Sub captains are getting better and better.

[clammboy]

I find that subs are topping the leader board in many more games now. The days of subs pose no real threat and are easy to deal with are kind of gone. I think a lot of sub players are really learning how to use there strentghs avoid detection and become a real thorn in your side.

This probably pertains more so to slow moving BB's especially trying to cap or defend a cap. It can be very diffifcult if the sub player is experienced.

Sub divisions and subs that are 2 tiers above you can really be a problem. I find in a lot of good ships if I'm uptiered my ship can handle most other up tiered ships. However I am having trouble with say a tier 9 Sub when I'm in a tier 7 Lyon. Even worse say a tier 8 Massachusetts is in a tier 10 match which lets face it is almost half the time faces a tier 10 sub . It has no real airstrike range and a good sub Captain will just target you. There are other ships as well just using this as an example.

 I would like to see all ships have at least a standard airstrike range. It's cool that some have a better range but just because you have a good ship it doesn't mean you should have useless airstrike. This is just my opinion on the matter probably doesnt make much of a difference good sub players are getting better at avoiding airstrikes. But some kind of a standard airstike range would be cool.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2023 by clammboy

[Wolfswetpaws]

 

[Yedwy]

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

 

Yeah, this, positon oneself as far away as possible from the predicted sub position, preferabbly in another game... 🤐

[Wolfswetpaws]

2 hours ago, Yedwy said:

Yeah, this, positon oneself as far away as possible from the predicted sub position, preferabbly in another game... 🤐

Since the early Submarine Testing days, when my Mutsu earned her nickname of "Dances with Torpedoes", I have not been afraid to play Submarines or to play against Submarines while sailing a Battleship.

Know your self and know your opponent, and have no fear of the outcome.  "Neh"?  :-)

[clammboy]

53 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Since the early Submarine Testing days, when my Mutsu earned her nickname of "Dances with Torpedoes", I have not been afraid to play Submarines or to play against Submarines while sailing a Battleship.

Know your self and know your opponent, and have no fear of the outcome.  "Neh"?  🙂

I never said I was afraid merley that the odds are stacked against you when playing against tier 10 subs in tier 8 BB with 4k airstrike. I would just like to see a standard airstrike range for BB's regardless of whether people think that BB is OP or not. I realize that you love subs so you maybe a bit sensative not saying nerf anything about subs just give ships airstrike a chance to reach them when pinged. What good is it to see a subs postition if your airstrike is 3k away from reaching it.

[palestreamer]

Not only are they getting good they are in almost every game now. I see subs more than I see CVs.

By the way, your Man With No Name animation cracks me up.

[Kynami]

What I would love to see is a destroyer line built around smoke, many charges of hydrophone, and airstrike depth charges. Give it something like 8km hydrophone semi-spotting which gives you the temporary shimmery outlines where things are and the outline on the mini-map of relative positions and heading. So you'd actually need some degree of skill to land torp hits if nobody else is hard spotting for you.

Would be hilarious to have a destroyer that subs have to actually be more careful of. Plus the ability to send anti-sub airstrikes through fighter cover means CVs can't be lazy about just dumping a fighter squadron for free vision because it will quickly be given an airstrike goose chase. All the while being able to smoke up to either hide itself or aid allies.

[Wolfswetpaws]

4 hours ago, clammboy said:

"I never said I was afraid  ..."

I never said you were.  I quoted and replied to @Yedwy's words.  🙂
 

4 hours ago, clammboy said:

"... merley that the odds are stacked against you when playing against tier 10 subs in tier 8 BB with 4k airstrike. I would just like to see a standard airstrike range for BB's regardless of whether people think that BB is OP or not. I realize that you love subs so you maybe a bit sensative not saying nerf anything about subs just give ships airstrike a chance to reach them when pinged. What good is it to see a subs postition if your airstrike is 3k away from reaching it."

I understand your concerns.  I don't mind discussing them.  

Sometimes I offer humor and/or ways of coping with "right now, as things are" with the awareness that a situation is not "ideal" in the minds of several players.
Hopefully an ideal solution can be found and implemented in the future.  🙂

[CriMiNaL]

9 hours ago, clammboy said:

I would like to see all ships have at least a standard airstrike range

I agree, I beleive the sub should be able to call in an air strike on the red sub if spotted, so long as it is surfaced or at periscope depth

 

10 hours ago, clammboy said:

I think a lot of sub players are really learning how to use there strentghs avoid detection and become a real thorn in your side.

Sub players have had time to learn, if you like a certain type of play style as with any ship, you will work out the things you can do, shouldnt do, what you can get away with and who you can take out before you die.

Ships that get tergeted are the ones who find themselves sitting isolated because they did not chose to push up with their team, and those that just sit bow on going forward a little and reversing, once a sub is broadside to those players its an easy kill, but that is on the BB player, as you have given the sub its oppourtunity.

[HogHammer]

@clammboysaid, " I would like to see all ships have at least a standard airstrike range."

That, my mate, is a room full of thumbs-ups!  👍👍👍.....................👍!

[clammboy]

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

5 hours ago, clammboy said:

 

I never said you were.  I quoted and replied to @Yedwy's words.  🙂
 

Sorry Mr. Wolf I misunderstood. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

1 hour ago, clammboy said:

Sorry Mr. Wolf I misunderstood. 

No worries.  No harm done.  :-)

[Mordt]

The playerbase is so bad! I want it to get better!

Playerbase gets better. 
 

Nono never mind I liked it the old way!

[Wolfswetpaws]

7 minutes ago, Mordt said:

The playerbase is so bad! I want it to get better!

Playerbase gets better. 
 

Nono never mind I liked it the old way!

Christina Aguilera - Keeps Gettin' Better (Official Video)
https://youtu.be/gkPxgUshpec?si=oGeWT5R71din20bB

Shakira - Ready for the Good Times (from Live & Off the Record)
https://youtu.be/T0PhcLDe2HI?si=wDh5ngoqzwCm1FPy

Taylor Swift - Shake It Off
https://youtu.be/nfWlot6h_JM?si=pt8u0-3ifIkEFUs1

 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Wolfswetpaws

[Dareios]

as a counter to 'all BBs should have same ASW range', then all subs should have torps that can at least reach that ASW range.

If you want the minimum ASW range for every BB to be 11km, and no BBs to be balanced with having shorter ASW, then its only fair for the minimum sub torp range for every sub to be 11km too, and no subs being balanced by having torps that travel less far.

this before we even get into the hornets nest of DD detection versus torp range and defence against same, or different surface ships having different shell ranges as a balancing mechanism.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

22 hours ago, clammboy said:

However I am having trouble with say a tier 9 Sub when I'm in a tier 7 Lyon.

Now that, my friend, is an encounter which is simply impossible! 

Your point is otherwise well taken, but if it comes down to your BB alone to take the cap to win against their + 2 tiers sub, I would venture to suggest that something terrible has happened to your team and that you vs. the sub is not an isolated problem...

(If the sub is badly driven, OTOH... I've caught and killed a sub in this situation and gone on to take the cap.)

[clammboy]

19 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Now that, my friend, is an encounter which is simply impossible! 

Your point is otherwise well taken, but if it comes down to your BB alone to take the cap to win against their + 2 tiers sub, I would venture to suggest that something terrible has happened to your team and that you vs. the sub is not an isolated problem...

(If the sub is badly driven, OTOH... I've caught and killed a sub in this situation and gone on to take the cap.)

Yes but in tier 7 the games have a way of going terrible wrong and now the sub captains are not automatic pushovers . That sub Caption in your cap can have 2 kills and is top of the board nowadays. They are so much better then 6 months ago it seems. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by clammboy

[EXEC_HYMNE_Ar_tonelico]

Not every sub players is as good or bad as the other. It's the same for DD or CV players. Sometimes you have a capable one on the enemy team, other times the enemy submarine dies 3 minutes into the game. It's the nature of random battles.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

32 minutes ago, clammboy said:

They are so much better then 6 months ago it seems. 

This is no surprise. The extended testing would see subs in and out of the game as changes were made, and while a few players became very skilled with them, the vast majority of would-be sub drivers probably didn't have time to build up any ongoing skill set before the subs were snatched away again - or, like me, elected not to play to any great degree until the model had stabilized.

Now that they are in the game for keeps, the rise of a population of "ordinary" sub players (not just unicum aces)whose skill is improving with ongoing daily experience is inevitable. 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Ensign Cthulhu

[clammboy]

7 hours ago, Dareios said:

as a counter to 'all BBs should have same ASW range', then all subs should have torps that can at least reach that ASW range.

If you want the minimum ASW range for every BB to be 11km, and no BBs to be balanced with having shorter ASW, then its only fair for the minimum sub torp range for every sub to be 11km too, and no subs being balanced by having torps that travel less far.

I am afraid that this would not work to well . A sub who's torps can not reasch a BBs ASW range still has the option to not ping. He can then go undetected get close and still fire torps. He has options he can shootgun which takes skill or free fire torps without being detected. A sub is not on the surface it already has a nice advantage. Other slow moving ships have no real options if there ASW cant reach the sub. They can run or they can try and get in range which usually ends up in death.

[Wolfswetpaws]

20 minutes ago, clammboy said:

A sub is not on the surface

Is relying upon team-spotting or a detection consumable or on stale mini-map information and the player's intuition.
Otherwise, the submarine is either surfaced or at periscope depth.

Put it another way.  If the Submarine is on the surface and undetected (while detecting *you*) then it is inside a Battleship's main-gun range. 
Same for periscope depth.
 

Edited August 25, 2023 by Wolfswetpaws

[clammboy]

10 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Is relying upon team-spotting or a detection consumable or on stale mini-map information and the player's intuition.
Otherwise, the submarine is either surfaced or at periscope depth.

Put it another way.  If the Submarine is on the surface and undetected (while detecting *you*) then it is inside a Battleship's main-gun range. 
Same for periscope depth.
 

There is a counter for every point of view but I dont want to go down that rabbit hole because you are a friend. Lets just say we agree to disagree.

[Wolfswetpaws]

2 minutes ago, clammboy said:

There is a counter for every point of view but I dont want to go down that rabbit hole because you are a friend. Lets just say we agree to disagree.

"No offense / None taken."  Agree to disagree.  🙂

[AdmiralMcintosh]

What we need is a submarine rework, which I think it should be that all submarines have their homing torpedoes removed and the torpedo damage reduced by 50%, this would reduce the shotgunning that's been happening. Then as for the asw make it have a standard range of 12km for all ships and increase damage by 40% cause it's too weak in it's current state. I think this would make submarines a little more balanced.

[Yedwy]

2 hours ago, AdmiralMcintosh said:

What we need is a submarine rework, which I think it should be that all submarines have their homing torpedoes removed and the torpedo damage reduced by 50%, this would reduce the shotgunning that's been happening. Then as for the asw make it have a standard range of 12km for all ships and increase damage by 40% cause it's too weak in it's current state. I think this would make submarines a little more balanced.

Actually IMHO the only thing that needs to change to make shotgunning much less of an issue is to make the f sub behave like any other ship shen hydro is used so within the ship detection range she is visible no matter the depth ie that makes any high tier cruiser and many DDs and BBs able to see them 5+ km out and spam them to death or force them to veer off the fact they made them undetectable is creating half of the problems...

The other half of the problems is the "super saturation" and damage reduction they enjoy, the homing while annoying and non historic is IMO actually the least offending od the issues