Jakeshuffle Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 I'm trying to think deeper with the game, and it's going...so so. I got the legendary mod for the Zao and I was thinking about uses for both torpedo types on the ship. Are the quicker reload / shorter range torpedoes meant for deterring destroyers? I'm honestly god awful with torpedoes in general and I'd like to get better. Am I overthinking it with the Zao and the better ones are the longer-range torpedoes anyways? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 18 minutes ago, Jakeshuffle said: I'm trying to think deeper with the game, and it's going...so so. I got the legendary mod for the Zao and I was thinking about uses for both torpedo types on the ship. Are the quicker reload / shorter range torpedoes meant for deterring destroyers? I'm honestly god awful with torpedoes in general and I'd like to get better. Am I overthinking it with the Zao and the better ones are the longer-range torpedoes anyways? I'm guessing there are some "schools of thought" involved. So, the decision may depend upon the game-mode in question and your play-style preferences. I'll try to be succinct. 1. Playing the Zao as a 'plus-sized' torpedo destroyer = avoiding detection and using the 20 km torpedoes by sending them into areas where you anticipate the opposing ships will travel. This involves reading and predicting opposition movements well enough that you'll score a hit or two with the right timing and a bit of luck. (This is a method which I feel is often used in random battles and similar game modes wherein most player are trying to score damage from extreme ranges.) 2. If one intends to sail into Co-op battle modes, then fast-loading/reloading torpedoes are preferable. Time is of the essence and avoiding detection is less important. One may anticpate geting into brawling and point-blank firing ranges because of the aggressive enthusiasm often utilized in Co-op battles. Essentially, if one doesn't play aggressively, then expect the team-mates to harvest the damage and sinkings sooner and more often. 3. The Zao isn't known for being able to take a figurative punch. But, her guns can do a fair amount of damage, especially if most of the projectiles in a salvo hit a target. Some people like to sail the Zao in a manner that uses terrain and timing to fire the guns at a target and quickly become undetected by sailing behind an island. Or use the island as a shield to prevent being caught in a cross-fire and engage only one opposing ship which they're confident of having some success with. (Granted, this principle can be utilized by many ships to some degree or another.) As for the Zao's torpedo launching arcs, which are similar to the Myoko and the Aoba? Well, a player needs to show a lot of broadside to bring the torpedoes to bear, and most opponents will know this. If a Zao performs a torpedo launch while being observed by the opposition, then the opposition may have time to evade the salvo. Thus, I suggest that the Zao perform her torpedo launches from stealth, or from a position wherein the opposition hasn't enough time & distance to evade. Hope that helps. I imagine that other people will add their thoughts and successful methods in other posts as this topic progresses. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utt_Bugglier Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1. Zao is not the ship to be learning better torpedo tactics with. You’ll learn that better, in general, with a destroyer. 2. Dump the Zao UU (they’re no longer “legendary” in performance, and WG has dropped that name.) It “gives” you 8% range, but it takes away 16% range, since it occupies Slot 6, where the regular range mod is. So, it forces you to play in closer, and gives no maneuverability improvement in return. Yeah, a little dispersion boost. BFD; Zao’s dispersion is rather good without it.Some upgrade. You might as well paint the hull into big billboard saying ”I’VE BEEN A BAD GIRL SPANK ME HARD DADDY” on it. Zao has a long hull, you can use a nice big font size for it. 3. But to answer your question. Go with the Type 93 torpedoes. Longer range means ability to fire from stealth. More damage, and they get slightly closer before detection. Torpedoes with Zao aren’t often successful as a planned tactic, but are more a “crime of opportunity” weapon. My biggest ever hit/devstrike is still 86k on a Montana with Zao torpedoes, but it took an island and DD smoke to drop them unspotted, very late in a battle. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakeshuffle Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 (edited) Stealth torpedoes with Type93, got it! This question was with Randoms in mind. Since I am used to having radar with Des Moines I wasn't sure if the faster reload torpedoes would help keep destroyers away from me. Does the LegMod make the dispersion "too much of a good thing" with diminishing returns in comparison to the 8% range? Edited February 17 by Jakeshuffle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 12 minutes ago, Jakeshuffle said: I wasn't sure if the faster reload torpedoes would help keep destroyers away from me. The Zao's guns reload much faster than her torpedoes. DDs are pretty good at dodging torpedoes (or, are at least much better than the Zao is at dodging torpedoes). So, as @Utt_Bugglier mentioned, unless you have a "crime of opportunity" situation, I figure the guns will be more often involved in sinking DD's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Type_93 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 2 hours ago, Jakeshuffle said: I'm trying to think deeper with the game, and it's going...so so. I got the legendary mod for the Zao and I was thinking about uses for both torpedo types on the ship. Are the quicker reload / shorter range torpedoes meant for deterring destroyers? I'm honestly god awful with torpedoes in general and I'd like to get better. Am I overthinking it with the Zao and the better ones are the longer-range torpedoes anyways? Zao is a kiting ship. Your torpedos are best used in that role. If you are getting close enough to us F3’s you’re not play her to her best abilities. You want to engage from range, land a few salvos of HE and go dark. Find a new position once your target isn’t looking for you and open up again. Use your 12k torps for area denial. If you’re being chased you want to use your torpedos to keep the ship chasing you changing direction. Your guns are a much better deterrent to DDs than torpedos. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 19 minutes ago, Type_93 said: Zao is a kiting ship. Your torpedos are best used in that role. If you are getting close enough to us F3’s you’re not play her to her best abilities. You want to engage from range, land a few salvos of HE and go dark. Find a new position once your target isn’t looking for you and open up again. Use your 12k torps for area denial. If you’re being chased you want to use your torpedos to keep the ship chasing you changing direction. Your guns are a much better deterrent to DDs than torpedos. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itwastuesday Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 The torpedoes have godawful launch angles so any sort of short-range engagement is quite risky. And the only reasonable purpose of the ship is to bomb subs anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchoolGaming_Youtube Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 7 hours ago, Jakeshuffle said: I'm trying to think deeper with the game, and it's going...so so. I got the legendary mod for the Zao and I was thinking about uses for both torpedo types on the ship. Are the quicker reload / shorter range torpedoes meant for deterring destroyers? I'm honestly god awful with torpedoes in general and I'd like to get better. Am I overthinking it with the Zao and the better ones are the longer-range torpedoes anyways? Been a while since I touched Zao for obvious reasons (been powercrept and forgotten for year), but usually you want the 12 km torps on Zao because Zao usually dont fair well being to close to overmatching BBs. Zao is a "long" range fire spammer and torps is used more as area denial than actual weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocqueville8 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 5 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said: Playing the Zao as a 'plus-sized' torpedo destroyer = avoiding detection and using the 20 km torpedoes by sending them into areas where you anticipate the opposing ships will travel. Wait, what? Zao's torpedo options are 8 km or 12 km. You're thinking Yoshino or Shimakaze. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocqueville8 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) 6 hours ago, Jakeshuffle said: Are the quicker reload / shorter range torpedoes meant for deterring destroyers? It's simple: the quicker reload / shorter range torps are for Coop or Brawls, maybe for Ranked where brawling is more common. Randoms? 12 km for sure. The extra range makes them less situational, while faster reload is kind of pointless on the 8 km ones, since they're...situational. Edited February 17 by tocqueville8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utt_Bugglier Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 3 hours ago, tocqueville8 said: … maybe for Ranked… Maybe for someone more skilled than me. I find that I have to still stay at range in Zao in ranked, and can’t be in close enough to have utility to help actually win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfswetpaws Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 15 hours ago, tocqueville8 said: 22 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said: Playing the Zao as a 'plus-sized' torpedo destroyer = avoiding detection and using the 20 km torpedoes by sending them into areas where you anticipate the opposing ships will travel. Wait, what? Zao's torpedo options are 8 km or 12 km. You're thinking Yoshino or Shimakaze. Thanks for the correction. 🙂 https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Zao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ensign Cthulhu Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 21 hours ago, Jakeshuffle said: This question was with Randoms in mind. In Randoms, Type 93. In co-op, F3. You never fire torps with any hope of hitting what you fire at at much more than 4 or 5km in co-op anyway, and the F3s load MUCH faster: ~ 100 seconds vs 170. You want them back sooner. In Randoms you're mostly using your guns, the probability of hitting something at max range is much higher (because humans don't have torpedo Spidey sense the minute they leave the rack), and the slower reload time isn't a handicap, plus the < 8km shots with F3s are not as easy to get in Randoms without having your citadel blown out in return, and you're arguably likely to use them LESS. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utt_Bugglier Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 On 2/17/2024 at 10:28 AM, Jakeshuffle said: Does the LegMod make the dispersion "too much of a good thing" with diminishing returns in comparison to the 8% range? Well, the fact that Zao’s dispersion is pretty good to start with, makes it more of a “point of diminishing returns” thing. The fact that range gets taken away (by virtue of having to give up a range build) brings a “less of a good thing” element to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBTHEBALL Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 On 2/18/2024 at 2:51 AM, Jakeshuffle said: I'm trying to think deeper with the game, and it's going...so so. I got the legendary mod for the Zao and I was thinking about uses for both torpedo types on the ship. Are the quicker reload / shorter range torpedoes meant for deterring destroyers? I'm honestly god awful with torpedoes in general and I'd like to get better. Am I overthinking it with the Zao and the better ones are the longer-range torpedoes anyways? Use the longer range ones, they're better. Also nice work LM is good! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakeshuffle Posted March 30 Author Share Posted March 30 On 2/17/2024 at 10:18 AM, Utt_Bugglier said: 2. Dump the Zao UU (they’re no longer “legendary” in performance, and WG has dropped that name.) It “gives” you 8% range, but it takes away 16% range, since it occupies Slot 6, where the regular range mod is. So, it forces you to play in closer, and gives no maneuverability improvement in return. Yeah, a little dispersion boost. BFD; Zao’s dispersion is rather good without it.Some upgrade. You might as well paint the hull into big billboard saying ”I’VE BEEN A BAD GIRL SPANK ME HARD DADDY” on it. Zao has a long hull, you can use a nice big font size for it. I wanted to give you an update, after replaying the line again I have changed my mind and completely agree with you. Another item I didn't think about is that you don't want amazing dispersion because you want to also start fires. Any who, the thought came to me today and thought of this thread! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utt_Bugglier Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 (edited) 11 hours ago, Jakeshuffle said: I wanted to give you an update, after replaying the line again I have changed my mind and completely agree with you. Another item I didn't think about is that you don't want amazing dispersion because you want to also start fires. Any who, the thought came to me today and thought of this thread! Very kind of you to provide the feedback. I expect you’re potentially right - when the dispersion is “too pinpoint,” that there is the possibility that an HE hit that gets the RNG to otherwise start a fire, might be foiled by landing on the same section of a ship that already has one burning. Edited March 30 by Utt_Bugglier Typo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBTHEBALL Posted March 31 Share Posted March 31 On 2/17/2024 at 1:51 PM, Jakeshuffle said: I'm trying to think deeper with the game, and it's going...so so. I got the legendary mod for the Zao and I was thinking about uses for both torpedo types on the ship. Are the quicker reload / shorter range torpedoes meant for deterring destroyers? I'm honestly god awful with torpedoes in general and I'd like to get better. Am I overthinking it with the Zao and the better ones are the longer-range torpedoes anyways? 12km Torps 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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