German Light Cruiser line(updated and rebalanced!)

[MBT808]

German Light Cruisers

The following is an updated and rebalanced version of my article from the WoWs form. Mostly balanced changes, cleaning up the formating for better readability, and the addition of a Super Ship(since they weren't a thing when I initially put this togetther). Before I go any further, yes, I'm aware of the 15cm destroyers. Yes, I'm aware that their sorta light cruisers already but WG decided their destroyers so that leaves Light Cruisers still open. With that out of the way, on to the article.

Branch Details:

• Tiers II to VII consist of lightly armor and fairly maneuverable light cruisers(Heavy cruisers move over to be a sub branch with the implementation of this line).
• Tier VIII acts as the transition point, gaining heavy cruiser plating while being equipped with 15cm guns in four triple mounts.
• Tiers IX to XI consist of ships with heavier armament in the form of the 170mm guns and heavy cruiser plating(Mainz had heavy cruiser plating early in development, WG like to break their own rules as well, a light cruiser with heavy cruiser plating as a selling point will happen with the current rate of power creep).
• Starting at tier VII, the german light cruisers get access to Speed boost with a moderate duration and slightly increased boost amount compared to the standard consumable.
• The line has access to torpedoes from the 12.8cm branch of destroyers, however their reload is below average compared to other german ships.
• New ships: Tier VII mannheim, Tier VIII Seydlitz, Tier IX Irene, Tier IX Freya(event premium), Tier X Kaiserin Augusta, Tier ★ Hertha

Balance Changes:

• German heavy cruisers tiers VII to XI: Improved dispersion on secondary battery
• German Tier VII cruiser Munchen: Secondary dispersion changed to use the same dispersion formula as Napoli.
• German Cruisers Tier IX Siegfried, Tier IX Agir, Tier VI Graf Spee: Improved dispersion on the secondary battery.
• German Tier IX cruiser Admiral Schroeder: Secondary dispersion changed to use the same dispersion formula as american battleships and german battlecruisers.

Ships:

Tier VII Mannheim

Description:

An M-class light cruiser. Compared to Munchen, Mannheim has access to the speed boost consumable, better torpedoes, and improved shells. This comes at the cost of a lower base speed and a slower reload. Anti-aircraft armament is a different composition, focusing more on the mid-range as opposed to the close range aura. Mannheim utilizes the same secondary dispersion as Napoli on her secondaries(So that when the secondaries do engage, they have a decent chance to deal damage).

Tier VII Mannheim	Stock Hull	Hull(B)+FCS upgrade
Suvivability	HP: 28,900 Plating: 16mm Torpedo protection: 8%	HP: 31,000 Plating: 16mm Torpedo protection: 8%
Main Battery	(4x2) 15cm/55 SK C/28 in a turret	No change
MB Range & Dispersion	16km Sigma: 2.0 Maximum Dispersion Horiz: 134m Maximum Dispersion Verti: 76m	17.6km Sigma: 2.0 Maximum Dispersion Horiz: 156m Maximum Dispersion Verti: 91m
MB Traverse & ROF	11rpm – 5.5s 180° turn time: 20s	No change
MB HE	150mm Spr.Gr L/4.5 875m/s Fire chance: 8% Penetration: 38mm Damage: 1,700	No change
MB AP	150mm P.Spr.Gr. L/3.8 Ausf. B 875m/s Pen angle: 45-60° Penetration at 10km: 110mm Damage: 3,800	No change
Secondary Armament	(2x2) 10.5cm Dop. L. C/37 Shell: HE 900m/s Reload: 20rpm – 3s Sigma: 1.0 Dispersion: 150m Range: 6.3km Penetration: 26mm Damage: 1,200 Fire Chance: 5%	No change
Torpedoes	(2x4) 533mm Vierling – G7 Steinbutt Damage: 14,400 Reload: 100s Range: 8km Speed: 65 knots Detectability: 1.4km Reaction time: 7s Chance of flooding: 235%	No change
AA Armament	(2x2) 10.5cm Dop. L. C/37 Range: 0.1km – 5.2km DPS: 45.5 Flak: 1 + 0 Flak damage: 1,330 (4x2) 3.7cm Flakzwilling 30 Range: 0.1km – 3.5km DPS: 28 (4x4) 2cm flakvierling Range: 0.1km – 2.0km DPS: 78	(2x2) 10.5cm Dop. L. C/37 Range: 0.1km – 5.2km DPS: 45.5 Flak: 1 + 0 Flak damage: 1,330 (6x2) 3.7cm Flak M42 Range: 0.1km – 3.5km DPS: 153 (4x2) 3cm flakzwilling 103/38 Range: 0.1km – 3.0km DPS: 72
Maneuverability	Speed: 35 knots Turn radius: 660m Ruddershift: 10.1s	Speed: 35 knots Turn radius: 660m Ruddershift: 8.7s
Concealment	Surface: 10.9km Smoke: 5.2km Air: 5.6km	No change
Consumables	Damage Control(slot 1): Charges: ∞ Duration: 5s Reload: 60s Hydroacoustic search(slot 2): Range: 5.5km(surface)/3.5km(torpedo) Charges: 3 Duration: 110s Reload: 120s Engine Boost(slot 3): Maximum speed: +10% Charges: 3 Duration: 60s Reload: 120s Fighter(slot 3): Number of fighters: 3 Charges: 4 Radius: 3km Duration: 60s Reload: 60s	No change

Tier VIII Seydlitz

Description:

This is Seydlitz as it would've been completed in its light cruiser configuration as opposed to the partial conversion to the carrier Weser. It features the proper turrets and guns that had been proposed for the ship instead of the 15cm/60 Drh Tr C/25 turrets we see on Mainz. Instead it uses the triple turret that would've been designed for it based on the Drh Tr C/28 twin turret we find on several german ships currently(Look at tier VIII cruiser Schill for visual reference). However it does make use of fictional Ausf. B shells with improved penetration, reduced air drag and overall energy retention(and flatter arcs). These shells will give overall similar ballistic performance to Mainz's. Several key differences between the two ships such as the torpedoes(range/tubes), consumables, and a different composition of anti-aircraft armaments.

Tier VIII Seydlitz	Stock Hull	Hull(B)+FCS upgrade
Suvivability	HP: 38,200 Plating: 27mm Torpedo protection: 17%	HP: 41,500 Plating: 27mm Torpedo protection: 17%
Main Battery	(4x3) 15cm/55 SK C/28 on a Drh Tr C/34 mount	No change
MB Range & Dispersion	15.8km Sigma: 2.0 Maximum Dispersion Horiz: 137m Maximum Dispersion Verti: 81m	17.4km Sigma: 2.0 Maximum Dispersion Horiz: 153m Maximum Dispersion Verti: 92m
MB Traverse & ROF	10rpm – 6s 180° turn time: 20s	No change
MB HE	150mm Spr.Gr L/4.5 Ausf. B 875m/s Fire chance: 8% Penetration: 38mm Damage: 1,700	No change
MB AP	150mm P.Spr.Gr. L/3.8 Ausf. B 875m/s Pen angle: 45-60° Penetration at 10km: 110mm Damage: 3,800	No change
Secondary Armament	(6x2) 10.5cm Dop. L. C/37 Shell: HE 900m/s Reload: 20rpm – 3s Sigma: 1.0 Dispersion: 352m Range: 7.6km Penetration: 26mm Damage: 1,200 Fire Chance: 5%	No change
Torpedoes	(4x3) 533mm Drilling – G7 Schildbutt Damage: 14,400 Reload: 80s Range: 9.5km Speed: 66 knots Detectability: 1.4km Reaction time: 7s Chance of flooding: 235%	No change
AA Armament	(6x2) 10.5cm Dop. L. C/37 Range: 0.1km – 5.2km DPS: 126 Flak: 5 + 1 Flak damage: 1,400 (8x2) 3.7cm Flakzwilling 30 Range: 0.1km – 3.5km DPS: 60 (4x4) 2cm flakvierling Range: 0.1km – 2.0km DPS: 156 (6x1) 2cm flak 38 Range: 0.1km – 2.0km DPS: 54	(6x2) 10.5cm Dop. L. C/37 Range: 0.1km – 5.2km DPS: 126 Flak: 5 + 1 Flak damage: 1,400 (6x1) 5.5cm Gerat 58 Range: 0.1km – 4.0km DPS: 192 (6x4) 3cm flakvierling 103/38 Range: 0.1km – 3.0km DPS: 174 (8x2) 3cm flakzwilling 103/38 Range: 0.1km – 3.0km DPS: 152
Maneuverability	Speed: 32 knots Turn radius: 720m Ruddershift: 14.5s	Speed: 32 knots Turn radius: 720m Ruddershift: 11.1s
Concealment	Surface: 14.4km Smoke: 6.8km Air: 7.0km	No change
Consumables	Damage Control(slot 1): Charges: ∞ Duration: 5s Reload: 60s Hydroacoustic search(slot 2): Range: 6km(surface)/4km(torpedo) Charges: 3 Duration: 120s Reload: 120s Engine Boost(slot 3): Maximum speed: +10% Charges: 3 Duration: 60s Reload: 120s Fighter(slot 3): Number of fighters: 3 Charges: 3 Radius: 3km Duration: 60s Reload: 60s Defensive Fire(slot 4): Continuous damage: +50% Flak damage: +300% Charges: 3 Duration: 40s Reload: 60s	No change

Tier IX Irene

(image unavailable, I'll see if I have time to make one or if someones interest in drawing it just PM me)

Description:

a 1941 WG what if design. Main battery is comprised of a naval version of the 17cm Kanone 18 in twin mounts. Dual purpose secondaries and long range torpedo mounts. Named after the german protected cruiser. Uses the admiral hipper hull, but slightly increased size and reinforced armor protection.

Tier IX Irene	Stock Hull	Hull(B)+FCS upgrade
Suvivability	HP: 41,300 Plating: 27mm Torpedo protection: 24%	HP: 46,500 Plating: 27mm Torpedo protection: 24%
Main Battery	(4x2) 17cm/50 KM40 in a turret	No change
MB Range & Dispersion	16.4km Sigma: 2.05 Maximum Dispersion Horiz: 138m Maximum Dispersion Verti: 80m	18.1km Sigma: 2.05 Maximum Dispersion Horiz: 162m Maximum Dispersion Verti: 95m
MB Traverse & ROF	10rpm – 6s 180° turn time: 20s	No change
MB HE	170mm Spr.Gr L/4.6 925m/s Fire chance: 10% Penetration: 43mm Damage: 2,000	No change
MB AP	170mm P.Spr.Gr. L/4.2 925m/s Pen angle: 45-60° Penetration at 10km: 195mm Damage: 4,800	No change
Secondary Armament	(6x2) 10.5cm Dop. L. C/37 Shell: HE 900m/s Reload: 20rpm – 3s Sigma: 1.0 Dispersion: 371m Range: 8.0km Penetration: 26mm Damage: 1,200 Fire Chance: 5%	(6x2) 12.8cm/61 KM44 Shell: HE 900m/s Reload: 15rpm – 4s Sigma: 1.0 Dispersion: 371m Range: 8.0km Penetration: 32mm Damage: 1,500 Fire Chance: 5%
Torpedoes	(4x3) 533mm Drilling – G7 Wolfsbarsch Damage: 14,400 Reload: 80s Range: 10km Speed: 67 knots Detectability: 1.6km Reaction time: 7s Chance of flooding: 235%	No change
AA Armament	(6x2) 10.5cm Dop. L. C/37 Range: 0.1km – 5.2km DPS: 126 Flak: 5 + 1 Flak damage: 1,470 (6x1) 5.5cm Gerat 58 Range: 0.1km – 4.0km DPS: 192 (6x4) 3cm flakvierling 103/38 Range: 0.1km – 3.0km DPS: 174 (6x2) 3cm flakzwilling 103/38 Range: 0.1km – 3.0km DPS: 114	(6x2) 12.8cm/61 KM44 Range: 0.1km – 6.0km DPS: 90 Flak: 5 + 1 Flak damage: 1,540 (8x2) 5.5cm Gerat 58 Range: 0.1km – 4.0km DPS: 329 (12x4) 3cm flakvierling 103/38 Range: 0.1km – 3.0km DPS: 348 (4x2) 3cm flakzwilling 103/38 Range: 0.1km – 3.0km DPS: 76
Maneuverability	Speed: 33.5 knots Turn radius: 800m Ruddershift: 13.5s	Speed: 33.5 knots Turn radius: 800m Ruddershift: 9.8s
Concealment	Surface: 14.0km Smoke: 8.0km Air: 6.8km	No change
Consumables	Damage Control(slot 1): Charges: ∞ Duration: 5s Reload: 60s Hydroacoustic search(slot 2): Range: 6km(surface)/4km(torpedoe) Charges: 3 Duration: 120s Reload: 120s Engine Boost(slot 3): Maximum speed: +10% Charges: 3 Duration: 60s Reload: 100s Fighter(slot 4): Number of fighters: 3 Charges: 3 Radius: 3km Duration: 60s Reload: 60s Defensive Fire(slot 4): Continuous damage: +50% Flak damage: +300% Charges: 3 Duration: 40s Reload: 60s Damage Repair(slot 5): HP per second: 0.5% Charges: 3 Duration: 28s Reload: 80s Penetration/citadel: 50% / 33%	No change

Tier X Kaiserin Augusta

Description:

a 1942 WG what if design. The main battery is comprised of a naval version of the 17cm Kanone 18 in triple mounts. Dual purpose secondaries and long range torpedo mounts. Utilizes a Roon hull with slightly improved armor compared to roon but less than hindenburg.

Tier X Kaiserin Augusta	Stock Hull	N/A
Suvivability	HP: 49,300 Plating: 27mm Torpedo protection: 20%	No change
Main Battery	(4x3) 17cm/50 KM40 in a Drh Tr C/41 mount	No change
MB Range & Dispersion	18.2km Sigma: 2.05 Maximum Dispersion Horiz: 163m Maximum Dispersion Verti: 96m	No change
MB Traverse & ROF	10rpm – 6s 180° turn time: 22.5s	No change
MB HE	170mm Spr.Gr L/4.6 Ausf. B 925m/s Fire chance: 11% Penetration: 43mm Damage: 2,100	No change
MB AP	170mm P.Spr.Gr. L/4.2 Ausf. B 925m/s Pen angle: 45-60° Penetration at 10km: 208mm Damage: 5,000	No change
Secondary Armament	(8x2) 12.8cm/61 KM44 Shell: HE 900m/s Reload: 15rpm – 4s Sigma: 1.0 Dispersion: 320m Range: 8.3km Penetration: 32mm Damage: 1,500 Fire Chance: 5%	No change
Torpedoes	(4x4) 533mm Vierling – G7 Steinwal Damage: 14,400 Reload: 110s Range: 10.5km Speed: 69 knots Detectability: 1.7km Reaction time: 7s Chance of flooding: 235%	No change
AA Armament	(8x2) 12.8cm/61 KM44 Range: 0.1km – 6.0km DPS: 120 Flak: 6 + 1 Flak damage: 1,560 (10x2) 5.5cm Gerat 58 Range: 0.1km – 4.0km DPS: 410 (12x2) 3cm MK 303 M-44 Range: 0.1km – 4.0km DPS: 300	No change
Maneuverability	Speed: 34 knots Turn radius: 820m Ruddershift: 10.0s	No change
Concealment	Surface: 14.1km Smoke: 8.5km Air: 7.2km	No change
Consumables	Damage Control(slot 1): Charges: ∞ Duration: 5s Reload: 60s Hydroacoustic search(slot 2): Range: 6km(surface)/4km(torpedo) Charges: 3 Duration: 120s Reload: 120s Engine Boost(slot 3): Maximum speed: +10% Charges: 3 Duration: 60s Reload: 100s Fighter(slot 4): Number of fighters: 3 Charges: 3 Radius: 3km Duration: 60s Reload: 60s Defensive Fire(slot 4): Continuous damage: +50% Flak damage: +300% Charges: 3 Duration: 40s Reload: 60s Damage Repair(slot 5): HP per second: 0.5% Charges: 3 Duration: 28s Reload: 80s Penetration/citadel: 50% / 33%	No change

Tier IX Freya

(image unavailable, I'll see if I have time to make one or if someones interest in drawing it just PM me)

Description:

a 1941 WG what if design. Down tiered version of Kaiserin Augusta, trades its speed boost for radar, something no other german ship has. However it loses some rate of fire/traverse/Ausf.B shells on its artillery, its defensive fire, and its a bit less mobile. Its anti air is similar, focusing more on the 3cm MK 303 as opposed to the 5.5cm gerat 58. Also fewer torpedo tubes but still has access to tier X torpedoes.

Tier IX Freya	Stock Hull	N/A
Suvivability	HP: 47,300 Plating: 27mm Torpedo protection: 20%	No change
Main Battery	(4x3) 17cm/50 KM40 in a Drh Tr C/41 mount	No change
MB Range & Dispersion	18.2km Sigma: 2.05 Maximum Dispersion Horiz: 163m Maximum Dispersion Verti: 96m	No change
MB Traverse & ROF	9.3rpm – 6.5s 180° turn time: 24s	No change
MB HE	170mm Spr.Gr L/4.6 925m/s Fire chance: 10% Penetration: 43mm Damage: 2,000	No change
MB AP	170mm P.Spr.Gr. L/4.2 925m/s Pen angle: 45-60° Penetration at 10km: 195mm Damage: 4,800	No change
Secondary Armament	(8x2) 10.5cm Dop. L. C/37 Shell: HE 900m/s Reload: 20rpm – 3s Sigma: 1.0 Dispersion: 317m Range: 8.0km Penetration: 26mm Damage: 1,200 Fire Chance: 5%	No change
Torpedoes	(4x3) 533mm Drilling – G7 Steinwal Damage: 14,400 Reload: 90s Range: 10.5km Speed: 69 knots Detectability: 1.7km Reaction time: 7s Chance of flooding: 235%	No change
AA Armament	(8x2) 10.5cm Dop. L. C/37 Range: 0.1km – 5.2km DPS: 168 Flak: 6 + 1 Flak damage: 1,470 (16x2) 3cm MK 303 M-44 Range: 0.1km – 4.0km DPS: 400 (10x4) 3cm flakvierling 103/38 Range: 0.1km – 3.0km DPS: 290	No change
Maneuverability	Speed: 32 knots Turn radius: 740m Ruddershift: 10.2s	No change
Concealment	Surface: 13.8km Smoke: 8.2km Air: 6.8km	No change
Consumables	Damage Control(slot 1): Charges: ∞ Duration: 5s Reload: 60s Hydroacoustic search(slot 2): Range: 6km(surface)/4km(torpedo) Charges: 3 Duration: 120s Reload: 120s Radar(slot 3): Range: 9.0km Charges: 2 Duration: 25s Reload: 120s Fighter(slot 3): Number of fighters: 3 Charges: 4 Radius: 3km Duration: 60s Reload: 60s Damage Repair(slot 4): HP per second: 0.5% Charges: 3 Duration: 28s Reload: 80s Penetration/citadel: 50% / 33%	No change

Tier ★ Hertha

(image unavailable, I'll see if I have time to make one or if someones interest in drawing it just PM me)

Description:

WG what if Super ship to cap off the branch. Similar principles to Kaiserin Augusta before, however Hertha's artillery are dual purpose and she has access to Combat instructions that increases the DPS and engagement range of her long range mounts while active. She's built on somewhat scaled down O-class(Siegfried) hull, with less overall armor protection and different plating(E.G. Siegfried's 90mm side plating is only 27mm thick on Hertha). Named after the Hertha, a Victoria Louise class protected cruiser.

Tier ★ Hertha	Stock Hull	N/A
Suvivability	HP: 54,200 Plating: 27mm Torpedo protection: 23%	No change
Main Battery	(5x2) 17cm/50 KM40 in a twin mount	No change
MB Range & Dispersion	18.5km Sigma: 2.05 Maximum Dispersion Horiz: 170m Maximum Dispersion Verti: 96m	No change
MB Traverse & ROF	12rpm – 5s 180° turn time: 15s	No change
MB HE	170mm Spr.Gr L/4.6 Ausf. B 925m/s Fire chance: 11% Penetration: 43mm Damage: 2,100	No change
MB AP	170mm P.Spr.Gr. L/4.2 Ausf. C 925m/s Pen angle: 45-60° Penetration at 10km: 221mm Damage: 5,200	No change
Secondary Armament	(8x2) 12.8cm/61 KM44 Shell: HE 900m/s Reload: 15rpm – 4s Sigma: 1.0 Dispersion: 320m Range: 8.3km Penetration: 32mm Damage: 1,500 Fire Chance: 5%	No change
Torpedoes	(2x5) 533mm Funfling – G7 Steinwal Damage: 14,400 Reload: 80s Range: 10.5km Speed: 69 knots Detectability: 1.7km Reaction time: 7s Chance of flooding: 235%	No change
AA Armament	(5x2) 17cm/50 KM40 in a twin mount Range: 0.1km – 7.2km DPS: 85 Flak: 7 + 1 Flak damage: 2,050 (8x2) 12.8cm/61 KM44 Range: 0.1km – 7.2km DPS: 120 (10x1) 5.5cm Gerat 58 Range: 0.1km – 4.0km DPS: 320 (16x2) 3cm MK 303 M-44 Range: 0.1km – 4.0km DPS: 400	No change
Maneuverability	Speed: 35 knots Turn radius: 920m Ruddershift: 10.5s	No change
Concealment	Surface: 13.9km Smoke: 8.0km Air: 7.5km	No change
Consumables	Damage Control(slot 1): Charges: ∞ Duration: 5s Reload: 60s Hydroacoustic search(slot 2): Range: 6km(surface)/4km(torpedo) Charges: 3 Duration: 120s Reload: 120s Engine Boost(slot 3): Maximum speed: +10% Charges: 3 Duration: 60s Reload: 100s Fighter(slot 4): Number of fighters: 3 Charges: 4 Radius: 3km Duration: 60s Reload: 60s Defensive Fire(slot 4): Continuous damage: +50% Flak damage: +300% Charges: 3 Duration: 40s Reload: 60s Damage Repair(slot 5): HP per second: 0.5% Charges: 3 Duration: 28s Reload: 80s Penetration/citadel: 50% / 33%	No change
Combat Instructions	Long Range Defensive Fire Long range AA range: +7% Long range DPS: +200% Action time: 30s Requirements: Time spent Spotted by aircraft: 20s Not spotted by aircraft after 30s: -2.5% per second	No change

Anyway, thats all I have for now. I hope you've enjoyed the proposed line. If you have any feedback balance wise, feel free to post it and perhaps in an updated post(unless the 3 hour editing limit changes, I hope so cause I would like to update the post with additional images for the ships missing). Also any questions, please ask.

[SureBridge]

1 hour ago, MBT808 said:

Also any questions, please ask.

Should we create a subforum for ship proposals? This isn't "historical" and if we leave these in "general" they're going to get buried under piles of "I like (ship name here)" posts.

Because we're a new forum, we can ask how folks want to have things organized. Giving Mouse her own review section was a no-brainer, but there are a number of other areas (like this) where there isn't a lot of feedback (and thus responses to "push" the thread to the top, but there is a LOT of work (and IMO interesting detail) that is worth having around as reference. Maybe a "Reference" section? 

[MBT808]

26 minutes ago, SureBridge said:

 "historical"

Well, Seydlitz and the M-class cruisers are historical but the rest is basically me throwing together a what if based on the shipbuilding thinking of the time. Basically, like the german destroyers were up-gunned to outmatch their british equivalents of the time(largely unsuccessfully) that I'd have up-gunned german light cruisers to overpower the RN equivalents like the town class.

So its half historical in a sense, half fantasy(the branch would be historical to tier VIII at least). Though I'm sure there might be historical archived material that could suit IX and X, but I don't have access to that.

In terms of what to do with this, someone else posted a proposed branch as well. I spoke with HogHammer already, perhaps a community creations(this has a ship line plus artwork(Kaiserin Augusta I drew for the article)) or perhaps a proposal section(which would be for purely wows related content like ship lines or premium ships).

Edited August 19, 2023 by MBT808

[RSRampage01]

The tier 7 should be the motorkreuzer 1938 design, as it would do well as an improvement over the Nuremberg. Alterations may include the adding of an Atlantic bow and more torps.

 

Personally I would like to see the t9 be the "Berlin" cruiser design created by shichau shipyards for germany 

I could see this design modified by adding an Atlantic bow, another rack of torps for 4x4 layout, and another 105mm dual gun on each side.

The tier 10 should use the elbing dual purpose 150mm mounts as they would make the most sense progression wise. With most likely a worcester style layout. It could be possible to see a p-class hull being turned into a ship with this arrangement.  Maybe instead of dual turrets, wargaming could fabricate 6 triple ones.

 

though I wouldn't be suprised if weegee cooks up a hindenburg with 4x4 150mm turrets

[MBT808]

26 minutes ago, RSRampage01 said:

Personally I would like to see the t9 be the "Berlin" cruiser design created by shichau shipyards for germany

Berlin wouldn't have been selected as a name of a ship, because of the ideology of the time. It was thought that if a ship named Berlin had been sunk, it would've been a crippling blow to german morale. I'd pick an alternative name. I like the ship, but it might make for a better premium.

30 minutes ago, RSRampage01 said:

The tier 7 should be the motorkreuzer 1938 design, as it would do well as an improvement over the Nuremberg. Alterations may include the adding of an Atlantic bow and more torps.

I was unaware of this design. it would make more sense than the M-class. Unfortunately, I can't edit the opening post anymore to include it. If editing capabilities open up in the future, I'll look into changing it around.

32 minutes ago, RSRampage01 said:

The tier 10 should use the elbing dual purpose 150mm mounts as they would make the most sense progression wise. With most likely a worcester style layout. It could be possible to see a p-class hull being turned into a ship with this arrangement.  Maybe instead of dual turrets, wargaming could fabricate 6 triple ones.

I have to disagree here, your tier X is crazier than what I proposed. What Your asking for, balance wise with the details you provided, would be hilariously OP(Broken) by comparison to Kaiserin Augusta.

[RSRampage01]

14 hours ago, MBT808 said:

Berlin wouldn't have been selected as a name of a ship, because of the ideology of the time. It was thought that if a ship named Berlin had been sunk, it would've been a crippling blow to german morale. I'd pick an alternative name. I like the ship, but it might make for a better premium.

I agree that the name should be different for these reasons, however I will say that this design with the modifications I suggested should be a reasonable progression.

14 hours ago, MBT808 said:

I have to disagree here, your tier X is crazier than what I proposed. What Your asking for, balance wise with the details you provided, would be hilariously OP(Broken) by comparison to Kaiserin Augusta.

Perhaps it would be best to just have 5-6 dual turrets or 4 triple turrets then. It would probably have a similar 6-7 second reload to elbing so the dpm won't outpace the likes of worcester or brisbane.

 

The irony with a line like this is that it would instantly power creep yodo regardless lol.

[RSRampage01]

Additionally, the t9 could instead use 5 Felix shulz turrets instead of 5 mainz turrets

[MBT808]

1 hour ago, RSRampage01 said:

I agree that the name should be different for these reasons, however I will say that this design with the modifications I suggested should be a reasonable progression.

Perhaps it would be best to just have 5-6 dual turrets or 4 triple turrets then. It would probably have a similar 6-7 second reload to elbing so the dpm won't outpace the likes of worcester or brisbane.

 

The irony with a line like this is that it would instantly power creep yodo regardless lol.

Well, yodo and all the IJN light cruisers(except one) were power crept from the word go. The only one that isn’t power crept is Mogami, she is better than the entire line(for reference, if Mogami had access to MBM2 in slot 6 would out dps Yodo, it’s baseline almost matches). All other light cruisers are also superior. Not to mention, if you ask most players, the IJN light cruisers could be nominated for worst line released in the games history.

My thoughts behind the 17cm armament choice, was essentially to be a progression on the Mainz play style. The T9 suggestion you made would work as well instead of Irene. I also considered the ship building ideas of the time and what the RN was building, namely the town and arethusa classes. In the same way that Deutschland heavy cruisers and the type 1936A destroyers. Basically to mount heavier guns to outgun their RN counterparts in the same class. Hence the 17cm guns.

Also I think the 17cm guns would be fun, which is an important factor I believe in any line.

59 minutes ago, RSRampage01 said:

Additionally, the t9 could instead use 5 Felix shulz turrets instead of 5 mainz turrets

Mainz shouldn’t even have the 15cm/60 SK C/25 guns or turrets, it should have the same turrets and guns as seydlitz here. Felix Shultz and elbing use the same turrets, the only difference is the ausf.C shells that Elbing gets.

To be honest, a Wooster clone just doesn’t feel like the right direction for German light cruisers. The only reason Hertha is like Wooster is that I was just doing something non-serious, I honestly have no idea what WG would actually do for a super ship in this line.

[RSRampage01]

2 hours ago, MBT808 said:

My thoughts behind the 17cm armament choice, was essentially to be a progression on the Mainz play style. The T9 suggestion you made would work as well instead of Irene. I also considered the ship building ideas of the time and what the RN was building, namely the town and arethusa classes. In the same way that Deutschland heavy cruisers and the type 1936A destroyers. Basically to mount heavier guns to outgun their RN counterparts in the same class. Hence the 17cm guns.

Also I think the 17cm guns would be fun, which is an important factor I believe in any line.

While I agree that these would be an interesting gun to have in the game, I disagree with the the caliber methodology you are describing as the Germans were known for choosing lighter, faster reloading guns/shells over heavier armaments. The spahkreuzer 1940 class (elbing) was the last light cruiser class layed down in Germany. It should be no mistake that the elbing guns are the best performing 150mm/60 guns of their nation. Not to mention the fact that elbing ship ballistics are amazing. These guns are already in the game and well detailed in terms of nomenclature.

I feel like a 170mm armed ship would do best as a premium not only for these reasons, but also the fact that such a gun would have different enough characteristics and design to separate it from the line. The 170mm guns would be harder to design an effective dual purpose turret.

We could have it so that the t9 shichau design could have seydlitz guns as a base module but can be upgraded to Felix shulz guns for better shell ballistics and AA.

The t10 would most likely be similar to roon or hindenburg but with elbing guns.

As no comparative ship hulls were actually designed after hipper and the Berlin paper ship, it's, at this point completely up to weegee.

It remains possible that instead of a worcester style design, we get a seattle/neptune style design, but i wouldn't be surprised if we get a layout similar to San Martin, minotaur, or, (God forbid) atlanta.