Nice, new forums. Ohio is still best BB

[Emperor1G]

I said what i said.

[yss_turtleship]

3 hours ago, Emperor1G said:

I said what i said.

Lot's of first posts here. Welcome aboard!

[SoapGrey]

8 guns with slow shells though

[Guest Capt_of_Satisfaction]

5 hours ago, Emperor1G said:

I said what i said.

Welcome. 

I just got the Vampre II.  It was a tough call between that and Ohio and awhile before I get another steel bote :-)  Not disappointed in Vampy

[majmac]

The only downside is that the entire opposing team tries to focus fire you.

I spend so much of the game time avoiding incoming shells and torps. Even the SSs will travel across the map to have a go at you, seeing this ship has nerfed (T6 level) ASW.

Edited August 14, 2023 by majmac

[Sailor_Moon]

5 hours ago, Emperor1G said:

I said what i said.

Ohio is a pretty darn solid Tier X battleship, there's no question. She has main battery power, 30mm plating overmatch, respectable reload times, accurate secondaries, quick heals, the whole shebang.

That said, Preussen main battery build is a literal drug. You want 16-17s reload times on EIGHT 457mm guns? You can with Preussen 🤣

And you can STILL get respectable secondary battery power to boot.

[Sailor_Moon]

5 minutes ago, majmac said:

seeing this ship has nerfed (T6 level) ASW.

Yeah, that part I hate. That is not balancing. That is just dumb 😛 For goodness sake Wargaming, just balance ALL the ships if you must, but don't insult us with 5km ASW...🤦‍♀️

[Emperor1G]

2 hours ago, Sailor_Moon said:

Ohio is a pretty darn solid Tier X battleship, there's no question. She has main battery power, 30mm plating overmatch, respectable reload times, accurate secondaries, quick heals, the whole shebang.

That said, Preussen main battery build is a literal drug. You want 16-17s reload times on EIGHT 457mm guns? You can with Preussen 🤣

And you can STILL get respectable secondary battery power to boot.

Problem is, Prussian is garbo due to dispersion for anything beyond 15km, doesnt have superheal and worse concealment but I agree, he has some fast punch.

 

I think different ships shine in different modes. I think Ohio is top tier in these Tier X brawls and ranked where its smaller numbers on smaller maps.

[Sailor_Moon]

1 hour ago, Emperor1G said:

Problem is, Prussian is garbo due to dispersion for anything beyond 15km, doesnt have superheal and worse concealment but I agree, he has some fast punch.

Garbage? Actually, speaking of Ranked...

My most recent Ranked Battle. Admittedly a loss in this case, but personally speaking, that's some pretty solid damage numbers. She's definitely viable in my book. : )

[Mordt]

4 hours ago, Sailor_Moon said:

That said, Preussen main battery build is a literal drug. You want 16-17s reload times on EIGHT 457mm guns? You can with Preussen 🤣

And you can STILL get respectable secondary battery power to boot.

Ranked is T10 now, right? Because this post is seriously making me want to play. 
 

wow… the forums are already working… 😆 (on a side note, anyone else missing the gif emojis?)

1 hour ago, Emperor1G said:

Problem is, Prussian is garbo due to dispersion for anything beyond 15km, doesnt have superheal and worse concealment but I agree, he has some fast punch.

Funny thing. According to the wiki, Ohio has 273m dispersion. Preussen has 266m. 
I bet Ohio has better sigma but even still. 
German Dispersion really sticks in peoples head doesn’t it. 

[majmac]

1 hour ago, Mordt said:

Funny thing. According to the wiki, Ohio has 273m dispersion. Preussen has 266m. 
I bet Ohio has better sigma but even still. 

And then there is that new Italian premium T10 ...

Basically the same alpha damage as the Ohio; better speed; better dispersion; better concealment; same number of guns and turret lay-out and yet its ASW goes out to 11km!

Also, it sits very low in the water, much like to original Petro and its citadel can only bit touched under the funnels.

Go figure!

[Emperor1G]

1 hour ago, Mordt said:

Ranked is T10 now, right? Because this post is seriously making me want to play. 
 

wow… the forums are already working… 😆 (on a side note, anyone else missing the gif emojis?)

Funny thing. According to the wiki, Ohio has 273m dispersion. Preussen has 266m. 
I bet Ohio has better sigma but even still. 
German Dispersion really sticks in peoples head doesn’t it. 

damn, was not aware of that as Ohio really seems more accurate at longer range. weird!

[Nevermore135]

7 hours ago, Mordt said:

Ranked is T10 now, right? Because this post is seriously making me want to play. 
 

wow… the forums are already working… 😆 (on a side note, anyone else missing the gif emojis?)

Funny thing. According to the wiki, Ohio has 273m dispersion. Preussen has 266m. 
I bet Ohio has better sigma but even still. 
German Dispersion really sticks in peoples head doesn’t it. 

The “German dispersion” meme needs to die. It’s ironic that it is still invoked so often to complain about German battleships when said ships were buffed to UK/US standard BB dispersion years ago and the model still exists in game on other ships (French, Italian, and European BBs).

5 hours ago, Emperor1G said:

damn, was not aware of that as Ohio really seems more accurate at longer range. weird!

Those numbers are dispersion at maximum range, and Ohio has ~1km more range than Preussen. Horizontal dispersion is a linear function of range for all ships, the difference being that different ships use different formulas. Preussen uses the standard UK/US/German BB dispersion model and has 1.8 sigma, the same as every single ship in her line (it’s remarkably consistent in that regard), while Ohio uses the improved version of the US/UK dispersion curve also found on QE, Warspite, Hood, and Vanguard alongside 2.0 sigma.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Nevermore135

[Ensign Cthulhu]

14 hours ago, Sailor_Moon said:

That said, Preussen main battery build is a literal drug. You want 16-17s reload times on EIGHT 457mm guns? You can with Preussen 🤣

And you can STILL get respectable secondary battery power to boot.

I was all set to go all-in on a regular BB build with Preussen until I tried her out with a secondary-spec captain in PTS (not Lutjens, he is more valuable to me where he is). With secondaries module in slot 3 and rate of fire in slot 6, the results were, to quote Darth Vader, "Impressive. Most impressive." I changed my mind on the build immediately. 

Now I just have to clear a couple of priority things out of the way and I can pick up the FDG regrind where I left off.

[Sailor_Moon]

2 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

I was all set to go all-in on a regular BB build with Preussen until I tried her out with a secondary-spec captain in PTS (not Lutjens, he is more valuable to me where he is). With secondaries module in slot 3 and rate of fire in slot 6, the results were, to quote Darth Vader, "Impressive. Most impressive." I changed my mind on the build immediately. 

Now I just have to clear a couple of priority things out of the way and I can pick up the FDG regrind where I left off.

Actually, it's kinda the opposite for me. I went full secondaries....and wondered what would happen if I tried improving the main battery....I ended up with this build that maximizes main battery performance (so she's now solid for any mode), has the ability to achieve 16s reload times on eight 457mm guns (!) AND yet she still has slightly higher accuracy on her secondaries than standard, in addition to those secondaries being 11km (respectable) and having 32mm HE pen (fantastic!) AND having fast reload speeds.

I went full secondaries on Schlieffen though, because....well, her secondaries are straight up BONKERS. 😛

[Ensign Cthulhu]

4 minutes ago, Sailor_Moon said:

I ended up with this build that maximizes main battery performance (so she's now solid for any mode)

So what exactly did you go with in terms of upgrade slots and captain build? I should clarify that the module I went with in slot six is MAIN GUNS rate of fire, not the auxiliary armaments module. 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Ensign Cthulhu

[Sailor_Moon]

7 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

So what exactly did you go with in terms of upgrade slots and captain build? I should clarify that the module I went with in slot six is MAIN GUNS rate of fire, not the auxiliary armaments module. 

Right, right, you do that, but you bite the bullet and take Dispersion mod in Slot 3 😜

Now when you do that, you go from 22.5% German Accuracy to SLIGHTLY higher than standard accuracy. But let's face it, in randoms and whatnot, you don't always get to use your secondaries. But you WILL be using your main battery guns ALL the time. So much so you may not even need Concealment Expert. So in short, you build all in for secondaries BUT you swap out Sec Bat Mod for the dispersion mod. 

Of course, YMMV. If you're playing close-in (REALLY close-in), you might just go for full secondaries + reload mod for similarly speedy main battery fire. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The build I'm talking about is more for ANY situation, rather than just a pure brawler. A hybrid, in every sense of the word :) 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

6 minutes ago, Sailor_Moon said:

If you're playing close-in (REALLY close-in), you might just go for full secondaries + reload mod for similarly speedy main battery fire. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yeah, I'm a co-op main. Not exclusively - I'll dip into PvP when it suits my purposes - but very definitely main. And I'm prepared to accept the compromises if I ever have to take my secondary-emphasized ships into PvP. 

[Sailor_Moon]

8 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Yeah, I'm a co-op main. Not exclusively - I'll dip into PvP when it suits my purposes - but very definitely main. And I'm prepared to accept the compromises if I ever have to take my secondary-emphasized ships into PvP. 

Oh yeah no, go full secondaries then if you want, go nuts 😄 I mean, full secondary Preussen DOES work, it's just I find my hybrid build to be more consistent. But for Co-Op and whatnot, secondaries Preussen is just fine : )

[Nevermore135]

2 hours ago, Sailor_Moon said:

Actually, it's kinda the opposite for me. I went full secondaries....and wondered what would happen if I tried improving the main battery....I ended up with this build that maximizes main battery performance (so she's now solid for any mode), has the ability to achieve 16s reload times on eight 457mm guns (!) AND yet she still has slightly higher accuracy on her secondaries than standard, in addition to those secondaries being 11km (respectable) and having 32mm HE pen (fantastic!) AND having fast reload speeds.

I went full secondaries on Schlieffen though, because....well, her secondaries are straight up BONKERS. 😛

1 hour ago, Sailor_Moon said:

Oh yeah no, go full secondaries then if you want, go nuts 😄 I mean, full secondary Preussen DOES work, it's just I find my hybrid build to be more consistent. But for Co-Op and whatnot, secondaries Preussen is just fine : )

Before the commander rework I ran secondary builds on tier VII+ German BBs that could take full advantage of the manual secondaries skill. Bismarck was super fun and viable, and while FdG was a lot harder to get into and survive in secondary range with her poor concealment and agility, I did the entire grind with such a build. When I was grinding for GK’s UU (this was prior to that change as well) I switched over to a main battery/survivability build (because she has the same problems, but even more pronounced) and found it to be much more effective. Survivability build GK/Preussen combined with some controlled aggression can be an absolute monster, especially after German BBs had their main battery dispersion buffed. I ended up switching over my FdG build as well, but still maintained secondary specs on Gneisenau and Bismarck.

The captain skill rework was not kind to German BBs, even with IFHE (which gives the ubiquitous 105mm 32mm of pen) becoming a 2-pt skill. The change from having instantaneous -60% dispersion at 11+km to requiring 45+ seconds to “ramp up” to that level of accuracy has made their secondaries incredibly underwhelming at  long ranges, which is where they need to do their work considering their poor concealment and how sluggishly the higher tier ships handle. Being able to fire secondaries off both sides of the ship and the post-change -20% base dispersion buff isn’t enough to make up the difference. The main battery needs to make up the difference, so ASM1 is much more important.

It’s pretty obvious that the secondary changes were intended to pave the way for the German CCs, which get both MA/German CV-style dispersion and German penetration. They are tons of fun to run with secondary builds at high tiers, I just wish the older BBs hadn’t been neutered to allow it happen. I don’t build secondaries on anything without MA/German CC dispersion anymore.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Nevermore135

[Sailor_Moon]

20 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

Before the commander rework I ran secondary builds on tier VII+ German BBs that could take full advantage of the manual secondaries skill. Bismarck was super fun and viable, and while FdG was a lot harder to get into and survive in secondary range with her poor concealment and agility, I did the entire grind with such a build. When I was grinding for GK’s UU (this was prior to that change as well) I switched over to a main battery/survivability build (because she has the same problems, but even more pronounced) and found it to be much more effective. Survivability build GK/Preussen combined with some controlled aggression can be an absolute monster, especially after German BBs had their main battery dispersion buffed. I ended up switching over my FdG build as well, but still maintained secondary specs on Gneisenau and Bismarck.

The captain skill rework was not kind to German BBs, even with IFHE (which gives the ubiquitous 105mm 32mm of pen) becoming a 2-pt skill. The change from having instantaneous -60% dispersion at 11+km to requiring 45+ seconds to “ramp up” to that level of accuracy has made their secondaries incredibly underwhelming at  long ranges, which is where they need to do their work considering their poor concealment and how sluggishly the higher tier ships handle. Being able to fire secondaries off both sides of the ship and the post-change -20% base dispersion buff isn’t enough to make up the difference.

It’s pretty obvious that the secondary changes were intended to pave the way for the German CCs, which get both MA/German CV-style dispersion and German penetration. They are tons of fun to run with secondary builds at high tiers, I just wish the older BBs hadn’t been neutered to allow it happen. I don’t build secondaries on anything without MA/German CC dispersion anymore.

I understand and agree with you on pretty much everything you said, except that I STILL build for secondaries even if they might not be as reliable as they were pre-rework. However, due to their high penetration values, fast reload speed and still effective 11km range (Preussen), I do find that I get reasonable (but not fantastic) secondary damage values of about 20k-30k in a match where I actually get into secondary range consistently. But that's just personal preference, I could easily go the safe route and build Preussen for main battery only.¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Type_93]

You guys can argue over BBs all you want. To us DD mains, all BBs eat our fish like Catholics during lent.  

[Admiral_Karasu]

57 minutes ago, Type_93 said:

You guys can argue over BBs all you want. To us DD mains, all BBs eat our fish like Catholics during lent.  

Ah... I called them my 'fishy gifts'. I was always surprised how unappreciative some people were of my gifts, though. BTW, I also play BB's, cruisers... rather more selectively, and the unspoken classes not at all.