Omg, how much Wedgie butchered Leander!!

[Andrewbassg]

 

What they did to my boi is unforgivable. Nobody played their other stupid releases, so they proceeded to butcher her, to make their crap more attractive. Yo, Wedgie, newsflash  game balance is NOT a popularity contest and NOT a "miss" contest!! This approach is very much consistent with the ideology, which falsely promotes equality of outcome.

Shame on you Wedgie, shame on you. Only clueless and incompetent people needs to alter a deal, to create the mere appearance of competence and success 

[Jakob Knight]

I must have missed something.  Could you list what changes were made, because I don't see anything listed in the patch notes or Devblog about it.

 

[Andrewbassg]

3 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

I must have missed something.  Could you list what changes were made, because I don't see anything listed in the patch notes or Devblog about it.

 

Not now. It was two successive reload nerfs, at least, which I vividly remember. Coincided, more or less, with the release of the Pan Asian cruiser line. And also there was the nerf to her smoke and the flag.

But just now I feel it, coz resetted the line, which is my go to reset line, and boy....in ranked she is a turd now. 

[Andrewbassg]

15 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

I must have missed something.  Could you list what changes were made, because I don't see anything listed in the patch notes or Devblog about it.

 

Yep, there you go.

Update 0.10.6:

Main battery reload time increased from 7.7 to 8 s.

Updated 0.11.8

Main battery reload time increased from 8 to 8.5 s.

Researchable torpedo tube reload time increased from 96 to 101 s.

Standard torpedo tube reload time reduced from 106 to 101 s.

Update 12.5:

Main battery reload time increased from 8.5 to 9 seconds.

Pretty much

 

Edited January 29 by Andrewbassg

[Jakob Knight]

Hmm.  Well, the Leander was just about the top tech tree Cruiser at that Tier for a long time, so I suppose I'm not surprised someone noticed.  Torpedo Reload standardized between Standard and Researchable (basically averaging them together) and a Gun Reload increase of 1.3 seconds.  

 

 

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

Got to encourage people to play the new lines over the old ones.

Bait and switch....bait and switch.

Welcome to free2play games.

[Andrewbassg]

12 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

Hmm.  Well, the Leander was just about the top tech tree Cruiser at that Tier for a long time, so I suppose I'm not surprised someone noticed.  Torpedo Reload standardized between Standard and Researchable (basically averaging them together) and a Gun Reload increase of 1.3 seconds.  

 

The key word was. She is also very squishy, ergo needs competence. We can't get good, balanced stuff, right? RIGHT? 

7 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Got to encourage people to play the new lines over the old ones.

Bait and switch....bait and switch.

Welcome to free2play games.

Yeah well     WarGambling.

Edited January 29 by Andrewbassg

[Verytis]

While foul play can indeed be the reason, there may be actual reasons behind it.

• Smoke is an effective tool for avoiding CV spotting, and in T6 there is an absence of radar to counter that.
  • Meanwhile your CV guarantees you'll have spotting so you can smoke farm.
  • Most importantly it is also easy to use, meaning new players have an  easier time playing this compared to other cruisers.
• Average playerbase skill deterioration may also be reason for nerfs.
  • You don't expect a new T6 player to know to shoot it in smoke, or how it dies to CA AP.
  • Or how hard angling stops the bulk of its dmg output, granted its not easy if there is a CV around forcing constant evasive actions.

[Wolfswetpaws]

3 hours ago, Andrewbassg said:

 

What they did to my boi is unforgivable. Nobody played their other stupid releases, so they proceeded to butcher her, to make their crap more attractive. Yo, Wedgie, newsflash  game balance is NOT a popularity contest and NOT a "miss" contest!! This approach is very much consistent with the ideology, which falsely promotes equality of outcome.

Shame on you Wedgie, shame on you. Only clueless and incompetent people needs to alter a deal, to create the mere appearance of competence and success 

 

[Andrewbassg]

13 minutes ago, Verytis said:

While foul play can indeed be the reason, there may be actual reasons behind it.

Well I don't buy it. Like I said first (ermm second)  nerf coincided with the Panam line. And.....

17 minutes ago, Verytis said:

Smoke is an effective tool for avoiding CV spotting, and in T6 there is an absence of radar to counter that.

• Meanwhile your CV guarantees you'll have spotting so you can smoke farm.
• Most importantly it is also easy to use, meaning new players have an  easier time playing this compared to other cruisers.

 

...... ya know, they also have smoke. And when the smoke nerf came about, they were, either less affected, or gained by. So....

17 minutes ago, Verytis said:

• Average playerbase skill deterioration may also be reason for nerfs.
  • You don't expect a new T6 player to know to shoot it in smoke, or how it dies to CA AP.
  • Or how hard angling stops the bulk of its dmg output, granted its not easy if there is a CV around forcing constant evasive actions.

Yeah, but then again you don't make 'em harder to play and also less relevant, in terms of battle influence. Unless you want to highlight the alternatives

[Asym]

This is what happens, over and over and over again in games.  And, the game owners really don't know or don't care...  They really don't.  And, to add insult to injury, they really don't care what we think because the money is rolling in despite us.  Otherwise, there'd be no game, eh!?

So, chalk this up to another "antic" to cause you to be "frantic" to buy yet another OP cruiser.  And, they know in the end, you will........

And that, says it all.  You won't quit and they know it.       

[Snargfargle]

4 minutes ago, Asym said:

So, chalk this up to another "antic" to cause you to be "frantic" to buy yet another OP cruiser.  And, they know in the end, you will...   

There are so many different ships in this game now that I haven't a clue as to which, if any, that I'd even want. That's why I play pretty much the same six ships unless it's snowflake time or I need a specific ship type for Naval Battles or an event.

Edited January 29 by Snargfargle

[Asym]

1 minute ago, Snargfargle said:

There are so many different ships in this game now that I haven't a clue as to which, if any, that I'd even want. That's why I play pretty much the same six ships unless it's snowflake time or I need a specific ship type for Naval Battles or an event.

Oh Gosh, I am the same way.  We were talking about having a "Mothball Port" available to us.  Like you, I really only play 12 ships.  Now, if ASB's come back, and they won't, that would be a larger number.  Why waste your time with 410 ships now.

Heck, I'd give away ships to new players if I could. 

And, as you said: Snowflakes (if applicable since not all ships are !) is all there are for those other 399 ships I never use.

[clammboy]

You can count me in with you guys I probable play the same 7 or 8 ships. The rotation may change as a ship drops out and a new one comes in but it's usually the same 8 ships or so.

Edited January 29 by clammboy

[Wolfswetpaws]

 @Snargfargle @Asym @clammboy
There are times, such as the current dockyard event, wherein the mission is to earn a large amount of ShipXP or CommanderXP in a given ship type (CV, BB, Cruiser, DD, Submarine).
So, to make the daily 50% win bonus work for me, I'll select a ship type (Cruiser for example) and then refine my selection by choosing either a range of tiers or "all ships not fully researched (non "Elite" status ships)".
Then I'll sail each of them into an appropriate game mode, one by one, each getting their turn.

If I've chosen to play the non-Elite-status ships, then I can expand my selection to all ships (of that type) of a tier and keep playing up or down the qualifying tiers (for the mission).

The point is that my efforts are now counted towards grinding lines of tech-tree ships and counted towards fulfilling the mission (and sometimes more than one mission, if other criteria are involved and are simultaneously satisfied, such as getting ribbons for citadel hits or setting fires or causing flooding).

I admit I've derived this methodology from @Ensign Cthulhu and his "make the grind work for you" philosophy.

I'm not at all saying not to play your favorite ships and do what makes you happy.  🙂 
I'm just offering another option which might hit one or more birds with the same stone, figuratively speaking.  And hopefully add to your happiness?

If some theories are to be believed, then playing a ship once and then moving on to the next ship may yield a more "normal" behavior by the matchmaker.
Granted, I don't have scientific & statistical basis to prove that theory.

[Jakob Knight]

3 hours ago, Andrewbassg said:

The key word was. She is also very squishy, ergo needs competence. We can't get good, balanced stuff, right? RIGHT? 

 

 

If something is better than others in it's same value range, is it balanced?

 

And all CLs are squishy.  I don't think I've ever been impressed with the ability of my Dallas to absorb incoming fire.

 

 

[Andrewbassg]

47 minutes ago, Snargfargle said:

There are so many different ships in this game now that I haven't a clue as to which, if any, that I'd even want. That's why I play pretty much the same six ships unless it's snowflake time or I need a specific ship type for Naval Battles or an event.

Soo much this. That's one of the reasons why the ops rework made me angry. Knowing the ops, I could take out any ship to get the hang of it, to learn it, to work out tactics, strategies for her , to learn to mitigate the weaknesses, to learn how use the strongpoints. Some ships are used to be very strong in some ops and weak in others. For example Molotov was exceptionally strong in AEGIS, a bit in KW and not really in the others. Being on weekly rotation, one could take out the optimal ship and play her. Nowadays I take either Irian, Mainz, or Bayard, unless I grind.

Wedgie could have made the ops to rotate on a daily or a two daily basis, but no, coz laziness is stronk.....

 For randoms I take Nevsky and that's it, unless Naval Battles. 

[Andrewbassg]

14 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

 

If something is better than others in it's same value range, is it balanced?

 

And all CLs are squishy.  I don't think I've ever been impressed with the ability of my Dallas to absorb incoming fire.

No. But she was balanced. Unlike other Cl's she  doesn't have HE. She has nice AP, but her guns are not very good, the dispersion can be quite wonky at times and the turret rotation is not good. On top of that, she has an unique playstyle closer to dd;s rather than Cl's , which put her at more risk.

So yeah she was balanced. im not "just" mad, I know why I'm mad. 

Edited January 29 by Andrewbassg

[Jakob Knight]

22 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

No. But she was balanced. Unlike other Cl's she  doesn't have HE. She has nice AP, but her guns are not very good, the dispersion can be quite wonky at times and the turret rotation is not good. On top of that, she has an unique playstyle closer to dd;s rather than Cl's , which put her at more risk.

So yeah she was balanced. im not "just" mad, I know why I'm mad. 

 

Unlike other CLs, she gets the option to individually fire her 8km torpedoes ( I think, correct me if i'm wrong here).  Also, smoke and Repair Party, if I remember correctly, paired with Hydro and a detectability about equal to some DDs.  So, not exactly without her compensations compared to her contemporaries.

 

And, I didn't claim you were 'just mad', though I think you may be overreacting to the 1.3 second increase in the main battery reload.  

 

Edited January 29 by Jakob Knight

[Asym]

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

 @Snargfargle @Asym @clammboy
There are times, such as the current dockyard event, wherein the mission is to earn a large amount of ShipXP or CommanderXP in a given ship type (CV, BB, Cruiser, DD, Submarine).
So, to make the daily 50% win bonus work for me, I'll select a ship type (Cruiser for example) and then refine my selection by choosing either a range of tiers or "all ships not fully researched (non "Elite" status ships)".
Then I'll sail each of them into an appropriate game mode, one by one, each getting their turn.

If I've chosen to play the non-Elite-status ships, then I can expand my selection to all ships (of that type) of a tier and keep playing up or down the qualifying tiers (for the mission).

The point is that my efforts are now counted towards grinding lines of tech-tree ships and counted towards fulfilling the mission (and sometimes more than one mission, if other criteria are involved and are simultaneously satisfied, such as getting ribbons for citadel hits or setting fires or causing flooding).

I admit I've derived this methodology from @Ensign Cthulhu and his "make the grind work for you" philosophy.

I'm not at all saying not to play your favorite ships and do what makes you happy.  🙂 
I'm just offering another option which might hit one or more birds with the same stone, figuratively speaking.  And hopefully add to your happiness?

If some theories are to be believed, then playing a ship once and then moving on to the next ship may yield a more "normal" behavior by the matchmaker.
Granted, I don't have scientific & statistical basis to prove that theory.

We've been "Optimizing" ship choice for years.  For me, @AdmiralThunder way back when kind of aimed me that way...  And, our host goes to great lengths to stretch-out completion tasks.  What really helps is when "someone" starts writing about "what worked for me" in the forum or in chat.

What would be neat, is if this Forum listed "optimal ships" for task completions....

@HogHammer  just a thought:  of a task completion outline for the next large grind missions and then, letting the @Ensign Cthulhu and @Wolfswetpaws et al., add it the ships that made it easier for them.   The rest of us almost kind of "wander around with old habits" and seem to enjoys the pain.......lol

[Andrewbassg]

44 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

Unlike other CLs, she gets the option to individually fire her 8km torpedoes ( I think, correct me if i'm wrong here).  Also, smoke and Repair Party, if I remember correctly, paired with Hydro and a detectability about equal to some DDs.  So, not exactly without her compensations compared to her contemporaries.

Correct, except conceal. She has 9 km with cap skill.  And still, she was balanced. She can't start fires which is a BIG part of Cl playstyle, so she has to play like a dd, with worse concealment and with a easy to hit citadel. High risk, high reward playstyle, which Wedgie doesn't like, unless it can dive.

44 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

And, I didn't claim you were 'just mad', though I think you may be overreacting to the 1.3 second increase in the main battery reload.  

 

Oh no worries, I wasn't combative, we are just discussing matters. Otherwise. not really, coz what is on paper and what is player experience are not the same. i'm quite familar with both her ( played a sh*tton of ops with her) and the line ( i have 17 mill XP on the line, on EU, alone) and from my pov she was butchered.

Btw, that difference between paper vs  player experience is why Wedgie is incapable of proper balance. They repeatedly and publicly stated and made their MO, to disregard the latter, with quite predictable results.

Edited January 29 by Andrewbassg

[Andrewbassg]

2 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

If some theories are to be believed, then playing a ship once and then moving on to the next ship may yield a more "normal" behavior by the matchmaker.

That's correct, insofar as matches my experiences. Wedgie's RNG is not "true" RNG, but % based RNG. This kind of RNG needs  a "database" to properly function, otherwise the "extreme" cases (f.e very good/very bad disp) are more prevalent. And that "database", doesnt last forever, it will get periodically resetted.

Edited January 29 by Andrewbassg

[Jakob Knight]

51 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Correct, except conceal. She has 9 km with cap skill. 

 

Ughh.  I'm at Work and was looking at the Wiki to confirm what I remember of the ship (one of my fav T6 Cruisers as well).  Somehow, I saw an 8.5km base Concealment, so put it down to too many hours on the digital sea making my eyes go fuzzy.

 

[Andrewbassg]

21 minutes ago, Jakob Knight said:

Ughh.  I'm at Work and was looking at the Wiki to confirm what I remember of the ship (one of my fav T6 Cruisers as well).  Somehow, I saw an 8.5km base Concealment, so put it down to too many hours on the digital sea making my eyes go fuzzy.

 

I think you confounded her with Huanghe. She's the only one who can go 8.5 albeit with skill

 

Edited January 29 by Andrewbassg

[Aethervox]

3 hours ago, Asym said:

the game owners really

* there is only one major share owner, Viktor Kisilyi - see the Wiki entry on him &/or WG.

3 hours ago, Asym said:

don't care.

* imo, Viktor Kisilyi does not care at all except for how much money he can scam off of the player base

3 hours ago, Asym said:

they really don't care what we think because the money is rolling in

Due, ofc, to the WG intended continual new 'Sardine' (player) churn & also the Whales & also any others who spend money on WG products

6 hours ago, Jakob Knight said:

the Leander

Atm, I don't have the Leander amongst my 100 odd ships

2 hours ago, Jakob Knight said:

And all CLs are squishy.

Most likely. Still, I have & play some CLs.

3 hours ago, clammboy said:

I probable play the same 7 or 8 ships

I could quote the others who say the same for 6 ships. I use this example. Hey, play whatever ships you want however many times & in whatever game mode you want.

I have 12 different lists which I use to random (I use various sided dice for rolling a result) the ship I play, so, virtually all my 100 odd ships can get played. I wonder why players would have so many ships in their port & then barely (or never) play some of these ships. Every ship has its attractions, after all.

Edited January 29 by Aethervox