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Honestly not sure why the Independence exists


Zaydin

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Don't get me wrong, it's a blast from the past to see her in the game again after so long but... why is she even in the game? She lacks the smokescreens that is supposed to define the line and yes, I know that most tech trees don't usually start seeing their gimmicks until tier 8 anyways but given her limited loadout, Independence could have used the smokescreen to give her a niche separate from the Ranger.

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49 minutes ago, Zaydin said:

Don't get me wrong, it's a blast from the past to see her in the game again after so long but... why is she even in the game? She lacks the smokescreens that is supposed to define the line and yes, I know that most tech trees don't usually start seeing their gimmicks until tier 8 anyways but given her limited loadout, Independence could have used the smokescreen to give her a niche separate from the Ranger.

Tier 6 is supposed to teach fighter use...WG can't have it be too gimmicky or they are afraid new carrier players will be confused.

This is a drawback of having the CVs be even tier only.

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While I agree that it kinda sucks that Independence has returned to the game but without smoke screen consumables, we have to remember that this new line has multiple things going for it other than the smokecreen, like their fighters. This entire line's fighters are "enhanced/improved" compared to the other carriers that we have in the game atm. I'll list a few here:

  • has greatly improved fighter HP (Essex has 1300HP per fighter plane vs other tier 10 CV's 203HP 🤯. 500% greater than conventional fighters)
  • somewhat built in Enhanced Reactions with it's -50% time before attack
  • faster reload (5s) after fighter squadron despawns compared to normal fighter squadrons (10s)
  • plane per fighter squadron count is +2 compared to their same tier counterpart.
  • improved action radius (Yorktown and Essex)

Independence has all the fighter benefits except for the last bullet point which is totally fine. You can still lock out the enemy CV from being able to pull off an effective strike (soviet carriers can somewhat bypass this but it isn't impossible to prevent their strikes). I speedran ranked with support carriers and still doing it. image here. They're very still very strong with the abuse of their tactical squadron spam and not having to use their torpedo squadron until they have no choice to. I find them all to be amongst the top of their tier.

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3 hours ago, Zaydin said:

Don't get me wrong, it's a blast from the past to see her in the game again after so long but... why is she even in the game? She lacks the smokescreens that is supposed to define the line and yes, I know that most tech trees don't usually start seeing their gimmicks until tier 8 anyways but given her limited loadout, Independence could have used the smokescreen to give her a niche separate from the Ranger.

Independence does have tactical squadrons that lower-tier CVs lack, so my guess is the “official” reasoning is to introduce players to that mechanic separately from the smoke curtain. It looks like Independence will be researched from Ranger rather than Langley, so players can learn fighter mechanics with Ranger, be introduced to tactical squadron mechanics with Independence, and be given the smoke curtain to play with at Yorktown.

The other likely reason Independence was included and Yorktown isn’t researched directly from Ranger is to simply pad the tech tree and increase the grind along the path to Essex by adding another tier VI into the chain. Of course, this also means the line will likely yield more RP for a line reset, meaning Essex may be a more attractive target for the quarterly x2 bonus than Midway for those who really want to regrind CVs.

2 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

Tier 6 is supposed to teach fighter use...WG can't have it be too gimmicky or they are afraid new carrier players will be confused.

This is a drawback of having the CVs be even tier only.

Independence will be researched from Ranger, not Langley, meaning she will not be a player’s first experience with fighters. You’re probably on the right track though, because I can see the devs thinking the introduction of both the smoke curtain and tactical squadrons on Yorktown at tier VIII would cause players’ heads to explode.

Edited by Nevermore135
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4 hours ago, Nevermore135 said:

I can see the devs thinking the introduction of both the smoke curtain and tactical squadrons on Yorktown at tier VIII would cause players’ heads to explode.

All the CV lines have at least one significant difference from the others, though, and they all require adaptation, even at lower Tiers. Be that Dive Bombers, Skip Bombers, Carpet Bombers, German Rocket planes and everyone else's rocket planes, Bearn's fighters, Ark Royal's torpedoes vs everyone else's... it's hard to see how WG could have come to the conclusion that Tier VI players would get confused. More likely that their tendency to not give a monkey's about lower tiers has now started to apply to Tier VI and they've got the Independence pegged as a giveaway, of no great interest or concern. 

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5 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

All the CV lines have at least one significant difference from the others, though, and they all require adaptation, even at lower Tiers. Be that Dive Bombers, Skip Bombers, Carpet Bombers, German Rocket planes and everyone else's rocket planes, Bearn's fighters, Ark Royal's torpedoes vs everyone else's... it's hard to see how WG could have come to the conclusion that Tier VI players would get confused.

I agree with you that most players wouldn’t have issues adapting to a fully kitted-out Independence with smoke curtain at tier VI. At least some of the devs, on the other hand, appear to have a low opinion of the playerbase.

Per my post, giving players space to learn the mechanics without being overwhelmed will be the “official” reason parroted by any WG employees that field any inquiries. I personally lean more towards the devs wanting to pad the tech tree and being also very much locked into the rigid thinking of “a line’s final characteristics/playstyle must manifest at tier VIII” that has been characteristic of new lines for the last few years as an explanation.

Edited by Nevermore135
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1 hour ago, Andrewbassg said:

 

Nah, its can be ground for free so money isn't the answer.


Independence is an oddity as the torpedo planes have the regular multi attacks (ie: one group of planes separate from the whole squadron for their attack, the rest 'circle'). However, the bomber and attack planes all attack as an entire squadron, much like the Russian CVs. There is a timer though, before the next group of bombers and attack aircraft are ready. The Torpedo planes regen as normal.

The ship itself does have 2 'hulls', but not like it did previously. If memory serves, the original hull A had a single 5in gun at the bow and stern. The B hull removed the 5in gun for 40mm guns. In its new version, Independence stays as the AA version in both hulls, with the major difference being a change in HP of about 1,000pts and 1 pt of AA.

As said, there is no smoke on the aircraft, but if you look at the model you find 'smoke bombs' located just under the flight deck at either side at the stern.

 

shot-24_01.21_10_11.48-0329.thumb.jpg.62d624503e8a8db07b0e1ea74458ed18.jpg

 

How effective is the Independence in battle?

The Torpedo planes are Avengers (you start with Devastators) and feel to be the heavy hitters of the ship.
The Attack planes are Wildcats, they do attack as a full squadron and the rockets are mostly accurate. Plane HP is the issue.
The Bombers (Dauntless) are not dive bombers, but level bombers, and the bomb drop pattern is spread out. Several times I bracketed a target that was centered.

The overall damage this CV does feels anemic compared to the other T6 CVs. The torpedos are the heavy hitters, the bombs are inconsistent, and the rockets chip away at ships.

Still playing with the thing and work out what it can do.

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2 minutes ago, Lord_Slayer said:

Nah, its can be ground for free so money isn't the answer.

Well, grind ≠ free. And also there will be people, who will miss out this event or newcomers and they will have to either grind or FXP.  While that not necessarily means money, free it ain't.

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9 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Free = no money spent.

Please stop trying to gaslight.

I had to "pay" a couple thousand doubloons to unlock both sides of the carrier event. However, since I got the doubloons for free for playing the game the ships I got were still free. My time is worth nothing to anyone but myself. Since this is a free-to-play game and I play it for free, I'm always ahead. I once spend an entire afternoon in Reno gambling the slots with a single $2 roll of nickles before I finally lost them all. I got a couple of complementary drinks from the casino and ate at their snack bar for free while I was losing my $2. Even that cost me more than I've spent playing WOWS.

Edited by Snargfargle
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1 hour ago, Snargfargle said:

I had to "pay" a couple thousand doubloons to unlock both sides of the carrier event. However, since I got the doubloons for free for playing the game the ships I got were still free.

Same thing happened to me with the Christmas battle pass. Before I bought it, I'd already I got exactly 3500 dubs out of Santa crates for which I paid nothing. 

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7 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Free = no money spent.

Nah..... that's a personal, subjective interpretation. Objectively, ergo factually, free means  unconditionally lands in your port, no questions asked. That's free. Anything else is based on a subjective interpretation of spent item value. 

 

7 hours ago, Snargfargle said:

My time is worth

That's the correct, sane approach and I'm no "activist" (and never gonna be) to try to convince you or anyone else  that you should adopt ' "my truth". i'm just insisting, for good reason, to call A an A and not a B.

 

7 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Please stop trying to gaslight.

Nah..... I wold say is the other way around. A...bit 🙂 

 

Still.... these are just seemingly trivial things, facts are pesky things and don't care about feelings. However, once the fabric of reality is altered...very dangerous things could (and will) happen.  Like in your country, with the non stopping "pretending" game. You know who else did that, also very successfully? A little, unknown austrian painter, with a funny moustache.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stab-in-the-back_myth

That's how he managed to win over a country, in time, coz he got legit elected. Instead of embracing the truth, however painful that would have been and then start to heal....they've gone the other way. That's how all started. With lies. And we all know the result.

So lets stick to 1+1=2.

Edited by Andrewbassg
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First match in Independence...

...and I could just spam the rockets and level bombers without stop because their regen was so fast.

Now, their damage output isn't great, but this is CV play on training wheels...

Also, was just thinking an interesting meme build for Independence is Hidden Menace...get that surface concealment down below 8.5km...

😄

Edited by Daniel_Allan_Clark
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Went ahead and took the Independence out for a single test drive. Landed bottom tiered in a T8 match with four CVs total in the match. Proceeded to outscore all three of the other CVs within the match. I have to shake my head at the quality of the captains taking the CV slot when me and my 53rd outing ever in randoms in a carrier first timing a ship get a match like that. Does hilariously low amounts of damage on any given pass in truth. Best single pass I had was when I landed three HE bombs on a DD in one pass for just over 5k. The torpedoes felt like I was throwing water balloons, but that might have been the fact I was stuck slapping the sides of a Flandre more than anything else for part of that match.

Did walk out with over 70k spotting damage on top of my roughly 30k of damage dealt. Didn't get more than a single fire that match which somebody immediately used their DCP on. Though I will say that I was literally at zero risk of running out of planes even though I was bottom tier. Post game stats said I "lost" 55 planes that match. Realistically I only felt any losses on the torpedo bomber squadron.

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4 hours ago, Kynami said:

Went ahead and took the Independence out for a single test drive. Landed bottom tiered in a T8 match with four CVs total in the match. Proceeded to outscore all three of the other CVs within the match. I have to shake my head at the quality of the captains taking the CV slot when me and my 53rd outing ever in randoms in a carrier first timing a ship get a match like that. Does hilariously low amounts of damage on any given pass in truth. Best single pass I had was when I landed three HE bombs on a DD in one pass for just over 5k. The torpedoes felt like I was throwing water balloons, but that might have been the fact I was stuck slapping the sides of a Flandre more than anything else for part of that match.

Did walk out with over 70k spotting damage on top of my roughly 30k of damage dealt. Didn't get more than a single fire that match which somebody immediately used their DCP on. Though I will say that I was literally at zero risk of running out of planes even though I was bottom tier. Post game stats said I "lost" 55 planes that match. Realistically I only felt any losses on the torpedo bomber squadron.

I've had two battles so far in her...both bottom tier...averaging nearly 70k damage...

Both games went the full 20 minutes though.

You can pretty much just rotate the tactical squadrons indefinitely...though this does cut your damage output.

It's like playing CV with training wheels. You can't do enough damage to actually match the other CVs alpha...but you can't be without planes ever.

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What I want to know is why they chose a carrier without any secondaries to be a t6. I mean not like many of them have much of a secondary battery but it would be nice to have something.
 

I hadn't really realized until a co-op battle where a DD got past a flank of ships and my ship didn't shoot at it. 

Aside from that it is a weird ship for me to get used to. Torps are pathetically weak at 2/3s the damage of a Ranger torp, it has less damage per torp than the Serov, you know the one that drops 5 at once so has nerfed damage per torp. The massed rocket attack seems neat at the outset and probably will be once I learn the longer lead time, 20 rockets to the Ranger's 12 per pass is nice if I can land them, right now the long prep time is making me miss. The other mass launcher the Serov of course launches 24 much higher damage rockets but spreads them out so far I think it works out to similar numbers on an average pass. The bombs are disappointing it drops 6 in a circular pattern that seems certain to miss half of them every drop on most targets, as opposed to the Ranger which usually can hit at least 2 of its 3 more damaging bombs. 

I will have to play with it more and see, but so far it feels like the stinker you need to get through to get to the interesting ones. 

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6 minutes ago, Darlith said:

What I want to know is why they chose a carrier without any secondaries to be a t6. I mean not like many of them have much of a secondary battery but it would be nice to have something.
 

I hadn't really realized until a co-op battle where a DD got past a flank of ships and my ship didn't shoot at it. 

Aside from that it is a weird ship for me to get used to. Torps are pathetically weak at 2/3s the damage of a Ranger torp, it has less damage per torp than the Serov, you know the one that drops 5 at once so has nerfed damage per torp. The massed rocket attack seems neat at the outset and probably will be once I learn the longer lead time, 20 rockets to the Ranger's 12 per pass is nice if I can land them, right now the long prep time is making me miss. The other mass launcher the Serov of course launches 24 much higher damage rockets but spreads them out so far I think it works out to similar numbers on an average pass. The bombs are disappointing it drops 6 in a circular pattern that seems certain to miss half of them every drop on most targets, as opposed to the Ranger which usually can hit at least 2 of its 3 more damaging bombs. 

I will have to play with it more and see, but so far it feels like the stinker you need to get through to get to the interesting ones. 

::: Points to the VIII Saipan Doubloons :::
spacer.png

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21 minutes ago, Darlith said:

What I want to know is why they chose a carrier without any secondaries to be a t6. I mean not like many of them have much of a secondary battery but it would be nice to have something.

Independence was a lazy choice for tier VI (the model already existed) and really should have been implemented as a premium US CV alongside this line release for this (and other) reasons. Wasp would have been a better fit, but the devs didn’t even produce a new model for Yorktown (just re-used the existing Enterprise model, Star Trek Easter egg and all), so expecting a 100% new ship would be too much to expect from the current WG.

Edited by Nevermore135
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45 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

::: Points to the VIII Saipan Doubloons :::
spacer.png

I mostly ignore the premiums, they generally have unusual properties anyway, plus you buy into them hopefully knowing those traits. This is a tech line ship that one will have to play through if you don't free xp of course. 

Mostly just wanted to complain about the lack of secondaries and this seemed a better place than making a new thread. 

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58 minutes ago, Darlith said:

What I want to know is why they chose a carrier without any secondaries to be a t6. I mean not like many of them have much of a secondary battery but it would be nice to have something.
 

I hadn't really realized until a co-op battle where a DD got past a flank of ships and my ship didn't shoot at it. 

Aside from that it is a weird ship for me to get used to. Torps are pathetically weak at 2/3s the damage of a Ranger torp, it has less damage per torp than the Serov, you know the one that drops 5 at once so has nerfed damage per torp. The massed rocket attack seems neat at the outset and probably will be once I learn the longer lead time, 20 rockets to the Ranger's 12 per pass is nice if I can land them, right now the long prep time is making me miss. The other mass launcher the Serov of course launches 24 much higher damage rockets but spreads them out so far I think it works out to similar numbers on an average pass. The bombs are disappointing it drops 6 in a circular pattern that seems certain to miss half of them every drop on most targets, as opposed to the Ranger which usually can hit at least 2 of its 3 more damaging bombs. 

I will have to play with it more and see, but so far it feels like the stinker you need to get through to get to the interesting ones. 

You do have better fighters, marginally...

The gimmick with Independence seems to be that you can not be functionally deplaned...ever.

In terms of weaponry, yes...damage output is BAD. I'm still trying to get the hang of target selection for maximum game impact.

With the reticle for her level bombers, approach enemy ships from the SIDE for best results. Its not actually a circle, but an elipse that benefits from attacking the broadside of a ship.

It can really hurt light cruisers and bigger DDs.

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4 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

You do have better fighters, marginally...

The gimmick with Independence seems to be that you can not be functionally deplaned...ever.

In terms of weaponry, yes...damage output is BAD. I'm still trying to get the hang of target selection for maximum game impact.

With the reticle for her level bombers, approach enemy ships from the SIDE for best results. Its not actually a circle, but an elipse that benefits from attacking the broadside of a ship.

It can really hurt light cruisers and bigger DDs.

I'll try that with the bombers, blame poor vision on thinking it was a circle. 

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