how to daring

[Kawaii_shirasu_azusa]

friends told me that these dd are "coach ship” that could let me know how to fight with dd. but the tier VI Show an extremely poor performance:Trajectory of the stone throwing machine, low health, and lower damage......... 

(I just played shima/harugumo and some premium ship like marceau,lvshun before.）

[RX160S_Byarlant_Custom]

Hello hello, Custom here, I like destroyers. Firstly, let me disagree that British DDs are good starter DDs, they are too forgiving and encourage plays that are other DDs cannot pull off (and at worst, get them killed). More on this later.

British DDs are primarily cap-contesting destroyers focusing on close-range gun fights. They have fairly good concealment (except Daring), DPM and British warp-drive acceleration. However, their DPM is average (except Daring), have poor ballistics, relatively small HP pools and a low top speed as they lack an Engine Boost. Therefore, their playstyle will primarily involve repeatedly engaging and disengaging (and preferably, outtrading) against other destroyers at close range. Daring is slightly different - she boasts competitive DPM, though her concealment is average. I will talk about the line as a whole - the playstyle does not change regardless.

Guns are their bread and butter, but British DDs do not have "good" DPM until Daring. It's more comparable to Japanese torpedoboat levels of DPM in most tiers. Regardless, they are decent weapons at short-range with a ok rate of fire. Their efficiency is held back by a couple of weaknesses, most prominently poor ballistics. Much like the American 127mm guns that are staple on the USN DDs, the ballistics begin to fall off at roughly 8km, and consistently have some of the worst shell flight times in their tier. The traverse is also not the fastest until Lightning, but this is not a huge issue (18.0s is fine). So, British DDs prefer to fight other DDs at close range (either by going to them or letting them come to you), then disengage, rinse and repeat. Daring can especially capitalise on this given her excellent reload and fast traverse. An additional plus point is that from Lightning and above, all their turrets rotate 360 degrees, allowing you to keep your guns on a target incredibly well. Jervis' B and X turrets do the same, giving her an advantage when kiting from or pushing into enemies.  They can farm from range if they must, but keep in mind that you will probably only hit BBs.

However, as you have noticed, their HP pools are small. To compensate (with most of them also having low-ish DPM) they have fairly good concealment for their tier, allowing one to sneak in close and fire the first few shots before disengaging with the smoke. Lightning for instance has 5.5km concealment, which is really good for its tier (only 0.1km above the Japanese torpedoboats). Daring loses this advantage with her mediocre 6.0km concealment, but has one of the best DPM values of a TX DD. Note that Daring and Jutland both get heals, making it more favourable to outtrade other DDs. Also, they are quite nimble on their feet in most instances, allowing you to dodge pretty well. 

The torpedoes are mediocre, but are perfectly serviceable weapons, so don't you forget them. Individually, they have rather average stats - good damage, fairly fast and with an acceptable range. They are limited by their long reload time, but do note that you can launch each torpedo individually. This allows one to surgically aim on, say, a bow-tanking ship or one poking out from an island. Be careful of radar in the high tiers, though, as even Daring's torpedo range of 10km means she may need to go within that range for a while. Do look out for times to use the single-launch function, like when ships push you bow-on.

Speaking of ships pushing into you, a lack of Engine Boost means you have a relatively low top speed for your tier. You may want to keep this in mind when positioning. Do not worry about your ability to speed juke, though. The British acceleration that the line gets allows you to pick up speed much faster than most other DDs, and you can slot rudder by default in slot 4, which puts your rudder only slightly worse than American destroyers. However, deceleration is something they suck at, especially going from reverse to forward. When dodging enemy fire from afar, you may want to accelerate out of shots, though doing it the normal way is also completely fine.

Normally, most DDs' smokes have 3 charges and a long action/reset timer. British DD smokes are of the short-burst kind, which means they have a brief duration time in comparison, but you get more charges with shorter cooldown time. This makes the smokes excellent for engaging DDs - as the short cooldown means you can afford to get into a knife-fight again and still be able to disengage quickly. The trade-off is that farming is less conducive, as the smoke clears after a relatively short time. This being said, the short cooldown means you need to wait no more than half a minute to smoke up again, and is also an excellent tool to hide from a CV (due to having more numerous and flexible charges). On top of this your personal Hydro has a very long duration, so eating torps will be rare. The cost is that it detects ships only at 3km, so it is not an offensive consumable by any means. It is possible, but very situational and usually not recommended. The difference between a DD's smoke detection penalty and 3km range is very small in most cases, you may eke out a 300m advantage, which is not a lot and place yourself in a worse position in the process. Jutland and Daring also get a heal - while only having 3 charges max, it massively helps their ability to engage enemy DDs repeatedly and hold on to caps.

For this reason, they are incredibly forgiving despite their lowish HP, and this is the reason I do not recommend them as a starter line. They are more likely to spoil new players with 3 layers of safety nets - the smoke on demand, personal hydro and a heal. Most other DDs do not get these, and cannot get into fights as often or make plays that you can pull off with a short smoke cooldown, for example. While I do agree that Acasta and Icarus are miserable, it still does not translate well into playing other DDs. The only difficult part of playing the line is rotating flanks or attempting to retreat, owing to your low top speed. You may find yourself in a bad position if you don't move soon enough - and the smoke will not be enough to save you.

Regardless, these are exemplary and forgiving cap-contesting destroyers - the consumables give them the flexibility to fight, or avoid other DDs even if they lack the HP pool and DPM on paper. 

(Now, if you're looking for a starter line, I recommend Gearing.)

[AkiraKurai]

9 hours ago, Kawaii_shirasu_azusa said:

friends told me that these dd are "coach ship” that could let me know how to fight with dd. but the tier VI Show an extremely poor performance:Trajectory of the stone throwing machine, low health, and lower damage......... 

(I just played shima/harugumo and some premium ship like marceau,lvshun before.）

Icarus is a odd one out in the line with its poor gun performance, it makes up for this with arguably one of the best torp performance stats for its tier, even with it's low torp range.

I would not agree with your friend on calling the line "coach ship"s Daring is up there in terms of being a competitive ship due to having a lot of the essential utils that a lot of DDs do not have, 2 lines only have short smokes, 3 only have access to heal (4 if you want to count the VMF split), and to this day it is the only TT line to have hydro (may change with the intro of commonwealth DDs), all for the trade of speed boost, which they make up by having turbo accel (excluding top speed). If you where to vet a more traditional line like gearing against daring the daring in a 1v1, the daring will win. It has better DPS and better util, sure Gearing has better conceal but the buffer is only 0.2 km, let's assume that both where running aft in into the cap (even though it's more beneficial for daring to just B line it into cap since that 0.2 km buffer means little even if gearing has speed bost active to go forward again since it takes about 6 seconds to reach 10 kts if it was already at full reverse) daring can also just smoke up, pop hydro and turn brain off. Meanwhile gearing has to wait the smoke out or risk getting caught in a gun fight and even then it cant throw torps at the daring due to hydro lasting 4 minutes if they also bought the mod for it.

You're better off with the Gearing line of you want coach ships

Edited November 8, 2023 by AkiraKurai

[GMMF]

1 hour ago, AkiraKurai said:

it is the only TT line to have hydro

Poor Z52 getting forgotten...

[AkiraKurai]

1 minute ago, GMMF said:

Poor Z52 getting forgotten...

I completely forgot about Z52 lmfao, mainly due to the low HE DPM (8th from the bottom) it has so it slipped my mind

52 is a DD which trades a lot of DPM for the ability to utilize a offensive hydro, I would honestly suggest this line if you want to play a more utility focused ship with its capability of spotting torps and laying smoke for teammates although it's smoke isn't as effective as Gearing smoke.

The upside of 52 is that it has quarter pen, allowing it's HE to pen 32mm , this somewhat makes up for its anemic HE DPM with the ability to pelt to bow of BBs if given the opportunity somehow as well as having one of the highest AP DPM numbers (7th place).

[BOBTHEBALL]

On 11/8/2023 at 5:36 AM, Kawaii_shirasu_azusa said:

friends told me that these dd are "coach ship” that could let me know how to fight with dd. but the tier VI Show an extremely poor performance:Trajectory of the stone throwing machine, low health, and lower damage......... 

(I just played shima/harugumo and some premium ship like marceau,lvshun before.）

While Custom covered everything I wanted to mention the tier 5-6 in the British DD line are kinda dogwater so it's not completely your fault.

[thornzero]

Bob you probably remember helping me with USS Hill a couple months ago on the WoWs Discord under your help area. 

I have started playing some higher tiers mostly when they become available on Brawls. I find it to be a more forgiving training environment. Quick and fast, especially for DDs. I check my wins throughout the session and am doing about 5o% of wins. I am not ready to do randoms at these tiers but maybe sooner than later.

I had Gearing for a little while and didn't play it much but recently [Last weeks Brawls was Tier X]. But I did pick up Daring. The recommended build focuses on guns but I am thinking of putting the emphasis on torpedoes. The gains in saving time particularly reloading are significant compared to the tenths of a second on reloading guns.

What is your opinion? 

[BOBTHEBALL]

20 hours ago, thornzero said:

I have started playing some higher tiers mostly when they become available on Brawls. I find it to be a more forgiving training environment. Quick and fast, especially for DDs. I check my wins throughout the session and am doing about 5o% of wins. I am not ready to do randoms at these tiers but maybe sooner than later.

I love it when people do this, not wanting to hurt their teams experience. That is why we have co-op, training rooms, brawls and OPs. These are all great places for you to learn how to play a specific class, good on you!

20 hours ago, thornzero said:

Bob you probably remember helping me with USS Hill a couple months ago on the WoWs Discord under your help area. 

I think I do remember that yeah, how was the experience with her?

20 hours ago, thornzero said:

I had Gearing for a little while and didn't play it much but recently [Last weeks Brawls was Tier X]. But I did pick up Daring. The recommended build focuses on guns but I am thinking of putting the emphasis on torpedoes. The gains in saving time particularly reloading are significant compared to the tenths of a second on reloading guns.

What is your opinion? 

Daring torpedoes aren't that great, they're ok but the main selling point of her is the guns. You're supposed to fight hard for the caps, smash and bend over other DDs with your amazing firepower. Going for a torpedo build over guns is not a good choice imo. Instead of making your average torpedoes good, make your amazing guns even better.

[thornzero]

53 minutes ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

I love it when people do this, not wanting to hurt their teams experience. That is why we have co-op, training rooms, brawls and OPs. These are all great places for you to learn how to play a specific class, good on you!

Its important to me to improve and some days are better than others.

54 minutes ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

I think I do remember that yeah, how was the experience with her?

588 battles - 51% - still room for improvement but you have mentioned the higher tiers have more action and damage and I am working my way up.

57 minutes ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

Daring torpedoes aren't that great, they're ok but the main selling point of her is the guns. You're supposed to fight hard for the caps, smash and bend over other DDs with your amazing firepower. Going for a torpedo build over guns is not a good choice imo. Instead of making your average torpedoes good, make your amazing guns even better.

Ok I will revisit this thinking, thank you a million for your time.

[BOBTHEBALL]

36 minutes ago, thornzero said:

Its important to me to improve and some days are better than others.

We all have bad days remember

36 minutes ago, thornzero said:

588 battles - 51% - still room for improvement but you have mentioned the higher tiers have more action and damage and I am working my way up.

That's not bad at all, especially if you just started trying to improve.

 

1 hour ago, thornzero said:

Ok I will revisit this thinking, thank you a million for your time.

No problem at all!

[thornzero]

So how to Daring.

The last couple days in T-1o brawls have been a nightmare again. All the maps are arms race, first of all. I also noticed not one single other Daring in any of the matches.

The matchmaker has not be ideal either [rubbish everyone is around high 3o's-4o% with a few exceptions and little to no randoms]. I'm running Daring mostly spec'd for guns but I am not winning any knife fights. [16 pointer] So I stopped rushing and mostly spotted and flung around some torps while landing some of them. 

Usually with brawls I finish the coal mission by day two the latest or sometimes day 3 if I am a little burnt. At the rate I'm going, its going to be happening until the week-end.

I am debating to take Gearing out tomorrow and maybe changing upgrades to boost its guns a little at the expense of 1o seconds on the torps. I just thought, man, Daring should be dominate at these brawls [guns/heals/etc]. Gearing has a 16 pointer also. I have a shimy which I hardly play and am not good at and a Montana but I prefer DDs. 

 

[thornzero]

Took Gearing out to-day. Closer to my usual 5o% wins. Getting traction on longer torp range and good guns. Daring just isn't suited to the task; which is unfortunate, it is a good ship.

Edited to add: finished the coal mission with Gearing no problem. Had an all time high of 186k damage in the process.

Edited March 20 by thornzero