Is it bad form...?

[meatgrindr]

  So say, hypothetically, you are playing Yorktown.  The enemy York is the only ship left.  Would it be bad form to smoke up the enemy York to maximize your own farming? 

[UnderTheRadarAgain]

Do it.

 

The player base hates CV spotting, so ... I don't see a problem with it at all.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

16 minutes ago, meatgrindr said:

  So say, hypothetically, you are playing Yorktown.  The enemy York is the only ship left.  Would it be bad form to smoke up the enemy York to maximize your own farming? 

It's selfish, and your fellow teammates won't feel like you were nice...

[GandalfTehGray]

Not sure how this helps you? It just gives the surface fleet time to get closer and everyone shoot it rather than the 2-3 ships. 

[Utt_Bugglier]

Love to be around when you throw away a win while you’re doing that.

[HamptonRoads]

If you're farming spotting damage, as long as you provide spotting for your team, then it seems fine.

Pretty much anything else is not.

[clammboy]

[Wolfswetpaws]

2 hours ago, meatgrindr said:

  So say, hypothetically, you are playing Yorktown.  The enemy York is the only ship left.  Would it be bad form to smoke up the enemy York to maximize your own farming? 

"I say, that's an interesting question."  😉 
  
 

[Captain_Rawhide]

If you don't mind bad karma, do what you want. 

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

7 hours ago, meatgrindr said:

  So say, hypothetically, you are playing Yorktown.  The enemy York is the only ship left.  Would it be bad form to smoke up the enemy York to maximize your own farming? 

Hypothetically ..... I would say such hypothetical player would be spoken/acting like a true CV Main.

Never met another class so OP in a game and so game deciding with enormous team-based tools in their ship acting so little like a team player. Its almost a Hallelujah moment the rare instances where a CV actually put fighters to protect you when you're trying to cap in a DD while being focused by the enemy CV. Or when a CV goes out of his way to avoid going for the big damage farm on a BB to instead go and spot an enemy DD that is wreaking havoc on a flank.

Its also fun all those games where youre team gets the 34% WR player in a Super CV while the reds get the 67% WR player. This wouldn't be such an issue if both where playing BBs, but when both are in Super CVs and the first end up last on the losing team (because they didn't have a CV) with 300 XP and the last end up on the nr 1 spot on the winning side with 4000 XP, you dont really know if you should laugh or cry. There should really be a WR% limit you need to reach before you could play T10 or T11 CVs in randoms, but that will never happen.

[Verytis]

Only if you lose.

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, Verytis said:

Only if you lose.

😄 

[Admiral_Karasu]

It is, but I assume everyone would do it anyway, so go ahead.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

13 hours ago, meatgrindr said:

Would it be bad form to smoke up the enemy York to maximize your own farming? 

As soon as you go in to attack, he's spotted for your team (at least until the CV spotting changes take effect) and open to be cross-map blapped by some lucky battleship who's got the range and the angle to make the shot. All you will get in that circumstance is the spotting damage.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

5 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

Hypothetically ..... I would say such hypothetical player would be spoken/acting like a true CV Main.

Never met another class so OP in a game and so game deciding with enormous team-based tools in their ship acting so little like a team player. Its almost a Hallelujah moment the rare instances where a CV actually put fighters to protect you when you're trying to cap in a DD while being focused by the enemy CV. Or when a CV goes out of his way to avoid going for the big damage farm on a BB to instead go and spot an enemy DD that is wreaking havoc on a flank.

Its also fun all those games where youre team gets the 34% WR player in a Super CV while the reds get the 67% WR player. This wouldn't be such an issue if both where playing BBs, but when both are in Super CVs and the first end up last on the losing team (because they didn't have a CV) with 300 XP and the last end up on the nr 1 spot on the winning side with 4000 XP, you dont really know if you should laugh or cry. There should really be a WR% limit you need to reach before you could play T10 or T11 CVs in randoms, but that will never happen.

Don't blame the CV player too much for his lack of team play...

WG development staff have worked for literal YEARS to remove team play options from the CV toolbox, or make them difficult and situational to use. The only way WG wants CV played (at last until the new USN line) has been pure damage farming.

I remain genuinely surprised they released a line built around actually decent fighters. I'm not surprised they haven't given CVs the real team play option, which would be dynamic fighters...

...but at least the USN line SHOULD be more focused on team play.

Now all the CV mains have to retrain their brains away from damage farming...

[ArIskandir]

6 hours ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

There should really be a WR% limit you need to reach before you could play T10 or T11 CVs in randoms,

Nah. The obvious logical solution is nobody should be able to wield such power... But what do I know about squeezing profit out of people.

[meatgrindr]

  So I've had this scenario happen twice this week.  Co op games, win not in question.  The first time, I had followed up an HE bomb attack on the stationary Yorktown with torp bombers, and while flying those to the target, I'm watching the rest of my team whittle down the CV to death, and I didn't get there in time for the attack run.  It made me think- if I had laid a curtain between my team ant the enemy CV, my team mates would not have been able to spot it until I was attacking, and farming something vs nothing.  I think I could have gotten at least a few more attacks in.  the second game, the enemy CV was tracking away from the remaining greens, I could have easily used this to my advantage.  Seems like a perverted use of smoke, but at the same time, I can see the temptation to do it.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

28 minutes ago, meatgrindr said:

  So I've had this scenario happen twice this week.  Co op games, win not in question.  The first time, I had followed up an HE bomb attack on the stationary Yorktown with torp bombers, and while flying those to the target, I'm watching the rest of my team whittle down the CV to death, and I didn't get there in time for the attack run.  It made me think- if I had laid a curtain between my team ant the enemy CV, my team mates would not have been able to spot it until I was attacking, and farming something vs nothing.  I think I could have gotten at least a few more attacks in.  the second game, the enemy CV was tracking away from the remaining greens, I could have easily used this to my advantage.  Seems like a perverted use of smoke, but at the same time, I can see the temptation to do it.

Hah!

The torpedo focused DDs will be unhappy that you 'stole' their damage...

...but as many PVE players have told me...in co-op, the enemy is your own fleet!

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

3 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Don't blame the CV player too much for his lack of team play...

WG development staff have worked for literal YEARS to remove team play options from the CV toolbox, or make them difficult and situational to use. The only way WG wants CV played (at last until the new USN line) has been pure damage farming.

I remain genuinely surprised they released a line built around actually decent fighters. I'm not surprised they haven't given CVs the real team play option, which would be dynamic fighters...

...but at least the USN line SHOULD be more focused on team play.

Now all the CV mains have to retrain their brains away from damage farming...

I dont really buy that. Sure WG has never tried to educate or even promote teamplay in this game. That said if a common CV player have brains he should understand that if a allied DD is trying to cap he might wanna fly there put some fighters down for protection (earn spotting damage) and maybe even try and dis-courage any reds trying to push said DD, in the spirit of playing the objective and actually secure the win.

But its much cooler to try and damage farm by just clicking the mouse and get a 15 000 rocket salva and 2 fires on a BB.

I think its totally up the the CV player, either you can just play solo and just try to break a new record for YT views .... OR you could use all that massive arsenal at your disposal to help the team win. I did this in a game not that long ago in Malta. Saw my team throwing so I went ahead and focused their 3 remaining DDs and killed them and we won. Not very sexy game ... 90 K damage done but I made sure we won that game. So its up the the player how to use ALL those tools.

 

15 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Hah!

The torpedo focused DDs will be unhappy that you 'stole' their damage...

...but as many PVE players have told me...in co-op, the enemy is your own fleet!

This I understand. Gotten reported by teammates in Coop after I do my Kleber (Kills/torp hits/damage) mission runs. Its not fun for a BB in coop when a Kleber yolos in and kill of 3-4 of the bots. 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

1 minute ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I dont really buy that. Sure WG has never tried to educate or even promote teamplay in this game. That said if a common CV player have brains he should understand that if a allied DD is trying to cap he might wanna fly there put some fighters down for protection (earn spotting damage) and maybe even try and dis-courage any reds trying to push said DD, in the spirit of playing the objective and actually secure the win.

We used to do that. Then WG nerfed our ability to spot or strike that DD by buffing air concealment.

WG made our fighters easy to shoot down so we can't leave fighters to spot him for long.

3 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

But its much cooler to try and damage farm by just clicking the mouse and get a 15 000 rocket salva and 2 fires on a BB.

Not just cooler, more effective at winning the match...since the enemy CV is also prevented from team plays and has to damage race you.

4 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I think its totally up the the CV player, either you can just play solo and just try to break a new record for YT views .... OR you could use all that massive arsenal at your disposal to help the team win. I did this in a game not that long ago in Malta. Saw my team throwing so I went ahead and focused their 3 remaining DDs and killed them and we won. Not very sexy game ... 90 K damage done but I made sure we won that game. So its up the the player how to use ALL those tools.

The guys who just damage farm for YT are rare.

I find most CV haters have no idea how the class works...to say nothing of the blatant campaign by WG staff to force damage farming to be the meta.

Take it from this old RTS CV main, one of the reasons for the CV rework was the meta shift from strike load outs to air superiority load outs.

There is a major reason why WG refuses to allow fighters to be powerful again...they absolutely want CVs just to be focused on damage farming.

The issue is WG staff...not the CV player.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

34 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

We used to do that. Then WG nerfed our ability to spot or strike that DD by buffing air concealment.

WG made our fighters easy to shoot down so we can't leave fighters to spot him for long.

 

I have ZERO problem focusing down 3 DDs and winning the match in a Malta, and thats a guy that started to play CV first time last year, 2023 (picks in another thread) sp I dont really see the issue. If you kno what wins games (securing caps and killing enemy DDs) you can do that in every CV. I even think you or another said that other T10 CVs was even better then Malta at it?

 

34 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Not just cooler, more effective at winning the match...since the enemy CV is also prevented from team plays and has to damage race you.

The guys who just damage farm for YT are rare.

 

How is tarted damage farming more efficient at winning matches?! Tell that to this World record holder in Nakhimov that lost the game

Damage farminig does Foook all to winning, just look at all those 400 K Thunderer/Conde matches online. Its good for XP and thats it. Good for Wining is taking out the entire DD population of the enemy team and the njust cap them out. Doesnt matter how good or cool the CV guys is he wont push in and cap like DDs.

 

34 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I find most CV haters have no idea how the class works...to say nothing of the blatant campaign by WG staff to force damage farming to be the meta.

Take it from this old RTS CV main, one of the reasons for the CV rework was the meta shift from strike load outs to air superiority load outs.

There is a major reason why WG refuses to allow fighters to be powerful again...they absolutely want CVs just to be focused on damage farming.

The issue is WG staff...not the CV player.

 

I dont buy that. Its easy to just blame WG and all their shortcomings. In the end its you who decide how you play. If I play DD which I mained since CBT, my damage farming comes second, securing the objective is always first ... because I like to actually win .... and thats why I get dumbstruck by all players who seems to have zero clue to what the actual game mode is and what objectives are and how to win (talking about 80% of the T10 playerbase). 

Loadout doesn't matter when we're talking about putting fighters over a cap where the allied DD is capping OR flying over and permaspotting 90% of the red DDs in this game with fooook all AA until they die (or just kill them with Malta rockets).

If I can manage with maybe 50 CV games under my belt I think an old RTS CV main can do same? Also with new US Support CVs it seems they get the fighters from hell that evaporate any enemy planes in sight.

 

 

 

 

 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

17 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

I dont buy that. Its easy to just blame WG and all their shortcomings. In the end its you who decide how you play. If I play DD which I mained since CBT, my damage farming comes second, securing the objective is always first ... because I like to actually win .... and thats why I get dumbstruck by all players who seems to have zero clue to what the actual game mode is and what objectives are and how to win (talking about 80% of the T10 playerbase). 

Loadout doesn't matter when we're talking about putting fighters over a cap where the allied DD is capping OR flying over and permaspotting 90% of the red DDs in this game with fooook all AA until they die (or just kill them with Malta rockets).

If I can manage with maybe 50 CV games under my belt I think an old RTS CV main can do same? Also with new US Support CVs it seems they get the fighters from hell that evaporate any enemy planes in sight.

Playing the objectives is always the way I play...and it's why I have decent win-rate in CVs despite not being all that skilled, as far as I can tell.

I used to be able to play the objectives with a lot more efficiency...but WG staff have steadily removed tools to do so, all in favor of increasing damage farming as an alternative meta.

If you talk to some of the unicums in win-rate for certain CVs, they will tell you that at certain times, the damage output capability of their ships is so high that they can go after big targets and kill them without having to deal with DDs. Super CVs would fall into this category, IMO.

Why worry about spotting context when you have such high damage output that you can just kill all the enemies yourself?

As for fighter consumables...you only get three per squadron, unless you took special modules...I often find that I run out of them before the match ends when using them for spotting. This is WG staff trying to force the damage farming meta.

The US support CVs are an interesting break from the previous behavior...but those fighters are not quite as 'from hell' as you think.

As far as I can see, they are not as tanky or numerous as Bearn fighters, which ARE the fighters from hell.

In my games with Independence, I find that very few enemy CV players allow themselves to lose more than one or two flights to my fighters per match. They quickly learn to avoid the static circles...and then the fact that USN Essex line fighters don't spot becomes a weakness.

None of this is the fault of the player. The players have no control over the broken design of the way that WG wants the class played.

You venting anger at players does nothing to solve the problems. Vent your anger at WG staff for encouraging and allowing stupid metas.

Edited February 15 by Daniel_Allan_Clark

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

15 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Playing the objectives is always the way I play...and it's why I have decent win-rate in CVs despite not being all that skilled, as far as I can tell.

I used to be able to play the objectives with a lot more efficiency...but WG staff have steadily removed tools to do so, all in favor of increasing damage farming as an alternative meta.

If you talk to some of the unicums in win-rate for certain CVs, they will tell you that at certain times, the damage output capability of their ships is so high that they can go after big targets and kill them without having to deal with DDs. Super CVs would fall into this category, IMO.

Why worry about spotting context when you have such high damage output that you can just kill all the enemies yourself?

As for fighter consumables...you only get three per squadron, unless you took special modules...I often find that I run out of them before the match ends when using them for spotting. This is WG staff trying to force the damage farming meta.

The US support CVs are an interesting break from the previous behavior...but those fighters are not quite as 'from hell' as you think.

As far as I can see, they are not as tanky or numerous as Bearn fighters, which ARE the fighters from hell.

In my games with Independence, I find that very few enemy CV players allow themselves to lose more than one or two flights to my fighters per match. They quickly learn to avoid the static circles...and then the fact that USN Essex line fighters don't spot becomes a weakness.

None of this is the fault of the player. The players have no control over the broken design of the way that WG wants the class played.

You venting anger at players does nothing to solve the problems. Vent your anger at WG staff for encouraging and allowing stupid metas.

What you pretty much are saying is that players are mindless lemmings (I agree to an extent) and cant control how they play but must play how WG (who doesnt even play their own game) tells them to play?

I CAN get angry at a T10-11 CV player that doesn't understand that if our team is loosing and me in my DD is trying to cap he might just fly there and support me instead of going for chip damage on a Yamato sitting on the 10-line. This should be a given!! Same as I can get angry at a T10 BB with full HP 16 min into the game and haven't even used first heals still hugging the border trying to cross into another game. You dont have to play like a potato head just because the game developers are.

Sure 3 fighters but then dont waste them on spotting a Des Moines for 4 seconds, instead use them when they effect something (like caps).

I dont think any Super Unicum in any Super CV can guarantee a win because they can "kill all the enemies by themselves", there is plenty of evidence on this on YT. If this was the case all SU would play Super CVs and have 100% WR.

 

[ArIskandir]

7 minutes ago, OldSchoolGaming_Youtube said:

This should be a given!!

What you pretty much are saying is all people must be rational and smart enough to understand an abstract objective and cooperate with other people to achieve a common goal... we know for a fact that's not the case or we would be living in Utopia. 

[mashed68]

Its selfish to play a cv, why care now?