If subs are so disliked?

[ole_seabee]

Then why are so many in the q and wanted to be played? CV suck much more and there are more bbs in each game then evrer met in WW2!

 

 

[Ensign Cthulhu]

Because the whining about them is disproportionately loud?

It's like all these people who scream "IT'S ONLY IF WE ALL SHUT OUR WALLETS THAT WG WILL LISTEN TO US AND FIX THE GAME." Maybe the reason more people don't shut their wallets is because they consider the game quite acceptable as is, subs and all. 

[Admiral_Karasu]

Because many CV players have found the subs to be a more effective tool for them.

[Wulf_Ace]

I am more frustrated with so many german secondary BBs out there, too much of them.

[Musket22]

I'm tired of the sub-mafia trumpeting "The subs were there historically"

Yet demand all the gimmicks (damage absorbtion, homing torps anyone?) that make them so arcady.

You may find them fun to play but in a game that is advertized as 'Fun & Engaging', the subs just make it aggrevating.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Musket22

[Gillhunter]

7 minutes ago, Musket22 said:

I'm tired of the sub-mafia trumpeting "The subs were there historically"

Yet demand all the gimmicks (damage absorbtion, homing torps anyone?) that make them so arcady.

You may find them fun to play but in a game that is advertized as 'Fun & Engaging', the subs just make it aggrevating.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^

[Hugh_Ruka]

39 minutes ago, ole_seabee said:

Then why are so many in the q and wanted to be played? CV suck much more and there are more bbs in each game then evrer met in WW2!

 

 

define so many an which queue ? played the last Brawl, subs were fairly scarce, even less than CVs. howeve each time there was a sub or CV in the game the experience was so much worse ...

[MnemonScarlet]

55 minutes ago, ole_seabee said:

Then why are so many in the q and wanted to be played? CV suck much more and there are more bbs in each game then evrer met in WW2!

Because a substantial % of the playerbase enjoys playing something where they can do damage but damage can't be easily done back to them - see how Shima is literally the most played ship in PvP on NA server (and 2nd most played on SEA and EU), for example. This is because either being 'safe' is their comfort zone, or they can't handle an even fight due to skill disparity. Subs specifically are great for the DD players who want that but get annihilated earlier in matches, since subs are concealed even more than DDs.

This tendency isn't limited to DDs either, but torp DDs and now subs are a great example of it. Especially subs, with how direct PvP within the type was severely curtailed so players in subs could be more 'safe' from their counterparts.

Edited November 6, 2023 by MnemonScarlet

[ArIskandir]

Because I'm not there sinking them! 🤪

... pest reproduce at a higher rate, gotta sink them before they take over!

[Subtle_Octavian]

Subs are unfair to play, so of course people want to play them. Worrying about being detected, radar, detonations are for losers.

Just play subs 🤷‍♂️

[Asym]

1 hour ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Because the whining about them is disproportionately loud?

It's like all these people who scream "IT'S ONLY IF WE ALL SHUT OUR WALLETS THAT WG WILL LISTEN TO US AND FIX THE GAME." Maybe the reason more people don't shut their wallets is because they consider the game quite acceptable as is, subs and all. 

Sigh......  All games can be improved.

1 hour ago, ole_seabee said:

Then why are so many in the q and wanted to be played? CV suck much more and there are more bbs in each game then evrer met in WW2!

Ah, personal challenges?  

I ran a 400 COOP match survey on this issue a while back and, guess what?  There were only about 8% of the matches with a sub.....more for CV's.

And, even more if there were event challenges that required either.....

[Ensign Cthulhu]

19 minutes ago, Asym said:

Sigh......  All games can be improved.

I'm sure they can, and I can think of several ways in which I would improve this one - but the empirical evidence seems to be that enough people are sufficiently satisfied.

[Admiral_Karasu]

11 minutes ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

I'm sure they can, and I can think of several ways in which I would improve this one - but the empirical evidence seems to be that enough people are sufficiently satisfied.

The uhm the 70 percent rule or something?

[NMA101]

1 hour ago, Asym said:

I ran a 400 COOP match survey on this issue a while back and, guess what?  There were only about 8% of the matches with a sub.....more for CV's.

And, even more if there were event challenges that required either.....

I think your observation is about right, in coop maybe only 1/10 (so 10%) of matches include submarines. And of those, the split is probably 8% humans and 2% bot subs. 

CVs are more common, probably 1/3 or more, but of those the proportion of bot CVs is higher (maybe even more than 50%). Which is actually good for co-op players as CVs are an excellent source for farming XP from planes. 

[Zaydin]

3 hours ago, Wulf_Ace said:

I am more frustrated with so many german secondary BBs out there, too much of them.

Especially if you are in a cruiser; an IFHE specced Schlieffen rips you to shreds through death by 1000 cuts.

[Zaydin]

5 hours ago, ole_seabee said:

Then why are so many in the q and wanted to be played? CV suck much more and there are more bbs in each game then evrer met in WW2!

 

 

People largely satisfied about the game aren't posting on Reddit and likely don't know that DevStrike exists. So the people you are seeing complaining are a vocal minority but don't dare suggest that on Reddit lest you get insulted and harassed into oblivion.

[Musket22]

3 hours ago, Asym said:

Sigh......  All games can be improved.

Ah, personal challenges?  

I ran a 400 COOP match survey on this issue a while back and, guess what?  There were only about 8% of the matches with a sub.....more for CV's.

And, even more if there were event challenges that required either.....

Today must have been an 'outlier'.  Way more matches with a sub or two and a CV.

Thankfully only one with a CV, a hybrid and 2 subs. Yeah, that one definatly NOT "Fun & Engaging".

[Wolfswetpaws]

 

[pepe_trueno]

7 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Because the whining about them is disproportionately loud?

It's like all these people who scream "IT'S ONLY IF WE ALL SHUT OUR WALLETS THAT WG WILL LISTEN TO US AND FIX THE GAME." Maybe the reason more people don't shut their wallets is because they consider the game quite acceptable as is, subs and all. 

you know this is easy to prove. All WG has to do is  add an option to remove 1 type of ship we dont want to encounter, add some penalty like can only change once per week, cant play the selected type of ship and -15% to economic  and let's see what happens.

if it's only a loud minority then nothing will change but if its not then the forums will quickly fill of people complaining long queues and queue dumps when playing certain type of ship.

Edited November 7, 2023 by pepe_trueno

[Asym]

6 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

I'm sure they can, and I can think of several ways in which I would improve this one - but the empirical evidence seems to be that enough people are sufficiently satisfied.

In a game with a stalled population and no hope for first world content?  Oh-kay, but History kind of points to Mature games "existing" with small populations. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

I enjoy playing all available ship types.

[OT2_2]

They are too fast, too stealthy, too good armed, so their battle impact is disproportional ! I do believe that most of the people, who are choosing subs want to have impact at all costs. Something they couldn't or can't achieve with the classic, ordinary types of vessels. Why playing the crown of skills, CL IMHO, when you can accumulate DMG and WR easily with the unbalanced underwater cigars?! I think everyone of us has experienced the situation when all of a sudden a whole flank disappeared. That because of a good skilled sub - player, who killed and harrassed the guys opposing him. A good sub player can't be detected, can't be fought properly and almost always wins. This creates frustration, anger and at last retention, which (recently) is impacting randoms massively. As a result players are leaving or playing modes without this unbalanced killer of fun. 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by OT2_2

[Spent_AlimonyOnKitakami]

Its a gradual inclination for players, especially newer players, to not only use class that is simply effective, but also the adapt to the classes and strategies they are defeated by

Subs are just good, so more and more people are going to play them

Just because a seemingly vocal minority is complaining about that, doesn't mean the rest of the playerbase are complacent and happy about them

[MBT808]

2 hours ago, OT2_2 said:

They are too fast, too stealthy, too good armed, so their battle impact is disproportional ! I do believe that most of the people, who are choosing subs want to have impact at all costs. Something they couldn't or can't achieve with the classic, ordinary types of vessels. Why playing the crown of skills, CL IMHO, when you can accumulate DMG and WR easily with the unbalanced underwater cigars?! I think everyone of us has experienced the situation when all of a sudden a whole flank disappeared. That because of a good skilled sub - player, who killed and harrassed the guys opposing him. A good sub player can't be detected, can't be fought properly and almost always wins. This creates frustration, anger and at last retention, which (recently) is impacting randoms massively. As a result players are leaving or playing modes without this unbalanced killer of fun. 

 

There's also the inherent lack of hard counter to subs. Some say DDs, but you need to have hydro and happen upon a sub in the first place(cause if you miss them by an inch, you'll end up missing them by a mile(paraphrasing here)). Some ships, like cruiser with depth charges or BBs with super short range ASW planes, are at a massive disadvantage. You end up being basically a victim with no real way of countering the sub unless they mess up. Its not a fun interaction.

We could also bring up Gato and U-4501 which are inherently broken, above and beyond even the brokenness of regular subs(Gato utilizing the unnerfed mechanics that were absolutely broken and U-4501 being faster than most surface ships underwater).

Edited November 7, 2023 by MBT808

[SunkCostFallacy]

As someone who only plays COOP, I can't say that I see that many subs in the queue. Interestingly when I spawn in to a match with a player driven sub more often than not that sub did NOT show up in the queue before the loading circle-thingy blanked out the screen.

So I toss the question to your Random-players ... are there really that many people queuing in subs?