21pt Capt's the grind is insane

[AdmiralThunder]

So I have never been bashful about my dislike of the Capt Skill rework a couple years ago that moved an elite Capt from 19pts to 21pts. IMHO the extra 2pts, that cost 70% of the grind from 0-19, just don't provide any real benefit when combined with the new skills. Basically we ended up with the same overall skill impact at 21 pts we had at 19pts but with the need to grind another 1.2 Million CXP on the Capt to get it to elite. So as said, not a fan.

I had 54 19pt Capt's at the time of the rework and quite a few within 1-2 pts of elite. After the rework, and with the new grind requirement on so many Capt's I WAS done with, it just took the desire to get elite Capt's away. If I get them great but I don't sweat it anymore. I have a friend whom I write to often and one of the things they like to hear about is my progress in the game (they don't play but love to hear about it). I just got a new letter from them and one of their questions was how many elite Capt's do I have now. I went and looked and the count is up to 33. So years later and with thousands upon thousands of games played I am not even back to the 54 elite Capt's I started out with when they were 19pt. Just blows my mind how far WG moved the goal post on us. Granted I have taken a couple new Capt (ie; got them after the rework) to 21 so I could have got more of the original 19 to 21 but I wouldn't even reach 40 never mind 54.

Honestly, I am surprised I have this many really. Just not something I think a lot about anymore. Only really looked into it and counted because my friend asked. So how many elite (21pt) Capt's do you have now vs pre-rework (19pt)?

This is what I am sending my friend. He likes it when I print out pictures of the stuff in game. I actually do a sheet for each ship I get with its picture in port on top and then all its stats below. I will do historical write ups on the ships for him too when they are real ships. He has some "issues" so he looks forward to the letters as do I sending them to him.

US & British:

German & Japanese:

Russian & French:

Italian, EU, Pan-American, & Pan-Asian:

Edited November 12, 2023 by AdmiralThunder

[Asym]

5 minutes ago, AdmiralThunder said:

So I have never been bashful about my dislike of the Capt Skill rework a couple years ago that moved an elite Capt from 19pts to 21pts. IMHO the extra 2pts, that cost 70% of the grind from 0-19, just don't provide any real benefit when combined with the new skills. Basically we ended up with the same overall skill impact at 21 pts we had at 19pts but with the need to grind another 1.2 Million CXP on the Capt to get it to elite. So as said, not a fan.

...

Honestly, I am surprised I have this many really. Just not something I think a lot about anymore. Only really looked into it and counted because my friend asked. So how many elite (21pt) Capt's do you have now vs pre-rework (19pt)?

As I said years ago, and provided comparison data from Mechwarrior Online, that showed what they had done two years before In MWO, is exactly what WOWS was doing in reality:  the facade that player "choice" was a benefit to the player.  But, in reality, we lost about 15% of our overall ship efficiency and the cost of the grind to 21 simply was a disaster financially.  I have 25 and a bunch of 19 pointers that will eventually, get to 21 but not because I am trying....

Before 20 and after 25.  And, a lot of 19 (about 12 of them) pointers over 350 ships.

You hated it and I hated it.........and, here we are earning less and paying more for the same thing.  Wow, such a retention tool......

[HogHammer]

@AdmiralThundernice accomplishment.  Bravo!

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

I got one captain to 19 right before the switch...and I had enough freeXP to get him to 21.

I had a number of captains close to 19 at the time of the switch.

Years later, I STILL have only one 21 points captain.

It was a HUGE middle finger to me.

[SunkCostFallacy]

I arrived after the Captains skill rework ... so it's always been 21 points for me.

That having been said, I've got (I think, because I can't be bothered logging in to look) 5 captains that I've maxxed out and the only reason that I've got them that far is because I put them on a premium ship that I play a lot (i.e. My Salem)

Hell ... Lutjens is on my GK and I haven't managed to finish that last point on him. Assuming that WG haven't ruined Asymmetric Mode I might get him there.

To be honest, there seems little point in worrying about getting a captain to 21 points. With COOP getting more frenzied, getting enough XP to level a captain is getting harder and the skills are getting less significant anyway.

[CFagan_1987]

My experience is that once you get two 21 pointers on ships you play alot you will get more fairly quickly via converting elite commander xp 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

1 hour ago, AdmiralThunder said:

So how many elite (21pt) Capt's do you have now vs pre-rework (19pt)?

Nine 19-pointers before, seventeen 21 pointers now.

A majority (10 by my count) of the 21 pointers were not direct promotions from existing 19 pointers before the change, some being promoted from as low as 12. The edge case is Matilda Kelly, who was available for the earning as a 19 pointer right out of the box.

At the current time, I have at least one 21 pointer in every nation in the game. Because of the change that enables us to jump straight back into battle with the same ship and/or captain, and the ability to set a commander up as optimally as possible for premium ships of multiple types in the same navy, I no longer have the same requirement as I used to for multiple top-rank commanders in the same fleet. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Ensign Cthulhu

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

I enjoy that I can use ship freeXP for upping captains...and the lack of ships to buy with it means I sometimes have enough to throw into my captain upgrade process.

[oldblackdog]

When the change took place, I had three 19pt captains, and just enough ECXP to promote one guy to 21 pts. Now, years later, I have finally earned my fourth 21 pointer. Maybe I'll get a couple of more 21 pointers in the new year...that grind seems to be endless. 

[Lord_Slayer]

I did have a couple of 19pts before the Skill change.

I have about the same amount in 21pts now, mostly through grinding the Supership, and the upper tiered missions alot.

The rest are my goto ships and grind up over time.

I do keep a couple of lower boosters on my 21pt captained ships as it goes straight to the Elite Commander XP.

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

12 minutes ago, oldblackdog said:

When the change took place, I had three 19pt captains, and just enough ECXP to promote one guy to 21 pts. Now, years later, I have finally earned my fourth 21 pointer. Maybe I'll get a couple of more 21 pointers in the new year...that grind seems to be endless. 

It's supposed to be endless.

I have no doubt that when I start getting close to having more 21 point captains, we will have another rework to 23 pointers...and then to 25 points.

That's the business model.

[Folded_1000_Times]

Its not too bad, i naturally got enough points because all my 10s are 21 pointers so i just accumulate enough captain XP to get one instantly to 21 pts whenever i need it. Just play 10s with packages on them (the 10k steel for the bonus package and camo is a decent deal) 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

9 minutes ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I have no doubt that when I start getting close to having more 21 point captains, we will have another rework to 23 pointers...and then to 25 points.

I promoted five just this year, three of them from 12 or 13 points, and that's with a wife, two kids who need to be picked up from and taken to activities, and a day job. What have you been doing?

[Daniel_Allan_Clark]

33 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

I promoted five just this year, three of them from 12 or 13 points, and that's with a wife, two kids who need to be picked up from and taken to activities, and a day job. What have you been doing?

I play less than you do...this isn't my main game type.

[Pugilistic]

2 hours ago, Daniel_Allan_Clark said:

I enjoy that I can use ship freeXP for upping captains...and the lack of ships to buy with it means I sometimes have enough to throw into my captain upgrade process.

This. 

Im up to 69 after I promoted a Commonwealth commander yesterday to get an alternate Furious/IRPR build for Yukon. 

[MidnightPhoenix07]

6 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

So I have never been bashful about my dislike of the Capt Skill rework a couple years ago that moved an elite Capt from 19pts to 21pts. IMHO the extra 2pts, that cost 70% of the grind from 0-19, just don't provide any real benefit when combined with the new skills. Basically we ended up with the same overall skill impact at 21 pts we had at 19pts but with the need to grind another 1.2 Million CXP on the Capt to get it to elite. So as said, not a fan.

I agree, more or less. It was pretty clear from the start that some of the stated “goals” (specifically the increased build diversity and being able to “take more skills”) were never really going to be a thing. There are always going to be optimal skill choices, and we’ve really only added a couple build sub variants (for example, the speedy flanker BB build with Brisk). And with the points increase on some of the skills, all that happened was adding an extra 1.2 million cxp to the grind to get a similar build.

The only real benefit of the skill rework (IMO) was the separate skill trees for each type. For experienced players with plenty of premiums, you could now use one elite captain in a bunch of premiums and farm ecxp while having an optimal build no matter what captain or premium you used. New players with just a couple premiums could also use them as trainers without worrying about build compatibility as much as before. The extra 5% ecxp you get on non-elite commanders is nice, but doesn’t really make up for the extra grind we have now.

 

6 hours ago, AdmiralThunder said:

So how many elite (21pt) Capt's do you have now vs pre-rework (19pt)?

Before the rework I had 14 19-point commanders with only a couple nations covered. I had enough ecxp to promote two to 21 points right away, and prioritized ones that had the most premiums they could cover (Yamamoto and Halsey).

Right now I have 13 21-point commanders, with at least one in almost every nation (still missing one for Spain, the Netherlands, Europe, Pan Asia, and the Commonwealth). I have more than enough ecxp to promote a bunch up to 21 points though, as soon as they get up to the t10 of their line. Some of those new 21-point captains were promoted from old 19-pointers, others were brought all the way up from lower levels, especially for non-US and Russian commanders.

I’d say I’ve broken even as much as you can in the new system, and am actually ahead in some ways with more nations covered than I had before, and the ability to make a bunch of additional 21-pointers whenever I want. But I also went into the rework with enough of an ecxp stockpile to be able to promote a couple commanders to the new elite, and had the resources and fleet to support the new grind for the last two years. For new players, I can’t even imagine how tall that 2.1 million xp mountain looks. 

[SunkCostFallacy]

I decided to go have a look and see how much Elite Commander XP I've got ... because I just haven't bothered with it. I tend to just level them up as I play.

I guess I can afford to level up a few captains if the urge takes me

 

[Colonel Potter]

Nice. Definitely becomes easier once you get a few 21 point captains from the accumulated Elite Captain Experience. Haven't kept track how many I have, but have at least one for every nation except Pan-America. I think I had 25 the last time I checked, but have upgraded a few since I last counted.

Edit: Decided to log in and check because I was curious. Have 33.

6 - IJN

5 - USN

4 - USSR

3 - Germany

3 - United Kingdom

3 - France

2 - Italy

2 - Pan-Asia

2 - Europe

1 - The Netherlands

1 - Commonwealth

1 - Spain

0 - Pan-America

Edited November 13, 2023 by Colonel Potter

[Verytis]

We could consider a bit of a cop out, but this isn't really something veterans worry about with their cap reserves. As such there was no real backlash. It just gives them a bit more to do.

We also benefited from some other changes:

• Captain skills are now divided into classes, making it easy to transfer a select few of them between multiple premiums ships.
• We can also indirectly use credits to boost new captains, albeit expensive rates.

It is the newbies who'll have a harder time. They can't utilise the benefits while being hampered by the longer grind. It is indeed slow until you start getting your 1st maxed captain.

[Wulf_Ace]

33 minutes ago, Verytis said:

We could consider a bit of a cop out, but this isn't really something veterans worry about with their cap reserves. As such there was no real backlash. It just gives them a bit more to do.

We also benefited from some other changes:

• Captain skills are now divided into classes, making it easy to transfer a select few of them between multiple premiums ships.
• We can also indirectly use credits to boost new captains, albeit expensive rates.

It is the newbies who'll have a harder time. They can't utilise the benefits while being hampered by the longer grind. It is indeed slow until you start getting your 1st maxed captain.

Isnt that with every game that has been long out there. Newbies have ultra hard time to catch up beacouse there is so much things to grind.

but

With economic boosts that can be much easier ( if you are willing to buy at least blue ones) plus special commander can be easly trained to 21, non special commanders are hard to grind.

To a newbie I would suggest getting special commander and a premium ship and 21 pt captain will come soon.

[Verytis]

18 minutes ago, Wulf_Ace said:

Isnt that with every game that has been long out there. Newbies have ultra hard time to catch up beacouse there is so much things to grind.

but

With economic boosts that can be much easier ( if you are willing to buy at least blue ones) plus special commander can be easly trained to 21, non special commanders are hard to grind.

To a newbie I would suggest getting special commander and a premium ship and 21 pt captain will come soon.

TBF most newbies shouldn't be too worried as long as they have level 10 for CE.  Improving their gameplay will help far more than most basic stat modifiers.

Now if only they did that.

 

[Efros]

Like AT the quest for Elite Captains was basically drowned by the rework. Having had more than 40, IIRC, 19 point captains at the time of the rework I just found that I have 20 21 point captains now. TBH I could care less.

[Scrubby_McScrub]

I have 44 at 21 points and 2 at 20 points. 

Once you have quite a few, and you are ultimately playing every battle with a 21 point captain, the ECXP just starts really adding up quick. I never have to grind my captains out. I just birth a 21 pointer with the banked ECXP. The only reason I have 2 @ 20 is because their last skill was a 1 pointer and wasn't worth it with all these new ships coming out. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Scrubby_McScrub

[Kruzenstern]

I don't really play all that much compared to many other players, yet I find that the 21 point commanders just come along without me even trying very hard, and every one you get makes getting more that much easier. Alas, I play pretty much exclusively Operations and Coop, and every Operation I play is with a blue CXP booster and usually all other blue boosters as well (except XP boosters on prem ships and credit-boosters on non-prem ships for obvious reasons). And of course perma-premium-account (360d around christmas used to be dirt cheap). And while especially the Free-XP-boosters run scarce occasionally, I somehow always have blue CXPs in abundant supply. I only do like 3-4 complete BPs per year, but those with a vengeance to farm the blue booster crates for extra levels. And I try to pick up any blue boosters offered for a reasonable price (regrettably they are often unreasonably expensive). I do usually shell out big (and receive big) on Satan crates, which besides ships yields a big reserve of blue boosters. I wonder though how nerfed this years Santa crates will be with WG being so stingy lately...

Edited November 13, 2023 by Kruzenstern

[OldSchoolGaming_Youtube]

For me it was perfect because I had som many 10-12 pointers so I used that function at the time to use credits and "Kill of" a lot of mid level captains to fill upp all my legendary and strong captains to 21. Also the change that you could use them all more Premiums and classes was also perfect. This means that since I mostly play ONE strong tech tree ship per nation and then mostly just strong premiums I can have all my 21 legendarys trained on that strong silver ship but also switch him around on the rest of the Premiums I play.

So I get legendary captains buffs in almost ALL games I play.