Why are people frequently leaving the center (B - cap) completely alone?!

[OT2_2]

In Randoms with classic maps, where caps are divided horizontally people tend to leave the center (B- cap) almost immediately, hastily when battle starts. That's at least my observation. I try to make good use of it by sailing slowly but steadily towards B - cap, most often in a BB and dishing out in both directions (A + C). Not overextending, I reach my target quite often pretty much unchallenged with high battle impact. Below you'll find a typical example from last night.

20231117_230436_PJSB508-Kii_14_Atlantic.wowsreplay

Edited November 18, 2023 by OT2_2

[Frostbow]

It will depend on a lot of factors. Map, island cover, the presence of CVs, ship type, team composition, etc., can influence a player's decision where to go. I can understand why players would go for the flanks, perhaps to avoid crossfire from enemy ships.

The only thing that I don't want to happen is another foolish lemming train hiding behind an island at Grid Square H9.

[Admiral_Karasu]

Also, if you have a two DD team match, the DD's typically go to the flank caps because that's where the team will go. You could, also, reason that if there are two DD's, one cap will remain 'vacant', in a sense, and you could try and guess that maybe the enemy DD's will not try to take the mid cap.

[Kawaii_shirasu_azusa]

vision or crossfire.

sniper always hide in mid because they can see  nearly anything and could hit everything

or they just wanna follow their team

Edited November 18, 2023 by Kawaii_shirasu_azusa

[OT2_2]

In the first place I do believe that leaving your assigned place, i.e. giving it up, is a very bad and wrong decision. You enable the "Reds" to split your team in two without any bigger effort and let them dictate how the specific battle develops. Furthermore, I believe that people very often are influenced by fear of "dying alone", many have no ideas of their own how to play or to position correctly. Last but not least those influential "game experts" like Flamu, Mountbatten etc., who are repeating stereotypically, "go to the flank and push / play from there" ... and many people are doing so of course. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

2 hours ago, OT2_2 said:

In the first place I do believe that leaving your assigned place, i.e. giving it up, is a very bad and wrong decision. You enable the "Reds" to split your team in two without any bigger effort and let them dictate how the specific battle develops. Furthermore, I believe that people very often are influenced by fear of "dying alone", many have no ideas of their own how to play or to position correctly. Last but not least those influential "game experts" like Flamu, Mountbatten etc., who are repeating stereotypically, "go to the flank and push / play from there" ... and many people are doing so of course. 

Well, it is customary for the teams to split, that's how most people prefer to play the battles. You are right that you are not supposed to abandon your assigned flank, but the problem is where do the players who spawn in the middle go?

[OT2_2]

7 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

Well, it is customary for the teams to split, that's how most people prefer to play the battles. You are right that you are not supposed to abandon your assigned flank, but the problem is where do the players who spawn in the middle go?

Stay at your assigned place at the center cap and try to fight of the "Reds" and / or go capping yourself. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by OT2_2

[Admiral_Karasu]

1 hour ago, OT2_2 said:

Stay at your assigned place at the center cap and try to fight of the "Reds" and / or go capping yourself. 

🤔

[tocqueville8]

Because they've been told you need to "flank to crossfire"...

...which is often nonsense, as both teams will usually beeline towards both flanks and run into nose-in enemies, preventing any early flanking, while it's precisely those who stay middle who are going to have crossfire on those beelines.

DDs might not care about crossfires, but they do care about not going alone where a superior gunboat or a CV can easily sink them.

[OT2_2]

43 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

🤔

I didn't mean to be rude, I just wanted to clarify what people should do when assigned to the center of the map. Not more not less. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

19 minutes ago, OT2_2 said:

I didn't mean to be rude, I just wanted to clarify what people should do when assigned to the center of the map. Not more not less. 

No need to apologize. What I was wondering was that what would be the best approach. The problem is two fold, at least. First, nobody wants to be caught in the center (despite what @tocqueville8 is saying) because you become a sitting duck, especially without smoke, or if there's a CV who decides to focus on you. Additionally, any ship that is in the center is not at the flanks which is bad, if the idea is to bring concentrated fire power into the fight. I also don't think you can actually effectively fire from the map center, unless you do it from the cover of smoke. However, leaving the center vacant leaves you with a gap between the flanks. In Standard mode battle that can be a fatal mistake.

[tocqueville8]

4 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

First, nobody wants to be caught in the center (despite what @tocqueville8 is saying) because you become a sitting duck, especially without smoke, or if there's a CV who decides to focus on you. 

Tbf, no one wants to "get caught" anywhere: the very expression suggests being in trouble.

My point is that, contrary to the hope many seem to have, that they'll get to the enemy's broadside by going wide and around them, one usually finds more broadsides staying closer to the middle (as most enemies will do the opposite), at least in the early game.

My other reason to consider staying middle is that it keeps more options open: depending on how the match develops, you can push a flank or buttress the other, you're more flexible. If you go for the flank, especially all the way to the flank, you'll often bounce against a wall of enemies doing the same, and then it's a standoff. Even if you win it, you'll be far from the fight on the other flank, meaning idle time as you move to join it.

Edited November 18, 2023 by tocqueville8

[Admiral_Karasu]

2 minutes ago, tocqueville8 said:

No one wants to "get caught" anywhere: the very expression suggests being at a disadvantage.

My point is that, contrary to the hope many seem to have, that they'll get to the enemy's broadside by going wide and around them, one usually finds e more broadsides staying closer to the middle (as most enemies will do the opposite), at least in the early game.

My other reason to consider staying middle is that it keeps more options open: depending on how the match develops, you can push a flank or buttress the other, you're more flexible. If you go for the flank, especially all the way to the flank, you'll often bounce against a wall of enemies doing the same, and then it's a standoff. Even if you win it, you'll be far from the fight on the other flank, meaning idle time as you move to join it.

It's a good theory, I say that.  Let's say that the poorer your concealment, the further back you need to stay in the mid position. Not a problem if you also have a good range, and as long as at least one DD is in a flanking position to spot (unless a CV is doing this but a DD would do it more reliably).  The mid position will allow you to support whichever flank needs it at mid battle.

I think part of the problem is lack of team coordination, and the rush for the caps combined. Additionally, the teams are mirroring each others' positions and movements. In other words, someone has to start the flanking maneuvers, or there's not going to be much anything happening. As a result, both teams will be doing it simultaneously, meaning that neither team will gain any advantage from it, except through player interaction as it unfolds.

In practice, if you do spawn in the mid part of the line up, you can try to take advantage of that by delaying your own engagement to see how the flank situation will develop which is what you are suggesting. Your choices then are either to go for opportunistic fire from the mid position and later shift to either flank, or move into support one or the other flank right away. With a triple cap zone map, there's also going to be something developing closer to your position.

If this is something that really occurs in most battles, I haven't paid attention to. I probably should do that from now on. I'd also have to start thinking if there's a way to counter the problem that enemy 'mid fielders' might pose to my own team flanks.

[Unlooky]

22 hours ago, OT2_2 said:

In Randoms with classic maps, where caps are divided horizontally people tend to leave the center (B- cap) almost immediately, hastily when battle starts. That's at least my observation. I try to make good use of it by sailing slowly but steadily towards B - cap, most often in a BB and dishing out in both directions (A + C). Not overextending, I reach my target quite often pretty much unchallenged with high battle impact. Below you'll find a typical example from last night.

20231117_230436_PJSB508-Kii_14_Atlantic.wowsreplay 2.3 MB · 3 downloads

Cruisers and BBs typically avoid the center since trying to push through it results in getting crossfired. DD players may feel that they have insufficient support, and therefore leave to a position with more team support. Generally you should at least attempt to capture/deny the center cap for the point gain, but not being able to cap it is minor at most. It's much less important than either of the other flanks. 

[SureBridge]

There are positions in many maps where Radar coverage of a flanking cap will also cover the center cap, and the flanks can often shoot into the center cap. DD's by their nature operate ahead of the rest of the team, and entering the center cap and being hit with RADAR is often a quick trip back to port, especially if there are secondary specced BB's in the area when the radar goes off. 

You may find that the center cap is contested more often in lower tiers (below T7) where there is less RADAR. 

[mashed68]

Crossfire, plain and simple. 

[meatgrindr]

     Anybody ever use a range card?  the middle is a tricky place to be.

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

Most of the team is usually divided into two flanks A and C, because ships with worse conceal (cruisers, BBs) dont wanna push B because they will probably die upon spotted by crossfire from both flanks or focused by subs/CVs. This means that good DD players usually dont go there because they won have any backup and if you encounter an enemy DD in B you can bet you're sweet Azz he has a Petro, Des Moines or something else supporting him (Murphys law).

You also need to account CVs, radars, hybrids, DD huntin Divs, DD killing DDs etc etc.

So, if I for example spawn mid in my Vampire II and there is no radars and no CVs ... I will probably push B because I can deal with whatever in my OP DD, but if any of those is in play  (which they usually are) I wait until mid to late game when I know where all the players are to push B. Other then that you just hoping for luck .... and "Luck" is NOT a tactic! 

[Wowzery]

I haven't played random in years, but it was there as well.  As a BB main I never went center, very hard to angle against threats from two different directions.

To me, the center is a place where you are reactive to the gameplay.  Playing a BB which can be slow to turn, slow turrets, and maybe even slow in speed you don't want to play reactive but proactive.  Its much easier to be reactive in a DD over a BB.