Sicilia BB look like Italian brawl ship

[VedranSeawolf359]

Sicilia BB look as very interesting ship better guns than CC strong secondaries with SAP I hope that it don't become RP ship

https://www.wows-gamer-blog.com/2023/11/3x-new-ships-closed-test-1211.html

[OT2_2]

Yes hopefully, but I don't like the very poor sigma of 1,5 for her main battery guns. BB can't rely on their secondaries alone, otherwise they have no or very little chances in battle. Bad accuracy is unfortunately still THE main issue of almost all Italian BB. 

 

[pepe_trueno]

when it comes to brawling the ship looks like a trap

 

first is the mobilty/concealment: Maximum speed - 29.6 kt. Turning circle radius - 960 m. Rudder shift time – 18.0 s. Surface detectability – 17.3 km. Air detectability – 15.2 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke  – 16.7 km.

the ship is not fast or mobile or has good concealment so good luck tring to get nearby an enemy ship let alone dodging all the things enemy ships will throw at you when they see you coming.

but muh Exhaust smoke! well you are not a yolo emilio with lightning speed... enemy ships will see the smoke slowly going their way and turn around or simply send all their torps towards it.

 

secondary guns with sap are not that great either: 

10x2 127.0 mm,  7.5 km. SAP damage  2700 Reload time - 6s. 
6x3 152.0 mm,  7.5 km SAP  damage - 3850. Reload time - 12s.

 

it doesn't say anything about enhanced accuracy(first strike)

range is not good (second strike)

effective DPM is not the best (third strike)

 

the ship looks like a 1 trick pony with dubious results that for the most part will only works against players with zero map awareness

 

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by pepe_trueno

[Zaydin]

8 hours ago, pepe_trueno said:

when it comes to brawling the ship looks like a trap

 

first is the mobilty/concealment: Maximum speed - 29.6 kt. Turning circle radius - 960 m. Rudder shift time – 18.0 s. Surface detectability – 17.3 km. Air detectability – 15.2 km. Detectability after firing main guns in smoke  – 16.7 km.

the ship is not fast or mobile or has good concealment so good luck tring to get nearby an enemy ship let alone dodging all the things enemy ships will throw at you when they see you coming.

but muh Exhaust smoke! well you are not a yolo emilio with lightning speed... enemy ships will see the smoke slowly going their way and turn around or simply send all their torps towards it.

 

secondary guns with sap are not that great either: 

10x2 127.0 mm,  7.5 km. SAP damage  2700 Reload time - 6s. 
6x3 152.0 mm,  7.5 km SAP  damage - 3850. Reload time - 12s.

 

it doesn't say anything about enhanced accuracy(first strike)

range is not good (second strike)

effective DPM is not the best (third strike)

 

the ship looks like a 1 trick pony with dubious results that for the most part will only works against players with zero map awareness

 

 

It can't be worse than Colombo which I maintain is one of, if not the worst, tier 10 BBs in the game.

[Nevermore135]

It’s essentially a tier X version of G. Verdi.

6 hours ago, Zaydin said:

It can't be worse than Colombo which I maintain is one of, if not the worst, tier 10 BBs in the game.

Even if one completely ignores her SAP secondaries, trading Colombo’s main battery SAP for ~11% (4s) faster reload is an attractive trade.

[Pugilistic]

If it can be brought in position to do plenty of secondary hits, the folks enamored of such things wont be put off if it underperforms. 

Waiting for final form of the ship and its distribution method 🍿

[New_Jersey_prpr]

3 hours ago, Nevermore135 said:

Even if one completely ignores her SAP secondaries, trading Colombo’s main battery SAP for ~11% (4s) faster reload is an attractive trade.

If you like to play AP-focused Colombo (that means using AP at least 90% of the time), then probably yes.

Besides that, I'm afraid that swapping SAP for the subpar Italian BB HE is not a fair trade.

Rearming an Italian BB with USN secondary weapons IMO is an interesting approach, though WG didn't make up a "background story" for her in the devblog. It's probably inspired by the fact that post-war Italian warships were indeed rearmed with American weapons.

(Also the camo scheme is the same as the one Italian navy used at that period.)

Edited November 6, 2023 by New_Jersey_prpr

[Zaydin]

9 hours ago, Nevermore135 said:

It’s essentially a tier X version of G. Verdi.

Even if one completely ignores her SAP secondaries, trading Colombo’s main battery SAP for ~11% (4s) faster reload is an attractive trade.

And it can actually defend itself against DDs between the HE on the main battery and the SAP secondaries unlike the Colombo.

[MnemonScarlet]

Looks like a Verdi-ed Colombo. Unlike Verdi, which is inferior to Marco Polo except for the smoke memes, I might actually be interested in this one. Especially if losing the SAP gets them to increase the sigma a bit - one can hope anyway.

Edited November 7, 2023 by MnemonScarlet

[Hugh_Ruka]

it's the armor scheme that makes a brawler, not the secondaries ... I have no clue what armor the C.C. has but I don't have it as a brawling ship in memory ...

[MBT808]

20 hours ago, MnemonScarlet said:

Looks like a Verdi-ed Colombo. Unlike Verdi, which is inferior to Marco Polo except for the smoke memes, I might actually be interested in this one. Especially if losing the SAP gets them to increase the sigma a bit - one can hope anyway.

I don’t know if Verdi is inferior to MP, those both can do well in different situations. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy MP a fair bit myself, she’s a better ship than people give her credit for.

The exhaust smoke though is so iffy now than before, since when Verdi was introduced secondaries didn’t affect detectability in smoke. Now they have penalties, so pushing with smoke isn’t going to be necessarily effective since you have to turn them off while closing to avoid the penalty(and thus making the smoke pointless). I’m skeptical of Sicilia, she might be fun but the poor accuracy of her main guns is problematic.

I’m honestly expecting Sicilia to be sold for coal(since we just got an Italian steel BB) with a doubloons launch.

[Zaydin]

48 minutes ago, MBT808 said:

the poor accuracy of her main guns is problematic.

That statement applies to every Italian BB not named Giulio Cesare.

[MBT808]

5 minutes ago, Zaydin said:

That statement applies to every Italian BB not named Giulio Cesare.

True, but it’s worse for some than others. Marco Polo at least is workable. Not amazing still, but it’s better than most of the other Italian BBs. Plus having the 406 SAP is nice, getting over the 100mm threshold is very useful.

if I could have changed one thing about Sicilia, I would’ve gone 4x3 406s with American dispersion(same sigma though).

[AkiraKurai]

1 hour ago, MBT808 said:

Marco Polo at least is workable. Not amazing still, but it’s better than most of the other Italian BBs.

I don't understand where people find MP only "workable". It's dispersion is extremly similar to Lion, a ship at least imo would be consider as standard for T9 BBs, and only suffers to vertical a bit due to short range. Another ship that shares similar dispersion numbers is Delaware, but that thing suffers from barrel count.
Funny enough, it also has higher sigma than Lion so maybe that makes up for the short range.

[MnemonScarlet]

2 hours ago, MBT808 said:

I don’t know if Verdi is inferior to MP, those both can do well in different situations. Don’t get me wrong, I enjoy MP a fair bit myself, she’s a better ship than people give her credit for.

The exhaust smoke though is so iffy now than before, since when Verdi was introduced secondaries didn’t affect detectability in smoke. Now they have penalties, so pushing with smoke isn’t going to be necessarily effective since you have to turn them off while closing to avoid the penalty(and thus making the smoke pointless). I’m skeptical of Sicilia, she might be fun but the poor accuracy of her main guns is problematic.

I’m honestly expecting Sicilia to be sold for coal(since we just got an Italian steel BB) with a doubloons launch.

The reason I say that is mostly because MP does the core function of what BBs should do better: i.e be a decent gunship. It's not great, because of the long reload the SAP imposes on you, but it's decent, the accuracy is nowhere near as bad as people say. My MP's stats are based on me using mostly the AP, only switching to SAP for an occasional cruiser shot when I think the AP wouldn't cut it (like at closer range) or for farming someone when I don't think I'll get cits. Verdi gives up some of the accuracy for some better reload, and...a smoke/secondary SAP gimmick. I get Verdi is billed as the ship you go to do dumb fun stuff in, but IIRC you gotta spend a decent amount of money for that thing - definitely not worthwhile by my estimations.

IMO, Verdi's HE/SAP secondaries/smoke/better reload should've just been an alternate hull buff WG gave MP, and then the ship in general gets to have the 1.9 Sigma. Neither Verdi nor MP are played much, so WG would've probably made more money off of just buffing MP like that and making her more appealing to people. And MP wouldn't have been too strong - there are way worse monsters especially at high tier that WG just allows to exist. Cause as @AkiraKuraisays, MP's accuracy is only ~Lion. She's roughly average, that's hardly a threat to game balance.

[MBT808]

44 minutes ago, AkiraKurai said:

I don't understand where people find MP only "workable". It's dispersion is extremly similar to Lion, a ship at least imo would be consider as standard for T9 BBs, and only suffers to vertical a bit due to short range. Another ship that shares similar dispersion numbers is Delaware, but that thing suffers from barrel count.
Funny enough, it also has higher sigma than Lion so maybe that makes up for the short range.

French/italian dispersion is markedly worse than american/british/german dispersion on BBs. Her dispersion is inconsistent, but her higher sigma vs other italian BBs makes up some of the difference. Its still not great, she has other weaknesses to consider as well. Her SAP is strong against BBs, cruisers, and CVs, but its poor against DDs and you can't start any fires. She doesn't have enhanced secondaries or gimmicky consumables. Her armor is okay, not the best for a BB(middle of the pack, beating out french, american and british BBs but losing to everything else), but good enough. MP can do well, but compared to some other BBs, she just isn't quite as good as she could be. WG also nerfed her pretty bad during development to her current form, something I don't think she needed retrospectively.

Sigma isn't really relevant as it might have once been, it requires a significant gap in order to be at all noticeable(Don't have to take my word for it, just ping LWM, she'll tell you the same).

Edited November 8, 2023 by MBT808

[NMA101]

9 hours ago, Hugh_Ruka said:

it's the armor scheme that makes a brawler, not the secondaries ... I have no clue what armor the C.C. has but I don't have it as a brawling ship in memory ...

Colombo has a somewhat-turtleback scheme, but it does not extend as far below the water as the German BBs. 

[MnemonScarlet]

15 hours ago, MBT808 said:

French/italian dispersion is markedly worse than american/british/german dispersion on BBs. Her dispersion is inconsistent, but her higher sigma vs other italian BBs makes up some of the difference.

For horizontal, remember that difference between USN/RN and the old-German/euro dispersion is only a few meters generally. Vertical is where you see much worse results, and IIRC that tends to be tied more to things like velocity of the shell/etc.

Edited November 8, 2023 by MnemonScarlet

[AkiraKurai]

15 hours ago, MBT808 said:

French/italian dispersion is markedly worse than american/british/german dispersion on BBs. Her dispersion is inconsistent, but her higher sigma vs other italian BBs makes up some of the difference. Its still not great, she has other weaknesses to consider as well. Her SAP is strong against BBs, cruisers, and CVs, but its poor against DDs and you can't start any fires. She doesn't have enhanced secondaries or gimmicky consumables. Her armor is okay, not the best for a BB(middle of the pack, beating out french, american and british BBs but losing to everything else), but good enough. MP can do well, but compared to some other BBs, she just isn't quite as good as she could be. WG also nerfed her pretty bad during development to her current form, something I don't think she needed retrospectively.

Sigma isn't really relevant as it might have once been, it requires a significant gap in order to be at all noticeable(Don't have to take my word for it, just ping LWM, she'll tell you the same).

MP and Lion literally have extremly similar dispersion like i said earlier, infact if you looked at datamine dispersion formulas for them
MP: x * 9.8 + 66 horizontal where x is the range in km equal and beyond 5 km
Lion: x * 10.012 + 60 horizontal where x is the range in km equal and beyond 5 km
Assuming the engagement is at 15km the difference between the two would only be about 3 meters (213 - 210.18) between them, you're telling me it's enough to mark one as superior over the other based off of a mearger 1.4% difference?

Sigma wasn't ever relevant, it was a combination of Sigma + dispersion, the reason why people only groveled over sigma was due to (probably ignorance) limited BBs to compare off of in regards to dispersion variety since every nations lines have their set dispersions which iirc, do keep from T4 to T10, meanwhile sigma changed from ship to ship, this was fucked once weegee in their infinite wisdom added "BC dispersion" to a lot of T10 BBs and more lines.