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Michelangelo and Defence - take it or leave it?


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So, only few days left for purchase of Michelangelo and Defence and I'm still hesitating whether to pick those two (since I mostly play DDs, followed by BBs).

Regarding Michelangelo: 9k dubs for tier IX is not that expensive. The playstyle is unique for sure, but might be a lot of fun. For a secondary BB enjoyer (German lines, Atlantico) might be a good pick. What is your experience with it? Does it require a high-skilled captain or is playable with 13 skill points? Is Sansonetti improvement or not so (thinking about purchase of Yolo Emillio as well, so might buy Sansonetti for those)?

Regarding Defence: I have no interest in Elli or Ferrucio, but Defence seems like an interesting ship. But the price... I have 140k RPs at the moment, so I can afford to purchase it with RP only, but the thing is I haven't bought any RP ship yet (interesting in Ohio and DDs) and 96k RP is a quite a lot for a tier X cruiser. I am also not sure if I can trust WG saying that they put it on sale later. Also what resource do you think it will be eventually available for in future? There are RB and steel British tier X cruisers, but on the other hand seems to be too good to be for coal.

So if care to share any advice or view, I will be happy.

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I decided to get Michelangelo because she is so unique and i think she is absolutely worth getting.  I already had Napoli and Schröder and she is a nice addition. A 13 points commander is ok, but higher is always better and Sansonetti is good to have because of the improved shell switching time and the easily to activate Main Battery range increase. Can't help you with Defence, i decided against getting her, couldn't justify the price, i'm also not the biggest fan of cruisers and BBs that only have 6 guns. I will take the gamble and see if WG releases her later or not.

Edited by UnrepentantSinner
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Defense has Duke of York’s shells (British BB HE and improved pen angles on the AP) with cruiser dispersion and a sub-16s reload. She’s a good acquisition if you have the resources.

I passed on Michelangelo. The main battery arrangement made the decision easy.

Edited by Nevermore135
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Think of Defence as similar to Yoshino, but with some utility. Nowhere near meta levels but it has its little niche gimmick.

The Pros:

  • You lose some DPM and torps in exchange for smoke, concealment that breaches into CL levels, and some improved deck armour.
  • Despite loss of gun DPM, the buffed HE shells means you're 2nd best fire starter among large CAs, between Yoshino and PR.
  • Your AP are short fuse and have slightly buffed penetration angles. TBH I'm not sure what to make of these properties because HE is really your primary shell.
  • The smoke can not only be used as a disengage, it can be cycled with DCP to make you largely immune to fire dmg, which solves one of the weaknesses of large CAs.

The Cons:

  • Unfortunately, despite improved armour, your large superstructure and bow/stern armour means you're still a relatively weak hull. Your ship layout means your stern is particularly vulnerable, although smoke really helps here. While your fire weakness is largely negated, you will still suffer from shell dmg.
  • Despite having frontal torpedoes, they're gimmicky at best. Because no competent player is gonna let you joust them with such a hull, not to mention guns that can't out-DPM them.
  • Your smoke penalty means you really want to operate at medium/long range. At closer ranges you have to choose between shooting or hiding in smoke. This partially goes against your concealment, and really diminishes your performance in small formats like ranked/CB where you'll often have to engage at closer ranges.
  • Having such busted concealment is great at disrupting the gameplay of CLs, but it really is no match for Napoli who already does that while tanking like a BC, with a DD strapped on top, mobile smoke with fighter spotting, and not having such bad smoke penalties. But really, this isn't your specialty but it is there. your primary purpose is still setting fires from long range.
  • Also your AP can shatter on a Conqueror's belt at 5km. This is why I just default to HE for most targets. You're not a Petro.
Edited by Verytis
wording
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I have both the Defense and the Michelangelo.  I enjoy both of them and have not regretted either purchase. 

You see, I purchase (and subsequently play) ships because they are enjoyable to play - no other reason.  If the OP thinks he might enjoy playing a particular ship, and can afford the cost, then that is the one he should get. 

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9 hours ago, Verytis said:

Think of Defence as similar to Yoshino, but with some utility. Nowhere near meta levels but it has its little niche gimmick.

 

  • Your AP are short fuse and have slightly buffed penetration angles. TBH I'm not sure what to make of these properties because HE is really your primary shell.

AP angles are same as DM/Balti etc.  I'd call that more than slightly improved.

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I definitely didn’t have enough resources for Kitakami, but I decided to at least take Defence. More or less worth it, it's not quite Marseille (armor is slightly missing), but the ship is quite interesting. Michelangelo, as far as I remember, began to build just before the reworking of perks, so I did not start the dockyard. But with the new secondary weapon it’s a completely different ship! And in the process, a funny detail became clear - in the CIS there is a very different Michelangelo, without hydro (!!!) and, accordingly, with the old secondary weapons, because they did not change the perks. I just thought at the last moment that, having missed Schröder, it would be nice to take at least an Italian for the 9-ranks.

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14 hours ago, Zerstoerherr said:

So, only few days left for purchase of Michelangelo and Defence and I'm still hesitating whether to pick those two (since I mostly play DDs, followed by BBs).

Regarding Michelangelo: 9k dubs for tier IX is not that expensive. The playstyle is unique for sure, but might be a lot of fun. For a secondary BB enjoyer (German lines, Atlantico) might be a good pick. What is your experience with it? Does it require a high-skilled captain or is playable with 13 skill points? Is Sansonetti improvement or not so (thinking about purchase of Yolo Emillio as well, so might buy Sansonetti for those)?

Regarding Defence: I have no interest in Elli or Ferrucio, but Defence seems like an interesting ship. But the price... I have 140k RPs at the moment, so I can afford to purchase it with RP only, but the thing is I haven't bought any RP ship yet (interesting in Ohio and DDs) and 96k RP is a quite a lot for a tier X cruiser. I am also not sure if I can trust WG saying that they put it on sale later. Also what resource do you think it will be eventually available for in future? There are RB and steel British tier X cruisers, but on the other hand seems to be too good to be for coal.

So if care to share any advice or view, I will be happy.

It is also a question on how are your FreeXP resources/inflow and your willingness to continue grind. I did a 4x extra reset + the usual double on French DDs and German DCruisers so Icould take care of most my Kitikami stages by RB but I have still large reserves and reset on average 2-3 liness per 3 month period and play them. How are your plans for the future here?

Coal and steel seems to be on a dwindling streak, i would at least count on 30-50% less inflow in the future.

Michealngelo I would grab for 9K as this is OK for a T9 especially if you can get doubloons at a discount (birthday coupon). You get a few red boosters too as a bonus.

RB is trickier but if you have FreeXP that you do not use in other ways (or can change to just use them for RB) it is possible to speed up the generation. I would not be surpised if some future WG releases are hidden behind events like Kitikami and with later access through other means. So I guess it pays to not spend everything.

But if you have lots of ships that you want and not that dramatic inflow I would be less inclined to buy Defence esp. if you are uninterested in the middle ships - however those ships bring some flake rewards so they are not worthless. 

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3 hours ago, Gnirf said:

It is also a question on how are your FreeXP resources/inflow and your willingness to continue grind. I did a 4x extra reset + the usual double on French DDs and German DCruisers so Icould take care of most my Kitikami stages by RB but I have still large reserves and reset on average 2-3 liness per 3 month period and play them. How are your plans for the future here?

Coal and steel seems to be on a dwindling streak, i would at least count on 30-50% less inflow in the future.

Michealngelo I would grab for 9K as this is OK for a T9 especially if you can get doubloons at a discount (birthday coupon). You get a few red boosters too as a bonus.

RB is trickier but if you have FreeXP that you do not use in other ways (or can change to just use them for RB) it is possible to speed up the generation. I would not be surpised if some future WG releases are hidden behind events like Kitikami and with later access through other means. So I guess it pays to not spend everything.

But if you have lots of ships that you want and not that dramatic inflow I would be less inclined to buy Defence esp. if you are uninterested in the middle ships - however those ships bring some flake rewards so they are not worthless. 

In what way are coal and steel becoming less available?   Genuinely curious....  did I miss something?  I mean main sources of those two resources are all still there, right?

In fact, compared to years past, the biggest source, Clan battles, seems to happen with more regularity.  In fact, if you play it semi-regularly, after 2/3 years you will likely end up in a situation where there's pretty much nothing except Camo's to spend the steel on. 

Now, the one resources that was most definitely nerfed is free XP.  The camo/flag rework pretty much meant a 40% reduction in Free XP earned for those that knew how to mix/max/manage their camo/flags.  For me personally, it was even higher since they nerfed the living shit out of  operations which was a significant source. (Bravo, WG, you win, I can't farm Ops anymore, so I pretty much just play game 1/3 as much and spend about 1/10th of what I used too.... well done x 3).

FreeXP mainly affect RB ships, however, the 1600% ship xp flag compensates a little bit, but it sorta hasn't mattered so much lately because the most recent RB ships has been garbage for the most part.

 

Defence is an interesting ship.  I wouldn't call it great or anything, but it's competitive and relative fun to play because it can create some cruiser ambush possibilities.  Now if I want to carry a TX came I'd still rather play DM, LM Petro, Nevsky but it is fun to play.  Also, it's good 1v1 against some the popular cruisers with normally busted armor schemes like Moskva, Petro, Napoli.

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39 minutes ago, YouSatInGum said:

The camo/flag rework pretty much meant a 40% reduction in Free XP earned for those that knew how to mix/max/manage their camo/flags.  For me personally, it was even higher since they nerfed the living shit out of  operations which was a significant source.

Are you losing 40% FXP if your running blue boosters and a perma camo which has a baked in 100% FXP on top of the 2400% FXP for the blue booster? These are the new equivalent of special signals and Camo.

Special signals used to basically cost money to get some were not even available to buy you had to get them in containers that you had to purchase for the most part. Also you had to use 3 staked signals to get the best case scenario. Just wondering if 40% reduction in FXP is right. 

Edited by clammboy
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51 minutes ago, clammboy said:

Are you losing 40% FXP if your running blue boosters and a perma camo which has a baked in 100% FXP on top of the 2400% FXP for the blue booster? These are the new equivalent of special signals and Camo.

Special signals used to basically cost money to get some were not even available to buy you had to get them in containers that you had to purchase for the most part. Also you had to use 3 staked signals to get the best case scenario. Just wondering if 40% reduction in FXP is right. 

I have multiple spreadsheets that basically prove it under conditions where the player has a clue of how to effectively use camos/signals/boosters.  I used to be able to earn a million free xp a month just playing and hour or two a night.  No way I can that now.  For everyday players, a lot of the nerf revolves around the replacement rate of boosters versus signals is much less than it used to be.  You can sort of relate it so macroeconomics where WG reduced the money supply or the bonus supply in this case.

I went round and round with Boggzy and Ahskance over it, but in the end the math is in black and white and even Boggzy eventually ended the debate by conceding that WG was really only worried differences on the orders of magnitude (his words) and implying that 30-40% nerfs were just fine with them.  Might even have saved that page befire they swept it under forumcide carpet or maybe wayback has it.

In fact, my opinion is that was one of the key goals of that rework.  Many of their promotions since basically say that they pay closer attention to resource accumulation and regard keeping that under control as a key part of their monetization strategy.  The Kitakami promo is the most recent example of this. 

 

Edited by YouSatInGum
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The comparison was based on usage of blue or red boosters. 

You have to realize the nerf in the long run depends more on the supply of bonus Flags/boosters,etc.

But I can see that you are going to need to see my sheet to understand what I'm talking about....I dig it up and post later.... but will say this.  I am very confident in my numbers.  The rework WAS a nerf to CXP and FXP.  Credits however where about a wash.

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19 hours ago, YouSatInGum said:

In what way are coal and steel becoming less available?   Genuinely curious....  did I miss something?  I mean main sources of those two resources are all still there, right?

Steel ,Coal and RB were more generous in previous Battlepasses. no RB in the latest 2, maybe 50% of coal and steel in the original 20 stages. Esp Postprogression if you had paid battlepass were quite a lot of coal for me that were often quite close to the maximum. Those Postprogression stages were a large part of my coal income.. So it depends on how you play. 

I do not play clan battles so much of the steel is from the Battle passes + bronze 9 wins/sprint. Some from the DY but this DY were just post progression if you bought like I did the large starter pack. Also the blue boosters which helps a lot in RB grinds are nerfed. They are kind of backbone in that respect. So that RB gen will be slower, as I need to conserve them far more. I have some minimum reserve numbers that I want to have for emergency, and my stocks have dwindled a lot these two monts and asymmetric did not help.

If you do clanbattles a lot in a the higher echelons you will naturally have a different equation. 

But I am mostly referring to the BP nerf which all players suffer from. I am sure that WG let us compensate this by spending money in various events.

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