Update 12.10 - Share Your Captain Builds

[Admiral_Karasu]

Hi, mates!

Please feel free to share your captain builds and possible variations and your thoughts ... unless it's a secret, of course.

I admit I have nothing to hide, nor much to share myself. I almost always pick the same skills with the first 10 points, and only add a little variation depending on what I think are the strong points of the ship and/or the captain (if special skills etc. are available).

For this iteration of the captain skills, I'm thinking of opting for the IFHE skill for the best cruiser line in the game (obviously that means the Japanese cruisers).

[Frostbow]

I had trouble logging on yesterday. But prior to that, I was able to play two Co-op games with the Napoli.

The secondary skill for cruisers I find to be a very good fit for the fast paced environment of Co-op. My Napoli is already full lighthouse, so the secondary skill complements well the ship's main battery.

[Aragathor]

My secondary Graf build:

 

https://share.wowssb.com/nQaY

 

I did it for the LULZ.

 

Also swapped out of DE to PM on the German BCs.

[Admiral_Karasu]

For the relevant missions, I often employ my secondary skill specced Massachusetts. Usually in coop.

[Admiral_Karasu]

Bump? (Don't tell the moderators I just did that, please.)

I'm hoping people would share their tips here, so we could pool our collective wisdom and knowledge on what builds to go for and what maybe not. They've sort of been doing that in the 'Other Place' (no, not hell... or maybe... yes) but I'm confident we can do it better here on the forum.

[pepe_trueno]

it is stupid if it works (when the stars align)? 😆

 

[MBT808]

Tested the secondary build for several cruisers, but it all amounted to:

Nothing, the skill does almost nothing if your names not Admiral Schroeder or Napoli. It needs more to be viable as an option for cruisers across the board.

I think if WG removed the torp damage boost(largely irrelevant anyway) and gave us a 25% improvement to dispersion, it would make the skill a choice to consider. Right now the base dispersion is too high for basically all cruisers to make the skill useful. Giving a dispersion boost would make it viable potentially.

A step in the right direction, but we need a bit more though.

Edited November 11, 2023 by MBT808

[pepe_trueno]

27 minutes ago, MBT808 said:

Tested the secondary build for several cruisers, but it all amounted to:

Nothing, the skill does almost nothing if your names not Admiral Schroeder or Napoli. It needs more to be viable as an option for cruisers across the board.

I think if WG removed the torp damage boost(largely irrelevant anyway) and gave us a 25% improvement to dispersion, it would make the skill a choice to consider. Right now the base dispersion is too high for basically all cruisers to make the skill useful. Giving a dispersion boost would make it viable potentially.

A step in the right direction, but we need a bit more though.

the problem is they cornered themself with napoli so Any buff to cruisers secondary guns will result in napoli going berserk. either WG has to buff all cruisers secondary accuracy or nerf napoli before adding more secondary upgrades/skills. 

guess their best bet is to replace Secondary Battery Modification module from standard cruisers with an enhanced version, say: 

• +1km to secondary battery range.
• -60% secondary battery dispersion.

 

[MBT808]

2 hours ago, pepe_trueno said:

the problem is they cornered themself with napoli so Any buff to cruisers secondary guns will result in napoli going berserk. either WG has to buff all cruisers secondary accuracy or nerf napoli before adding more secondary upgrades/skills. 

guess their best bet is to replace Secondary Battery Modification module from standard cruisers with an enhanced version, say: 

• +1km to secondary battery range.
• -60% secondary battery dispersion.

 

Even with a full build Napoli doesn’t though and she has the highest accuracy in the game in terms of secondaries already. The mod you suggested would actually be worse than what I proposed based based on a 25% being enough for Napoli to be broken as you yourself suggests.

So either she’d not be able to mount it, then in which case she’d run a ASM1 hybrid build and essentially play like a long range back line cruiser. This buff made her secondaries some what viable with SBM1. Without, I don’t think it’s worth having the skill then. However there is a caveat to running a full secondary build with Napoli, her ASM1 build is objectively superior as the -7% dispersion on her main battery is essential. Otherwise, you’re just taking damage away from your main battery and moving it to secondaries or in some cases dealing less damage overall if you don’t get enough/any opportunities to utilize your secondaries.

I don’t think a drastic change to SBM1 is the answer here ultimately. I think either there are two options: nerf Napoli slightly and boost the skill by 30%(I would make it so the boost would give her slightly better accuracy than a full build we presently have) or boost the secondary battery for German cruisers(cause the other nations really don’t have the secondaries run it viably or the french super cruisers which are already enhanced) globally to match Schroeder(with Schroeder being buffed to have a bit better dispersion than she does now). This would ultimately end up with a similar standard set by the German BBs compared to other BBs.

I would however, single out Roon to have the same dispersion as Napoli on her 15cm only to make them viable. Munchen would also get some special attention in the form of tier VIII range and Napolis dispersion to make the 105s she carry’s useful.

Edited November 11, 2023 by MBT808

[pepe_trueno]

7 hours ago, MBT808 said:

Even with a full build Napoli doesn’t though and she has the highest accuracy in the game in terms of secondaries already. The mod you suggested would actually be worse than what I proposed based based on a 25% being enough for Napoli to be broken as you yourself suggests.

So either she’d not be able to mount it, then in which case she’d run a ASM1 hybrid build and essentially play like a long range back line cruiser. This buff made her secondaries some what viable with SBM1. Without, I don’t think it’s worth having the skill then. However there is a caveat to running a full secondary build with Napoli, her ASM1 build is objectively superior as the -7% dispersion on her main battery is essential. Otherwise, you’re just taking damage away from your main battery and moving it to secondaries or in some cases dealing less damage overall if you don’t get enough/any opportunities to utilize your secondaries.

I don’t think a drastic change to SBM1 is the answer here ultimately. I think either there are two options: nerf Napoli slightly and boost the skill by 30%(I would make it so the boost would give her slightly better accuracy than a full build we presently have) or boost the secondary battery for German cruisers(cause the other nations really don’t have the secondaries run it viably or the french super cruisers which are already enhanced) globally to match Schroeder(with Schroeder being buffed to have a bit better dispersion than she does now). This would ultimately end up with a similar standard set by the German BBs compared to other BBs.

I would however, single out Roon to have the same dispersion as Napoli on her 15cm only to make them viable. Munchen would also get some special attention in the form of tier VIII range and Napolis dispersion to make the 105s she carry’s useful.

to be fair the page i used to check world of warships stats is not working so i had to work with what i had in my head

napoli base dispersion at 7km is of 177mts, with the SBM module of 20% it should be of 142mts

standar cruiser base dispersion at 7km is of 429m with the enhaced SBM module of 60% it should be of 172mts

 

i know most cruisers have no business with secondary builds be either because they dont have the secondary guns to be worth it or the armor to survive close range combat but would be nice to have the option and the best approach i can think right now is to add multiple variants of the SBM1 module with a buff powerful enough to make them viable.

 

for standar dispersion cruisers: -60% dispersion, +20% range

for accurate dispersion cruisers: -40% dispersion, +20% range

for cruisers with above accurate dispersion: -20% dispersion, +20% range

pensacola: -20% dispersion, +40% range becouse memes 😆

 

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by pepe_trueno

[Project45_Opytny]

Napoli has defective vertical dispersion in the same fashion like Soviet heavy cruisers, that even with range upgrade will also render her effectively useless at longer ranges (and there are Piemonte and Castilla that would both be better for this proposed role) and Admiral Schroeder and Michelangelo all have terrible ballistics (for Schroeder, also terrible penetration) for their main guns. I consider those are prices for being so effective in brawls. Whether such a forcefully determined role (I recall the naive speculation on Soviet battleships that "that should be applied to Germans" and as such) in battle is good or not depends on one's personal views.

The German 150-mm secondaries are generally speaking much less effective than what they may look like due to low barrel count and slow rate of fire.

Napoli is arguably more survivable than German cruisers, and the suggestion would probably make German cruisers too universal.

[Admiral_Karasu]

On 11/11/2023 at 2:07 PM, Project45_Opytny said:

The German 150-mm secondaries are generally speaking much less effective than what they may look like due to low barrel count and slow rate of fire.

 

I remember there being an issue with secondaries dispersion. Was that with the German secondaries?

[Project45_Opytny]

On 11/11/2023 at 12:54 PM, MBT808 said:

So either she’d not be able to mount it, then in which case she’d run a ASM1 hybrid build and essentially play like a long range back line cruiser.

Why that is a bad, likely nonviable idea:

Third-party database & charting tool of iwarship.net (in Chinese language). Range in Kilometres, the other axis is dispersion area (calculated from both vertical dispersion and horizontal dispersion) in square kilometres.

Black line-Napoli expected AP dispersion with ASM1, GFCS2 and Sansonetti perk; magenta line-Piemonte (with standard cruiser dispersion) expected AP (that is identical with ones from Napoli in terms of ballistics) dispersion with ASM1, GFCS2 and Sansonetti perk; green line-Napoli expected AP dispersion with ASM1, GFCS2, Sansonetti perk and Outnumbered that can further improve dispersion. This just illustrates how WG has forcefully assigned Napoli to the role of a secondaries brawler by rendering her main guns effectively useless beyond 12~14-km.

16 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

I remember there being an issue with secondaries dispersion. Was that with the German secondaries?

German battleships above Bayern and battlecruisers above Derfflinger have access to improved secondaries dispersion, and datamined information says that Prinz Eitel Friedrich was left behind when the "Global change" compensating how manual secondaries work was enforced. German battleships have improved dispersion, while German battlecruisers have further improved, "Massachusetts" secondaries dispersion.

I consider the culprit being that, basing largely on historical projects and the design ideas they represented, the barrel count is limited; they are shackled by German HE characteristics (low Alpha damage) and historical RoF, and not being almost universally useful when comparing with Atlantico.

[MBT808]

39 minutes ago, Project45_Opytny said:

Prinz Eitel Friedrich was left behind when the "Global change"

This is not the case, PEF indeed uses the same secondary dispersion as Bayern. I doubled checked on this, unless this is a ASIA server specific issue.

Edited November 13, 2023 by MBT808

[Project45_Opytny]

7 minutes ago, MBT808 said:

This is not the case, PEF indeed uses the same secondary dispersion as Bayern. I doubled checked on this, unless this is a ASIA server specific issue.

Above, not including Bayern, Bayern does not have improved secondaries dispersion.

[Nevermore135]

Per the wiki, PEF should have improved secondary dispersion.

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Secondary_Armament#German_Battleships

Edited November 14, 2023 by Nevermore135

[Itwastuesday]

The most dpm 

 

works just fine 

 

[iDuckman]

Mine are almost all pretty standard.  One change I did make is, instead of ERS skill on BBs, I moved to the new PM for the added protection to 2dy and AA batteries.  Even with ships that mount AAM1 upgrade, PM is useful since it partially offsets the effect of not mounting MAM1.

  

On 11/10/2023 at 4:59 AM, Admiral_Karasu said:

(obviously that means the Japanese cruisers).

<ahem>  **cough**cough**

  

On 11/10/2023 at 8:01 PM, MBT808 said:

Nothing, the skill does almost nothing if your names not Admiral Schroeder or Napoli. It needs more to be viable as an option for cruisers across the board.

Yeah, I found that too.  I was hoping it would apply to more.  USN cruisers have those short ranged 5"/38s and no torpedoes.  Bumping the range to 6km hardly seems worth three points.  Some foreign cruisers had the combination but not the high point commanders. 

Rather, PM, FFT, ConS got most of the attention.

 

Edited November 15, 2023 by iDuckman

[MBT808]

2 hours ago, iDuckman said:

Yeah, I found that too.  I was hoping it would apply to more.  USN cruisers have those short ranged 5"/38s and no torpedoes.  Bumping the range to 6km hardly seems worth three points.  Some foreign cruisers had the combination but not the high point commanders. 

Rather, PM, FFT, ConS got most of the attention.

I actually found the 4 point AA skill to be viable, but just for the 50% consumable cool down. On Azuma for example, dropping your damage repair down to 20s while spotted by aircraft actually could be quite useful. Though that’s more for randoms captain builds, in ranked top grade gunner is the best choice for cruisers(aside from CE of course, always first 4 point skill) since CVs and plane spotting doesn’t come up often.

Personally, if they had accompanied this with a boost to German cruiser secondary accuracy across the board, secondary skill would’ve definitely been worth picking up.

[Asym]

On 11/10/2023 at 4:59 AM, Admiral_Karasu said:

Hi, mates!

Please feel free to share your captain builds and possible variations and your thoughts ... unless it's a secret, of course.

I admit I have nothing to hide, nor much to share myself. I almost always pick the same skills with the first 10 points, and only add a little variation depending on what I think are the strong points of the ship and/or the captain (if special skills etc. are available).

For this iteration of the captain skills, I'm thinking of opting for the IFHE skill for the best cruiser line in the game (obviously that means the Japanese cruisers).

this is a wonderful thread and I'd love to see screen shots of what this thread agrees on !!  A log book of screen shots by Nation for new players.  Yes, there are other site choices but, if this site wants to take what you'all seem to know, we need to do something more than everyone else.....

I am not an expert because I simply do what's easiest.....  BUT, I would take a screen shot of a tricked out IJN BB Matsu five minutes ago.....as an example.......now, 6 minutes ago....

[HogHammer]

On 11/10/2023 at 4:59 AM, Admiral_Karasu said:

I almost always pick the same skills with the first 10 points

^^This^^

In the vast majority of captain builds the first 10 points are pretty standard, depending on the class of the ship, of course.  DDs need specific basic captain skills (first 10 points), whereas BBs will have their own set of base skills.

It's 11 to 21 that most will debate - to a point.  Here, your individual play style and the unique features of a given ship factor in the most.  There are several captain build guides available that are great for "suggested" builds.  Most are pretty much spot on as a basis for a starting point.  From there, a few adjustments by the individual player can find that "sweet spot" you desire based on the battle type and your play style.

[RomaThePastaBote]

https://share.wowssb.com/CyB

 

Secondary Champagne for operations, since I permanently retired from random. Not as effective as German ladies, but the sheer amount of shell she throws is just hilarious to look.

[Admiral_Karasu]

@RomaThePastaBote Welcome aboard!

[TimurGlazkov]

The secondary St.Vincent build that got me a few downvotes on Reddit just by mentioning it: https://share.wowssb.com/Q1TJ

Ship is still competitive in Random, it's interesting and I have fun, what's the hold up?

Edited November 28, 2023 by TimurGlazkov

[BOBTHEBALL]

10 hours ago, TimurGlazkov said:

The secondary St.Vincent build that got me a few downvotes on Reddit just by mentioning it: https://share.wowssb.com/Q1TJ

Ship is still competitive in Random, it's interesting and I have fun, what's the hold up?

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