stayed FULL HP and stayed in the Cap the I SOLO capped ( while he hid behind the island next to the cap and watched ) and HE got more XP than I did!!

 But it REALLY just hit HARD in the last game I was in this morning.

What's with WG Pushing these things so hard by making everything so easy for them??

We will see after the so-called shotgunning thing is fixed but I think it's a simple token gesture because they can still pop up and kill you before you even know they are there.  Who can dodge torps from a bote you don't even see from 2.1 KM ( that's more than HALF the distance of the BEST conceal of any DD. I won't even get started on the fact that only a SUB can dive when a CV is coming or they are about to be spotted etc.  POP up spotting is a sure death for ANYONE hunting a Sub in range of any other ships as well.

THAT all said WTH is up with SUB XP???

I just left a game where BOTH subs Red a Green BOTH topped the board and all the RED one did was follow me around keeping me perma spotted in my Bourg, but no one was shooting at me and hitting me .

NO CAPS

NO KILLS

NO spotting Damage

No NOTHING but following me the whole game.

2335 XP!!!  REALLY?? Almost 1K more than the rest of his teammates who had kills caps etc.

If I did that in a DD I would be at the BOTTOM of the team even with the Combat Scout award!

Just followed me around the entire time.

I thought people played Subs for the easy kills but If they are getting so much XP then I totally get it.

Again , this is a SERIOUS question for the people that know how the XP works and why.. None of the Hey Sub Life is hard crowd need apply. I hardly EVER play subs and even I can get kills in them.

MUCH easier than a DD,  much less a SMOKELESS DD 

We can't hide underwater .

Wouldn't want to.

WG trying to get the spreadsheet to say subs are popular so they can claim to Victor Kisly that the launch was a success...

CVs get nerfed earnings so the facts of how OP they are get hidden from the players.

Edited March 2 by Daniel_Allan_Clark

[Rollingonit]

1 hour ago, Col_NASTY said:

snip

He must of had a decent amount of dmg. And it was dmg focused on ships (percentage). Ive seen what you've described, subs seemingly doing not much but scoring high XP scores. It's them doing concentrated dmg. 

I find it still far more common the subs finish near the bottom than the top of scoreboard.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

2 hours ago, Col_NASTY said:

NO spotting Damage

But you don't get to see his spotting damage. Or the outright damage he does, for that matter. Or decap ribbons. Or overall torp hits, floods, incapacitations, etc.

I've sometimes expressed curiosity on-stream when I see a particular player come first in ANY ship, by a wide margin, to know exactly what they did to get there, ESPECIALLY when they got few or no kills. Not because I think the high finish was undeserved, but simply to see exactly what they did to bring them to that spot. 

Edited March 2 by Ensign Cthulhu

[desmo_2]

You have to know what you are doing to play subs well.  As Rollingonit said above, most of the subs in my games are near the bottom of the scoreboard.

Most sub players do not know how to balance spotting for the team while remaining undetected.  A lot of them ping constantly, which basically just calls air drops on themselves.  Most do not know how to break submarine surveillance once a nearby sub activates it.

Subs are not hard to learn (heck, even I did it in a couple of weeks), but it sure seems a lot of players haven't figured it out.

If you DO know how to play subs, I agree it seems ridiculously easy to score 2,000+ base XP.  That amount of XP for regular ships equals a game really well played, but it seems an easier benchmark to hit with subs.

[Admiral_Karasu]

Now I started wondering about something as well. What makes people play subs? I can understand those who perform at or near unicum level why they want to do it, but what about those who, shall we say, play them less well? Because of the underwater scenery, or are there some really juicy missions to play? Is it the same crowd playing badly day in day out, or is there some kind of rotation going on?

[Rollingonit]

30 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Now I started wondering about something as well. What makes people play subs? I can understand those who perform at or near unicum level why they want to do it, but what about those who, shall we say, play them less well? Because of the underwater scenery, or are there some really juicy missions to play? Is it the same crowd playing badly day in day out, or is there some kind of rotation going on?

Im sure it varies person to person. Some might like it do to the operations performed by subs in WW2. Some might just like submarines, historical and modern. Some may like the "rogue" like MMORPG sort of play, where you sneak up and attack close range. Some may like it to simply troll. It's different enough from surface ships that some may simply like that. 

Is it the same crowd playing badly day in and day out, partially. That happens with all the ships classes though.

[iDuckman]

3 hours ago, HogHammer said:

Actually a very good question.  Just double checked the WoWs and WoWs Wiki to see if they address XP earnings for subs and did not find anything.  Maybe @iDuckman can address/provide a little more info or a proper link.

Nothing in particular.  However, it is known that there are unpublished modifiers to XP and Credits for each ship (think OG Missouri), and subs are rumored to have high ones.  Undoubtedly WG jacked them up to make subs more desirable to play, and may balance them in future.

I am not aware of any changes to BXP for subs.

 

[Admiral_Karasu]

14 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

Is it the same crowd playing badly day in and day out, partially. That happens with all the ships classes though.

Yes, I can believe that. I myself play the.. same ships... all the time...

[thornzero]

I kill my fair share of subs and mostly with depth charges. I get huge xp for doing so. I might not do much in some matches as a DD but kill a sub, and I'll be at the top of the board. No problem. It's not just them getting the points.

[Admiral_Karasu]

4 minutes ago, thornzero said:

I kill my fair share of subs and mostly with depth charges. I get huge xp for doing so. I might not do much in some matches as a DD but kill a sub, and I'll be at the top of the board. No problem. It's not just them getting the points.

You are either incredibly good on a DD or you have the most amazing luck running into incompetent red teams all the time.

[thornzero]

Some of it is pure luck. Not gonna lie.

What mostly happens is the subs are staying near their support so if you chase them; the cruisers gun you [DD] down hard. There is little to no escape.

So I stopped chasing them.

There is the odd time you meet one coming around an island and you just get to nail it.

There are these other times where they are focused on something else and you can kind of get close - come at them from the side.

I also find speed boost to be crucial to get on top of them. 

I will look at the mini map if I'm close to their last position, look for the spot in the water / pop speed boost / and unload with some success.

After a while I've gotten better. Subs are far less a problem for me than CVs. I'm dismayed at the delay for CV spotting to be addressed. That is my worst experience.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

Im no expert but if the sub is following you entire game and stayed behind you he shouldn't really get that much XP because he doesn't get all the "Damage by spotting". I have a lot of pretty crappy games in subs where I gotten first place and between 2000 - 2500 Base Xp, but then I stayed on the surface and spotted most of the round, I often even get "Combat Scout" Achievements without even trying. So if he got that amount of XP he must have done something, capping, torping or scouting.

I think it common knowledge by now that subs get som boosted earnings, but I also think the spotting damage has to be a factor. I speed run thru every Battlepass when playing subs, Subs are Mega hacks for any XP-based missions.

Case in point:

67 K damage in a T10 game? First in the team and 3000 BASE XP!

24 K Damage in a T10 game 2600 BASE XP, Sure some caps and stuff, but playing Subs it doesn't seem to matter at all how much damage your teammates manage to do.

99 K damage in T10 and Combat Scout. First in the team and 2500 Base XP

56 K damage at T10! First in the team and 2200 BASE XP

And the list just goes on and on and on and on and on ......

 

Also I have sero confidence in the so called "nerf" for Subs and CVs, it seems like they will actually get some disguised buffs instead. 

Edited March 2 by OldSchoolGaming_Youtube

[clammboy]

4 hours ago, Rollingonit said:

He must of had a decent amount of dmg. And it was dmg focused on ships (percentage). Ive seen what you've described, subs seemingly doing not much but scoring high XP scores. It's them doing concentrated dmg. 

I find it still far more common the subs finish near the bottom than the top of scoreboard.

This may kind of be true but seems like subs are still finishing in the top 3 twice as much as they were even 6 months ago. Half the games I play now have a sub in the top 3 especially when there are 2 subs on each team which increase the chances that someone is good. Lots of games with subs finishing number 1 on the team a lot more then just a short while ago. 

[Rollingonit]

33 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

snip

You kinda left out the most important page for us to get a better idea what is happening. Next time post the detailed breakdown page.

[Rollingonit]

13 minutes ago, clammboy said:

This may kind of be true but seems like subs are still finishing in the top 3 twice as much as they were even 6 months ago. Half the games I play now have a sub in the top 3 especially when there are 2 subs on each team which increase the chances that someone is good. Lots of games with subs finishing number 1 on the team a lot more then just a short while ago. 

Ill have to look at the recent 100 games I played, Ive oddly had less CVs and subs in my T9/T10 brackets than usual in general. Or at least it seems that way.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

1 minute ago, Rollingonit said:

You kinda left out the most important page for us to get a better idea what is happening. Next time post the detailed breakdown page.

I could, but that would made my post 2 pages long. I thought the 2 first pictures was showing my point that is must be something regarding the not so secret built in boosts to subs paired with some boosted spotting damage that gives such great results rather than damage (which was lacking in my pictures), but what I can tell most have based their results (high score on board and Base XP9 on before.

For instance a damage farming Yamato sitting on 10-line earning much more than a spotting, capping, torping DD in the past.

So what am saying is Subs just need to sail around on the surface doing Jack sheeeit and they get great Base XP.

[Rollingonit]

5 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I could, but that would made my post 2 pages long. I thought the 2 first pictures was showing my point that is must be something regarding the not so secret built in boosts to subs paired with some boosted spotting damage that gives such great results rather than damage (which was lacking in my pictures), but what I can tell most have based their results (high score on board and Base XP9 on before.

For instance a damage farming Yamato sitting on 10-line earning much more than a spotting, capping, torping DD in the past.

So what am saying is Subs just need to sail around on the surface doing Jack sheeeit and they get great Base XP.

While I do believe subs have some bonus XP given. That detailed breakdown page still gives us a better idea what is happening. We can see where dmg is being concentrated, what tier ships dmg is being given to, cap time, spotting dmg.

The detailed page is better for understanding how XP works.

[clammboy]

28 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

Ill have to look at the recent 100 games I played, Ive oddly had less CVs and subs in my T9/T10 brackets than usual in general. Or at least it seems that way.

Could be I am playing a lot of 5-8 tiers and seeing plenty of subs and CVs and lots of good sub players and of course lots of really bad ones. Just IMHO there sure seems to be more subs topping the leader board then 6 or 8 months ago. And it seem now its actually harder to hit a good sub player with ASW since the supposed nerf to them.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

25 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

While I do believe subs have some bonus XP given. That detailed breakdown page still gives us a better idea what is happening. We can see where dmg is being concentrated, what tier ships dmg is being given to, cap time, spotting dmg.

The detailed page is better for understanding how XP works.

Indeed.

We could also start seeing if WG is adjusting XP earnings more frequently than they say...since it's not a parameter with published rules.

[Rollingonit]

13 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Could be I am playing a lot of 5-8 tiers and seeing plenty of subs and CVs and lots of good sub players and of course lots of really bad ones. Just IMHO there sure seems to be more subs topping the leader board then 6 or 8 months ago. And it seem now its actually harder to hit a good sub player with ASW since the supposed nerf to them.

I do think the tiers play a part. I cycled through my endgame pics of the last 50-70ish games (all T9+), there were a bunch top scoring subs; but not in a lopsided manner of any sort. I probably counted 6-7 where any sub actually scored above 2k BXP in a win. 

There are all sorts of factors though. Game type, game length, tier differences, skill differences. So it's hard to say for sure. Even in my Georgia, I probably end up suppressing BXP gains both for my teammates sub BXP and enemies sub BXP. So that could be a factor. 

[clammboy]

15 minutes ago, Rollingonit said:

I do think the tiers play a part.

Yea I agree with you and I don't want to dwell on subs and bad mouth them to much. I think WG will figure it out by 2030 lol !!! In the mean time I just have to get better at dealing with them.

[ArIskandir]

4 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

. What makes people play subs?

For me it was the sneaky aspect. I love to stalk prey, waiting for the perfect opportunity to deliver a devstrike. Subs provide that experience, the ability to backstab/assassinate a player opponent. 

3 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

You are either incredibly good on a DD or you have the most amazing luck running into incompetent red teams all the time.

If You know how to play Subs and know how to play DDs, hunting Subs comes as a natural development. I became so good at hunting Subs that it was an almost certainty I would collect (or get it killed by team Airstrikes) any Sub that spawned on my flank. Many times I was able to sunk 2 Subs in the same Match. 

Edited March 3 by ArIskandir