Andrewbassg Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) I kept saying (and warning) about the wrongness in Wedgie's plan to dumb down the game, to transform it into just another "crappy shooty arcadiy boat game", in order to appeal to the masses, while alienating the dedicated ,long standing players, who would actually support the game. Removing the elements which set his game apart from other ones, soviet sovcom style refusal to address long standing issues of the game( "you didn't see graphite coz its not there!!") in many cases outright treating us with clear and visible contempt and the list can go on and on..... Well... the playerbase's quality took an enormous hit. as a result of their idiocies masquerading as cleverness, their laziness and their down looking upon us by ignoring ALL the well intended feedback, reasonable critique and good willed advice. GG WEEGEE....... Edited February 22 by HogHammer Descriptive language edit 7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral_Karasu Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Maybe it's a secret plan intended to make us start playing WoWP? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel_Allan_Clark Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Yuro was right when he pointed out that the CV rework was really intended to rework the playerbase... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArIskandir Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 hours ago, Andrewbassg said: I kept saying (and warning) about the wrongness in Wedgie's plan to dumb down the game, to transform it into just another "crappy shooty arcadiy boat game", Too late my friend, the Market won that fight. I can't watch a Youtube vid without having a dozen Ads for games too stupid to play (gosh I really hate the Hero Wars Ads... so fcking long), WoWS included... games for idiots is the future. Btw, have you noticed how the latest trend for games Ads is showcasing the stupidest, most moronic ways to play the game... stuff like 2+2=5... the future is here and it's full of idiots. 4 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asym Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Let's be honest, it's all they have left after the divorce. What else is there to really say.....? Other than, this game will go on the same way so many other Mature games have gone: a stalled population with endless clones of everything amidst a negative earnings player economy.... Oy Vey, that's bad. A player economy that simply chases new players away from some very strong IP titles !!! What the heck are they doing? Could it be intentional? It's like the game is bi-polar: one of very highest IP identification rating - being run by people whom have no idea what that means..... Ergo, it's being driven into the ground for absolutely no reason. Yes, they lost all of the high tech creative staff in the divorce. Yes, the need to make money...... But, taking an attitude of "Let them Eat Cake" simply is so bizarre I can't even guess as to why they'd do such a stupid thing !!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin1954 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, Andrewbassg said: I kept saying (and warning) about the wrongness in Wedgie's plan to dumb down the game, to transform it into just another "shitty shooty arcadiy boat game", in order to appeal to the masses, while alienating the dedicated ,long standing players, who would actually support the game. Removing the elements which set his game apart from other ones, soviet sovcom style refusal to address long standing issues of the game( "you didn't see graphite coz its not there!!") in many cases outright treating us with clear and visible contempt and the list can go on and on..... Well... the playerbase's quality took an enormous hit. as a result of their idiocies masquerading as cleverness, their laziness and their down looking upon us by ignoring ALL the well intended feedback, reasonable critique and good willed advice. GG WEEGEE....... You're correct in this. WeeGee doesn't give a rats backside about veteran players. Just looking at team rosters in coop for the past few weeks I'm seeing lots of new baby seals and inactives with low battle numbers coming back. Business model working as intented. Just keep hyping and churning out new players and bring back the old, by waving shiny new thingys at then. Server population doesn't seem to be suffering either. I only play mornings and even during the weekdays it's close to or slightly over 4 thousand on the NA server with over 6 on weekends. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakob Knight Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) What do you expect when those of us asking not to have the game dumbed down are shouted out of earshot by the players who feel having to think and act as a team is unfair? The downturn started a long time before the Rework when players complained so loudly about having to rely on their teammates and not being able to see DDs on their own encouraged WG to put in Radar and give a pushbutton solution to eliminate a challenge in the game. Elimination of open water firing, smoke screen firing, and all the changes since intended to remove the need for the player to think their way out of difficulty at the behest of the players have resulted in the game we now have today. Why would anyone be unhappy that they have gotten what they asked for? Edited February 22 by Jakob Knight 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensign Cthulhu Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 11 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said: The downturn started a long time before the Rework when players complained so loudly about having to rely on their teammates and not being able to see DDs on their own encouraged WG to put in Radar and give a pushbutton solution to eliminate a challenge in the game. Elimination of open water firing, smoke screen firing, and all the changes since intended to remove the need for the player to think their way out of difficulty at the behest of the players have resulted in the game we now have today. And those same players still scream bloody murder because "Wargaming never listens to feedback". This is what they wanted; this is what they got. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torino2dc Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 2 hours ago, Andrewbassg said: Wedgie's plan to dumb down the game Since WoWS has an ever-expanding set content, every new patch represents the game at the most complex that it's ever been. There are 700+ ships to memorize in terms of armament, armor, consumables, concealment, maneuverability -- even super dedicated players have a hard time keeping it all in their heads. Perhaps you could list some examples to support your claim, otherwise this whole thread is not really productive. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakob Knight Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 7 minutes ago, torino2dc said: Since WoWS has an ever-expanding set content, every new patch represents the game at the most complex that it's ever been. There are 700+ ships to memorize in terms of armament, armor, consumables, concealment, maneuverability -- even super dedicated players have a hard time keeping it all in their heads. Perhaps you could list some examples to support your claim, otherwise this whole thread is not really productive. While I realize you're directing your question at @Andrewbassg, I will give you an example that is very relevant to your own statement. WG put in the last patch or so the listing of every system and option available to any ship in the match, eliminating the need to memorize the abilities of individual ships that had been required before. So, the complexity and challenge of the game has been lessened very recently even in the argument you put forth for it getting more complex. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlooky Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 15 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said: While I realize you're directing your question at @Andrewbassg, I will give you an example that is very relevant to your own statement. WG put in the last patch or so the listing of every system and option available to any ship in the match, eliminating the need to memorize the abilities of individual ships that had been required before. So, the complexity and challenge of the game has been lessened very recently even in the argument you put forth for it getting more complex. I fail to see how rote memorization is a challenge. Knowing a ship's capabilities does not grant you the knowledge of how to outplay it. All this information and some extra information was all available previously with mods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 9 minutes ago, torino2dc said: Perhaps you could list some examples to support your claim, otherwise this whole thread is not really productive. Productive? You mean reversing a 3-4 year process? Umm...... Well.... let's start with the basics. Nobody can address a problem , unless is aware of it, recognize it as such and is capable of ranking it, in terms of severity Only then one can hope to "fix" it. As general rule all things entertainment ( which obviously includes games) must possess a crucial property called: APPEAL. That's what breaks or build "things"( followers, participants., fans aka MARKET) .It is very important to note and to know that contradicting appeals are never a good thing and at all times care must be taken to NOT favor one over the other, because it will create gaps, contradictions, conflicts. They all divide and NOT unite. (Note: do not confound competition and rivalry with the former. Healthy rivalry is VERY good and desirable) So....why people play videogames and why choose one in particular ? 1. Are attracted to the basic premise aka setting. 2. Are attracted by the visuals. 3.Are attracted by the complexity/simplicity (here we have a contradiction , tho it can be balanced . More about it later) 4.Are attracted by the additional content. 5. Are attracted by the playerbase itself. 6. Are attracted by the developers attitude. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clammboy Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jakob Knight said: WG put in the last patch or so the listing of every system and option available to any ship in the match, eliminating the need to memorize the abilities of individual ships that had been required before. So, the complexity and challenge of the game has been lessened very recently even in the argument you put forth for it getting more complex. If you really want new players and we keep complaining they need help to learn the game then it's not a bad idea listing ships tools. I would say it's much harder now then when I started in 2016 to figure out and keep up with 700 ships. Just the sheer number of ships with different diverse weapons like, radar, Hydro, planes, different arming torps, Subs, CVs, air strikes, Dutch cruiser, smoke, AP, HE, Sap. It's a lot to memorize. I think for beginners and even players with experience or casual players this is far from an easy game. Sorry but it's really not like when we started. I think it can be a little over whelming to new players as well as casual players at times . A little help is not a bad thing. I would think maybe it could help and most of us veterans already know the specs of ships anyway. So it's not really hurting anyone IMHO only maybe helping the new players the game is going to need. Edited February 22 by clammboy 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 (edited) 1. In Wows that is seemingly pretty clear. Ships that attack other ships, while trying to survive and complete the objectives . There are different classes of them with different playstyles, mechanics, stregtths and weaknesses. And because of those differences the game "balances itself" and while it seems unequal...it is not. And we have the first conflicts, Cv's and subs. Much debates and discussions have been around and about them.,still it is important to understand the problems what they've created and still create to this day . Addressing those problems.... was late the day before yesterday. Soo.. Why people play Cv's? 1. They like planes. 2. Are attracted to their battle influence. 3.Are attracted to their different, fast paced playstyle. 4. Are attracted to them, because they don't have to participate in the survival game and they have all sort of artificial protections in place. And oh boy.....that alone creates an inane number and magnitude times of conflicts and contradictions. a) Directly contradicts the very basic setting and premise of the game ( 1) in a LOT more than one way. b) Directly creates conflicts and toxicity within the playerbase (5) c) Directly undermines the players relation with the devs (6) Subs...... the biggest problems are 1. The pinging mechanic (1) (5) (6) 2. Subs can't hunt each other(!!???!!) (1) (5) (6) 3.Shotgunning (1) (5) (6) ( the number() represents what appeals those issues contradict) Edited February 22 by Andrewbassg 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thornzero Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 New players playing solo have no chance due to impatient veterans screaming at them to get good but not allowing for the time to do so. I've realised that getting good takes a few thousand pvp matches. Depending on the player, this could take awhile. And there are plenty of veterans in the playerbase with 1o's of thousands of matches and 4o% win rates. Who's telling them to pack it up? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 (edited) 5 minutes ago, thornzero said: Who's telling them to pack it up Nobody. But how about some leagues with the possibility of those of higher ones to choose? It will create desire to promote among other things. Aka incentive and desirable rivalry. Edited February 22 by Andrewbassg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakob Knight Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 48 minutes ago, clammboy said: If you really want new players and we keep complaining they need help to learn the game then it's not a bad idea listing ships tools. I would say it's much harder now then when I started in 2016 to figure out and keep up with 700 ships. Just the sheer number of ships with different diverse weapons like, radar, Hydro, planes, different arming torps, Subs, CVs, air strikes, Dutch cruiser, smoke, AP, HE, Sap. It's a lot to memorize. I think for beginners and even players with experience or casual players this is far from an easy game. Sorry but it's really not like when we started. I think it can be a little over whelming to new players as well as casual players at times . A little help is not a bad thing. I would think maybe it could help and most of us veterans already know the specs of ships anyway. So it's not really hurting anyone IMHO only maybe helping the new players the game is going to need. When I started, there were fewer ships, true. However, there were also fewer shortcuts available to a player to circumvent having to consider what they were facing and how to face it, there were next to no guides or the Wiki, the game itself had quite a few more mechanics that have since been removed, and all battles were against other players. It has never been an easy game, nor should it ever be. It is meant to be a challenge to play, or it fails in its purpose. It didn't overwhelm me, and so I can't see it overwhelming anyone else who starts play now. It's entirely a matter of the mindset of the player and their drive to learn. And, no. I don't know the specs of any ships but my own. I do have a feel for the various types of ships and what to expect from them in a general way, and that is what allows me to play against anyone or anything. It is something anyone is capable of acquiring if they wish to develop their gameplay, especially with the simplified game we play these days. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 1 hour ago, torino2dc said: Since WoWS has an ever-expanding set content, every new patch represents the game at the most complex that it's ever been. Btw that 's not as simple as you seem to imply and is also entirelly dependent on the pov. Content is much MUCH more than just..... more ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted February 22 Author Share Posted February 22 27 minutes ago, thornzero said: New players playing solo have no chance due to impatient veterans screaming at them to get good but not allowing for the time to do so Btw that is entirelly Wedgie's own making. On one hand by removing a very helpful and learning tool also mode (operations) also restricitng special modes to higher tiers and by making the "'veterans" impatient by mixing them with newcomers, while also introducing unbalanced ergo conflict creating factors into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 (edited) Since mentioned ops, lets take a closer look at the ops rework and in how many ways it was an abysmal failure and how does relate to the original post. Before: pros: - and interesting and engaging mode - an useful learning tool (because was on a weekly rotation) for ships, mechanics, teamplay, etc - an incentive to buy ships of different tiers - a semicozy mode with better rewards than coop - people knew what to expect (that was actually a big appeal point) - incentive to div up cons: - repetitive (because of the weekly rotation) - some ops tended to be avoided - there were few of them. After: pros: - an interesting and engaging mode. - more of them - an incentive to buy T8 ships cons: - effective removal of its function as a learning tool . Completely. - there is absolutely no reason to buy lower than T8 ships. In fact is highly contraindicated - people don't know what to expect. - incentive to div up removed - a challenging mode with high skill requirement. - its randomness is highly questionable (routinely one could get the same op even 3-4 times in a row) Before ,I routinely took out many many ships and learn them, devise differing tactics for them and yes even buy ships dedicated for ops. Even Cv;s!! Nowadays I play the same 2-3 ships, which I knew will perform no matter in what ops i get or with who'm I paired. So instead of achieving a diversity in gameplay the very opposite has happened. Because Wedgie not only didn't understood this mode and its impact, but......also didn't cared. Edited February 23 by Andrewbassg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunkCostFallacy Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 6 hours ago, Asym said: It's like the game is bi-polar: one of very highest IP identification rating - being run by people whom have no idea what that means..... Ergo, it's being driven into the ground for absolutely no reason. It's the Hollywood method of IP 'development' mate Like Hollywood, the people in charge of the many gaming IPs have decided to pursue a 'new audience' at the expense of the existing established fanbase. It hasn't gone well 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 7 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said: Maybe it's a secret plan intended to make us start playing WoWP? 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 8 hours ago, Andrewbassg said: I kept saying (and warning) about the wrongness in Wedgie's plan to dumb down the game, to transform it into just another "crappy shooty arcadiy boat game", in order to appeal to the masses, while alienating the dedicated ,long standing players, who would actually support the game. Removing the elements which set his game apart from other ones, soviet sovcom style refusal to address long standing issues of the game( "you didn't see graphite coz its not there!!") in many cases outright treating us with clear and visible contempt and the list can go on and on..... Well... the playerbase's quality took an enormous hit. as a result of their idiocies masquerading as cleverness, their laziness and their down looking upon us by ignoring ALL the well intended feedback, reasonable critique and good willed advice. GG WEEGEE....... Meanwhile, Submarines are nerfed to cater to a portion of the playerbase. 🤔 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrewbassg Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said: Meanwhile, Submarines are nerfed to cater to a portion of the playerbase. 🤔 No, they are not. They are merely touched, at best, while not addressing the key issues. Edited February 23 by Andrewbassg 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 12 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said: No, they are not. They are merely touched, at best, while not addressing the key issues. Submarines now have a more difficult time sinking their opponents, while most of their opponents now have an easier time of sinking submarines or at least surviving a submarine's attack(s). 2 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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