Can Anyone Please Tell Me The Historical Precedent For Some Of The Commonwealth Names

[tm63au]

Commonwealth cruiser Red Fort

What country ? what is the significance of this name ?

 

Commonwealth cruiser Cerberus

 

What country ? this is the code name for the famous Kriegsmarine operation of The Brest Squadron sailing up the English Channel how does this even equate to the Commonwealth, can someone please tell me ?

 

Commonwealth cruiser Encounter

HMS Encounter was a Challenger-class protected cruiser launched in 1902. She was transferred to the Royal Australian Navy in 1919, renamed HMAS Penguin in 1923 while serving as a depot ship, and was scuttled in 1932.

 

HMS Encounter (H10) was an E-class destroyer launched in 1934 and sunk in 1942.

  

 HMAS Encounter is a Royal Australian Navy (RAN) naval base located in Birkenhead, South Australia. 

So this Tier IX ship is going to be a hybrid of 1902 Armoured Cruiser , a British E class DD and Naval land base ? WOW cant wait to see this ships graphics

 

Do the DEVs just open a page on Janes Fighting Ships close there eyes and then put there finger down on the page and hope it lands on a ship name ? 

[Project45_Opytny]

Red Fort is a placeholder name for a placeholder test ship representing stats of Delhi (ex-Achilles of the Leander-class in her immediate post-war configuration), the actual Tier V Commonwealth cruiser. A lagged modelling process caused this stopgap measure.

And regarding placeholder test ships and their names some more effort here has been used in contrast to instances like "Delaware Test" or "R-10" (that after lengthly testing became Delny).

As for the others, it has been stated that they are simply inheriting the two names that has belonged to two "pioneer" ships that served the Royal Australian Navy and its precedessor, like how the Australian Darings are named after ships of the "Scrap Iron Flotilla" in real life

Quote

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/499

The cruiser (Encounter) inherited its name from one of the first ships of the Royal Australian Navy (a protected cruiser launched back in 1902) and joined the newly formed Royal Australian Navy in 1912.

...

The ship (Cerberus) is named after one of the pioneers of the Australian Navy (Her Majesty's Victorian Ship Cerberus) built in the late 1860s for the naval forces of the Colony of Victoria. She served in Australian waters for more than half of a century.

As for countries, INS Delhi, HMAS Encounter and HMAS Cerberus, the latter two judging from their aforementioned namesakes.

Edited February 23 by Project45_Opytny

[Ensign Cthulhu]

3 hours ago, tm63au said:

Commonwealth cruiser Cerberus

 

What country ?

Cerberus was originally a coast-defence ship built for the navy of the Colony of Victoria before Australia federated into a single nation. She is more appropriately HMVS (Her Majesty's Victorian Ship). Long since out of service, she was taken out and sunk rather than being scrapped. IIRC she can still be visited by divers, but due to her age - she's ancient enough to have been equipped with muzzle-loaders* - there's probably not much left of her now. 

 

Spoiler

* The Royal Navy hung on to muzzle loaders for quite some time after their initial rush to switch to breech-loaders went horribly wrong (design flaws and reliability/quality issues caused breech explosions), and stayed that way while many of their competitors switched. That being said, the power-loading systems in place for the last generation of rifled muzzle-loading guns meant that they weren't at the disadvantage compared to breech-loaders than might be imagined. What finally did them in was new powders making better use of longer barrels, which threatened to make muzzle loading too awkward to manage, plus the advent of better and more reliable breech designs. 

 

Edited February 23 by Ensign Cthulhu

[Snargfargle]

When you migrate from putting models of actual WWI to WWII-era ships in you game to making up ships you can pretty much name then whatever you want. Also, many of the surplus ships sold to other countries by the US and UK after WWII were renamed.

[Jakob Knight]

6 hours ago, tm63au said:

Commonwealth cruiser Red Fort

What country ? what is the significance of this name ?

 

Commonwealth cruiser Cerberus

 

What country ? this is the code name for the famous Kriegsmarine operation of The Brest Squadron sailing up the English Channel how does this even equate to the Commonwealth, can someone please tell me ?

 

Commonwealth cruiser Encounter

HMS Encounter was a Challenger-class protected cruiser launched in 1902. She was transferred to the Royal Australian Navy in 1919, renamed HMAS Penguin in 1923 while serving as a depot ship, and was scuttled in 1932.

 

HMS Encounter (H10) was an E-class destroyer launched in 1934 and sunk in 1942.

  

 HMAS Encounter is a Royal Australian Navy (RAN) naval base located in Birkenhead, South Australia. 

So this Tier IX ship is going to be a hybrid of 1902 Armoured Cruiser , a British E class DD and Naval land base ? WOW cant wait to see this ships graphics

 

Do the DEVs just open a page on Janes Fighting Ships close there eyes and then put there finger down on the page and hope it lands on a ship name ? 

 

When the United Kingdom formally withdrew from the Commonwealth (or was thrown out after a particularly riotous tea party, depending on who you listen to), the four nations of the Commonwealth faced a serious problem...they had only a few Destroyer classes for patrol work in limited production, and even fewer Cruisers.  Their attempt to come up with their own indigenous Battleship class met international controversy and the yards to produce it in quantity just weren't ready yet.  With the expansion of the Pan-Asian Protectorate Navy and flood of foreign naval warships into the Pacific chasing the newly-accessible islands of the Fall, it was clear a dedicated Navy would need to formed to keep the Commonwealth's interests at the table.

 

Almost immediately, however, Canada and India began arguing over their claims of being the best nation to lead such a force.  Hot curry and bowls of poutine were hurled repeatedly across the tables at the meetings to discuss the matter, until the Australian representative had enough and got both of his contemporaries in a headlock.  With silent consent from his colleague from New Zealand, the diplomat pointed out that Australia was the only reasonable place to build the new ships, and they had experts trained by the Royal Navy standing by to do the work.

 

Thus did the new line of Commonwealth Cruisers come into being.  Unwilling to risk more headlocks (or worse), the designs for the most modern and challenging classes of these new warships were left to Australian shipwrights to develop, who brought many ideas the Royal Navy had scoffed at to reality.   The naming of these ships, likewise, were left in the hands of the people from down-under, who wished to honor past ships of theirs now long past.

 

Of particular note, while the Cerebus class does honor to a previous pioneer ship of the Australian Navy and also a mythological figure that guarded the gateway to Hades, it was also the name of the pet Bull Arab of the lead designer.  Rumors have circulated that the name was adopted after a Naval Requisition officer found himself on the wrong end of a very annoyed hound and the lead designer commented "Yer don't want ta be messin wit dat one.  Cerebus be a-hungry for a blue".  

 

 

[invicta2012]

The Red Fort is a historic landmark in Delhi:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Fort

And the ship, as has been said, is a testing version of INS Delhi

 

Port Jackson is the original name of Sydney, they've used it because the ship they've made is not quite the original Town class HMS Sydney. 

[Lord_Slayer]

7 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Cerberus was originally a coast-defence ship built for the navy of the Colony of Victoria before Australia federated into a single nation. She is more appropriately HMVS (Her Majesty's Victorian Ship). Long since out of service, she was taken out and sunk rather than being scrapped. IIRC she can still be visited by divers, but due to her age - she's ancient enough to have been equipped with muzzle-loaders* - there's probably not much left of her now. 

Still there.
Australian's are trying to save it (somehow).

Personally I think it would only be 'saved' if it was recovered, but.......they seem to be trying to preserve it in place.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

5 hours ago, Lord_Slayer said:

Still there.
Australian's are trying to save it (somehow).

Personally I think it would only be 'saved' if it was recovered, but.......they seem to be trying to preserve it in place.

That would be outstanding. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

Interesting topic.

[Snargfargle]

Speaking of naming ships:

"Gus Grissom, hoping to avoid duplication of the experience with his Mercury flight Liberty Bell 7 in which the capsule sank after splashdown, named the Gemini 3 spacecraft Molly Brown, in a playful reference to the Broadway musical The Unsinkable Molly Brown. NASA management did not like this name, and asked him to change it. Grissom replied, "How about the Titanic?". The managers relented and allowed Grissom to keep Molly Brown, but this was the last Gemini flight they allowed the astronauts to name."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini_3

 

Edited February 24 by Snargfargle

[Lord_Slayer]

17 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

Speaking of naming ships:

"Gus Grissom, hoping to avoid duplication of the experience with his Mercury flight Liberty Bell 7 in which the capsule sank after splashdown, named the Gemini 3 spacecraft Molly Brown, in a playful reference to the Broadway musical The Unsinkable Molly Brown. NASA management did not like this name, and asked him to change it. Grissom replied, "How about the Titanic?". The managers relented and allowed Grissom to keep Molly Brown, but this was the last Gemini flight they allowed the astronauts to name."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gemini_3

 

At work (once upon a time) we had to test CPE (customer premise equipment) on site before it got contracted out (and the dept got contracted itself).

We had two machines designed to test the equipment functions, but it was new and didn't work as advertised. One worked better then the other, but still had alot of issues.
So one day I got tired of referring to the machines as One and Two and put names to them.

The one that mostly worked was called 'Hindenburg' and the other was called 'Titanic'.

The names were generally kept in-house, until one day on a call about them, our Supervisor referred to them by name. Someone from the company that made them asked, wait, what did you call it? When told the names, the company rep replied with 'Oh wow.......'

Eventually both machines began doing the work as designed.

We later got a third machine that did not work on arrival. It was christened 'Costa Concordia'.

[Project45_Opytny]

On 2/24/2024 at 4:23 AM, invicta2012 said:

Port Jackson is the original name of Sydney, they've used it because the ship they've made is not quite the original Town class HMS Sydney. 

I have also been wondered about that for a while, until realizing that the historical Australian town-class belongs to a later subgroup of the World War I Town-class family that can be properly be called light (instead of protected, in contrast to Weymouth) cruisers. And given their current troubles, it is plausible that the developers just decided to go the "hypothetical" route instead of making more modelling and testing efforts on a ship that would be scarcely played ever.

[invicta2012]

7 minutes ago, Project45_Opytny said:

have also been wondered about that for a while, until realizing that the historical Australian town-class belongs to a later subgroup of the World War I Town-class family that can be properly be called light (instead of protected, in contrast to Weymouth) cruisers. And given their current troubles, it is plausible that the developers just decided to go the "hypothetical" route instead of making more modelling and testing efforts on a ship that would be scarcely played ever.

I'm actually really disappointed.... I was looking for a Sydney to go with Emden, and an event themed around them would be fun.. The Chatham/Bristol type cruisers are also hugely significant in the development of all RN cruisers so it would have been great to have one in the game. Instead WG have taken a short cut.

[Aethervox]

On 2/23/2024 at 8:58 AM, Jakob Knight said:

Hot curry and bowls of poutine

LOL

[Aethervox]

On 2/23/2024 at 12:23 PM, invicta2012 said:

The Red Fort is a historic landmark in Delhi:

TY, I knew it is a real place, just couldn't recall where.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

On 2/23/2024 at 11:52 PM, Snargfargle said:

The managers relented and allowed Grissom to keep Molly Brown, but this was the last Gemini flight they allowed the astronauts to name.

This is the point at which said managers should have been sacked in disgrace and never allowed to even look at a spacecraft or have charge over other human beings again. 

[Snargfargle]

15 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

This is the point at which said managers should have been sacked in disgrace and never allowed to even look at a spacecraft or have charge over other human beings again. 

 

Edited February 25 by Snargfargle

[Wolfswetpaws]

28 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

This is the point at which said managers should have been sacked in disgrace and never allowed to even look at a spacecraft or have charge over other human beings again. 

"A lucky shot, sir!" - last words of a Klingon gunner, in "Star Trek III:  The Search for Spock".

Edited to add:  https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Kruge's_Bird-of-Prey_personnel#Gunner_001

Edited February 25 by Wolfswetpaws

[Gaelic_knight]

the term commonwealth  started of being the colonian countries at the time of WWI & WWII  of the united kingdom  so  during the war period we refer mostly to  canada, austrailia , new zeland and india  but also countries in africa   and asian smaller countries so the amount of countries that came under the crown at the time  would fight for king and country  . although many countries have now become independent  they still remail in the commonwealth  in which the late queen elizabeth II  built up and  made the commenwealth  bigger and more resoursefull than ever 

 

 

[Nevermore135]

On 2/25/2024 at 4:24 AM, Project45_Opytny said:

I have also been wondered about that for a while, until realizing that the historical Australian town-class belongs to a later subgroup of the World War I Town-class family that can be properly be called light (instead of protected, in contrast to Weymouth) cruisers. And given their current troubles, it is plausible that the developers just decided to go the "hypothetical" route instead of making more modelling and testing efforts on a ship that would be scarcely played ever.

The devs probably are simply saving the “HMAS Sydney” name for a higher tier premium ship they can sell at a later time. Perth already exists, so I would say seeing her sister is less likely than the Majestic-class HMAS Sydney appearing as the Commonwealth’s first CV.

Edit: quoted the wrong person. Meant to also quote @invicta2012.

Edited February 26 by Nevermore135

[Gaelic_knight]

8 hours ago, Nevermore135 said:

 

The devs probably are simply saving the “HMAS Sydney” name for a higher tier premium ship they can sell at a later time. Perth already exists, so I would say seeing her sister is less likely than the Majestic-class HMAS Sydney appearing as the Commonwealth’s first CV.

although the real HMAS Sydney was a cruiser  sunk by a german commers ship  that was a raider  and both are sitting at the bottom of the ocean   . you can find that history  from the disney programe drain the ocean 

[Nevermore135]

9 hours ago, Gaelic_knight said:

although the real HMAS Sydney was a cruiser  sunk by a german commers ship  that was a raider  and both are sitting at the bottom of the ocean   . you can find that history  from the disney programe drain the ocean 

There were in fact three “real” ships that went by “HMAS Sydney” during the period of time covered by World of Warships.

1) The Town-class cruiser commissioned in 1912 and decommissioned in 1928.

2) The Leander-class (Amphion-subclass) cruiser famous for her battle with Kormoran. This is the sister to Perth that I made reference to above.

3) The Majestic-class light carrier, which was sold incomplete to Australia in 1947 and entered service the following year.

Edited February 26 by Nevermore135