Massively noob question

[Capt_Kremenski]

Guys, please don't mock me, I'm asking an honest question here and just want an honest answer.

What is winrate?

I'm a coop main, I've played 18K odd battles in coop and 100 in randoms.

My winrate in randoms is 43% (yes I know that's absolute dogdirt, I don't need to be told it is so please don't).

So winrate - is it if your team wins the battle, is it if you survive the battle, or is it both?

Please don't blind me with science, make it as easy as possible to understand.

 

Much obliged.

[Nevermore135]

3 minutes ago, Capt_Kremenski said:

So winrate - is it if your team wins the battle, is it if you survive the battle, or is it both?

Win rate is the rate at which your team wins. Whether or not your ship is still afloat doesn’t matter.

[GMMF]

Win rate (WR) is described above, while survival rate (SR) shows whether you survived at the end. Both are different things. 

[DoW_]

What’s your win rate in coop?  

[HMS_Kilinowski]

39 minutes ago, Capt_Kremenski said:

Guys, please don't mock me, I'm asking an honest question here and just want an honest answer.

What is winrate?

I'm a coop main, I've played 18K odd battles in coop and 100 in randoms.

My winrate in randoms is 43% (yes I know that's absolute dogshit, I don't need to be told it is so please don't).

So winrate - is it if your team wins the battle, is it if you survive the battle, or is it both?

Please don't blind me with science, make it as easy as possible to understand.

 

Much obliged.

 

Winrate is the fraction of your won battles played in a certain game mode. If your winrate is 43% and you have played exactly 100 random battles then:

winrate = wins / battles.

The 43% are mathematically written as 0.43. So you substitute the generic terms with your specific values and you get:

0.43 = wins / 100

or

wins = 0.43 * 100 = 43

So you won 43 battles of those 100 randoms battles.

[desmo_2]

2 hours ago, Capt_Kremenski said:

What is winrate?

It is a stat that should not be fretted over...by anyone.

Any player who brings up your win rate in a game is a pathetic twit who is probably consumed by watching Match Making Monitor.  Ignore these people.

Play a good game.  Enjoy it if you are able to do so...and don't let the win or the loss weigh too heavily on your enjoyment. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by desmo_2

[Wolfswetpaws]

As others have mentioned the correct answer, I'll second the notion that winrate is a statistic that one need not lose sleep over.  🙂 

https://na.wows-numbers.com/

https://na.wows-numbers.com/player/1031789485,Wolfswetpaws/
 

[Efros]

What Wolfswetpaws said, COOP win rate is completely and utterly pointless.

[Wulf_Ace]

9 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

As others have mentioned the correct answer, I'll second the notion that winrate is a statistic that one need not lose sleep over.  🙂 

https://na.wows-numbers.com/

https://na.wows-numbers.com/player/1031789485,Wolfswetpaws/
 

Why not? Imagine if you are playing in some team sport and the team is losing becouse of your low effort. It should make people wanna win more and try more, not just play forthemselfs its a team game. There are a lot of single player games put there where you can be bad at your own will, nobody will say a word but in a team game you need to give some effort at least.

People SHOULD care.

[Wolfswetpaws]

3 minutes ago, Wulf_Ace said:

10 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

As others have mentioned the correct answer, I'll second the notion that winrate is a statistic that one need not lose sleep over.  🙂 

https://na.wows-numbers.com/

https://na.wows-numbers.com/player/1031789485,Wolfswetpaws/
 

Why not? Imagine if you are playing in some team sport and the team is losing becouse of your low effort. It should make people wanna win more and try more, not just play forthemselfs its a team game. There are a lot of single player games put there where you can be bad at your own will, nobody will say a word but in a team game you need to give some effort at least.

People SHOULD care.

Healthy efforts to improve one's life and harmony won't involve losing sleep over whether a WOWs game was a win or a loss.
This does not prevent one from making a healthy effort to cultivate the Zen of WOWs and improve one's play.

Also, other tasks in one's life may have a higher priority.
I was in a random battle last night and was playing a submarine.  I was scoring torpedo hits on a New Mexico that had stopped moving.
I typed in all-chat and asked the player to stop being a sitting-duck.  (And I ceased my fire upon their ship and selected another opponent.)
They replied that they were momentarily distracted by needing to help their young child with something (which was more important).
I then congratulated them on becoming a Dad and sent them a "good manners" compliment.

It was a real-life moment that we bonded over instead of getting upset about.  🙂 
 

[Wulf_Ace]

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

Healthy efforts to improve one's life and harmony won't involve losing sleep over whether a WOWs game was a win or a loss.
This does not prevent one from making a healthy effort to cultivate the Zen of WOWs and improve one's play.

Also, other tasks in one's life may have a higher priority.
I was in a random battle last night and was playing a submarine.  I was scoring torpedo hits on a New Mexico that had stopped moving.
I typed in all-chat and asked the player to stop being a sitting-duck.  (And I ceased my fire upon their ship and selected another opponent.)
They replied that they were momentarily distracted by needing to help their young child with something (which was more important).
I then congratulated them on becoming a Dad and sent them a "good manners" compliment.

It was a real-life moment that we bonded over instead of getting upset about.  🙂 
 

No.

If you cant focus for 15 minutes for the game dont press battle or dont play online games at all there is tons of offline games out there.

When my friend got a baby, he stopped playing since he cant focus, he didnt go afk every 5 mins to ruins everyone else game, he will return when he has more time. Until then he play games that he can pause. 

[Wolfswetpaws]

2 hours ago, Wulf_Ace said:

No.

If you cant focus for 15 minutes for the game dont press battle or dont play online games at all there is tons of offline games out there.

When my friend got a baby, he stopped playing since he cant focus, he didnt go afk every 5 mins to ruins everyone else game, he will return when he has more time. Until then he play games that he can pause. 

I'm sure you're smart enough to realize this, already, but .... other people's behavior is not something you get to control.  🙂 

All the angst and wailing & gnashing of teeth about what amounts to a "first world problem" seems like a waste of time, to me.  🙂 

[Arcus_Aesopi]

18 hours ago, Capt_Kremenski said:

Please don't blind me with science, make it as easy as possible to understand.

I think it's illegal to use a line from a song without a link...  Just trying to protect you and the forums 😄

[Andrewbassg]

20 hours ago, Capt_Kremenski said:

What is winrate?

So....other people have also touched on this, tho.... they didn't do it completely.

43% means that if "you" played 100 battles "you" have won 43 battles. But it also means that "you" lost 57. That's strictly in case of 100 battles, If we talk about 1000 battles, then it means that you won 430 and...... lost 570. 

Generally speaking, 43% WR is not.....good. it  is a sign  that one could improve how he plays the game. Stil.... this isn't as straightforward, because Wows is a team game, nobody can win a match by himself, no matter how good he is. And there other factors,  which could play a significant role (different servers have different playstyles, some servers have "happy hours", maybe one didn't find the right class for himself, etc etc.)

Others have told you to not lose  sleep over it. While this is "correct"  (I mean "its a game")  I will tell  you do what you feel is important to you. 🙂 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Andrewbassg

[Admiral_Karasu]

50 minutes ago, Andrewbassg said:

Generally speaking, 43% WR is not.....good. it  is a sign  that one could improve how he plays the game. Stil.... this isn't as straightforward, because Wows is a team game, nobody can win a match by himself, no matter how good he is.

The reverse of which is, of course, that nobody can lose a match by himself either.

[Andrewbassg]

51 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

The reverse of which is, of course, that nobody can lose a match by himself either.

Hmmm...that's actually a tricky one.  🙂 

As in all dynamically evolving  contexts,( like all adversarial games and also RL combat) there are moments which are more  deterministic towards a favourable  outcome than others. In moments like this individual action ergo thinking  also determination, matters.  For example (to cut the fancy wording 🙂 ) team on advantage, last ship RUUUUUN! 🙂 . I did lost battles (well not like this, but in other ways 🙂 ) because I failed to recognise the proper course of actions.

However, it is 100% true that getting in to those moments never happen in a vacuum,  prior events exists and so do their consequences.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Andrewbassg

[Capt_Kremenski]

Thanks for the replies guys.

The reason I was confused is because my winrate and battles survived is EXACTLY the same at 43.56% so wasn't sure if it was my team winning or my team winning and me surviving.

@DoW_ my WR in coop is 99.31%

[Col_NASTY]

As many have told you Ignore winrates.  The ones who live by it are really pretty clueless. 

I can't tell you ( as many here can as well ) how many KRAKEN Top of the board Losses I have. 

If I cared it would drive me nuts.🤪

[desmo_2]

22 hours ago, Wulf_Ace said:

Why not? Imagine if you are playing in some team sport and the team is losing becouse of your low effort. It should make people wanna win more and try more, not just play forthemselfs its a team game. There are a lot of single player games put there where you can be bad at your own will, nobody will say a word but in a team game you need to give some effort at least.

People SHOULD care.

You are misunderstanding.

I didn't say a player should not care about their game play.  I'm of the opinion that a player should not get too wrapped up with the win rate number.  The rest of the team gets a big vote on how games turn out, so you can't necessarily control your win rate.

Play to win every game.  Play to be number 1 on your team.  Play to be the best spotter for your team mates, or the best balance of tanking damage and delivering it, or whatever your role is.  If you play a good game enjoy it, but don't let the game result affect that enjoyment too much, because you cannot control the other 11 players on your team.  And often, they just won't cooperate with good game play.

[Wolfswetpaws]

17 hours ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

The reverse of which is, of course, that nobody can lose a match by himself either.

With the possible exception of the "1 versus 1" Brawls mode.
But 1 versus 1 brawls are a temporary game mode, in comparison to random battles.

[SunkCostFallacy]

23 hours ago, Wulf_Ace said:

Why not? Imagine if you are playing in some team sport and the team is losing becouse of your low effort. It should make people wanna win more and try more, not just play forthemselfs its a team game.

But is it a team game? 

By definition a team is a group who are working together to achieve the goals of that group. That's not what we have in the vast majority of WoWS.

Take Randoms and COOP, the two primary games modes. In both modes the players are trying to maximise their XP and that means they are competing with their team mates to do damage against the enemy. Granted Randoms is less frenzied that COOP, but it's still a competition to get on the top of the board at the end of the match.

Then you throw in events and their missions which frequently lead to players pressing the battle button with a goal other than winning in mind ... torp hits, spotting damage, shooting down aircraft, fire or flooding damage, etc ... all lead to play which is what the player wants, but which is not necessarily the best for the team.

 

 

[Admiral_Karasu]

4 minutes ago, SunkCostFallacy said:

But is it a team game? 

By definition a team is a group who are working together to achieve the goals of that group. That's not what we have in the vast majority of WoWS.

Take Randoms and COOP, the two primary games modes. In both modes the players are trying to maximise their XP and that means they are competing with their team mates to do damage against the enemy. Granted Randoms is less frenzied that COOP, but it's still a competition to get on the top of the board at the end of the match.

Then you throw in events and their missions which frequently lead to players pressing the battle button with a goal other than winning in mind ... torp hits, spotting damage, shooting down aircraft, fire or flooding damage, etc ... all lead to play which is what the player wants, but which is not necessarily the best for the team.

 

 

 

It's often been said in randoms you face up to 23 opponents.

[Ensign Cthulhu]

15 minutes ago, Admiral_Karasu said:

It's often been said in randoms you face up to 23 opponents.

There was someone on the old forums whose avatar image was a Priority Target indicator with the number 23 photoshopped in. 

[Jakob Knight]

Others have given a good explanation of the mechanics of winrate, so i will contribute my understanding of its purpose and meaning.

 

Winrate, as with other statistics provided, exist to help each player evaluate their own performance in the game and where they can improve.  Unlike some other statistics, it is not one that concerns the player themselves but how often the battles they have been in have resulted in victory, regardless of their own contributions.  A player themselves has to evaluate their own performance after each battle and recognize what was good, what they didn't do well, and look at their past battles to spot habits and overall approach to the game to determine how to go forwards.  Winrate is just one more piece of info to include in that self-evaluation.

 

Unfortunately, there are those among any gaming community that want quick and simple ways to evaluate their standing among their peers rather than put in the effort to do a comprehensive look at all the info available.  Winrate is a convenient target for such people, and they will often bring it up as a stand-alone metric of individual player ability despite that it does not measure that.  

Thus, I recommend you take the winrate statistic for what it is and nothing more.  Factor in what you know of the battles you were in and apply those lessons while ignoring anyone who attempts to bring that singular point of information as the entire story.

 

 

[SoshiSone]

A few statistic on the nature of win percentage and the size of the sample (i.e., number of games played).

The more games you play, the larget the sample size. The larger the sample size, the less each game impacts a change in the percentage.

At about 100 gaems, each new game played affects your rate by about 1%.

At 1000 games, each new game played affects yoru rate by about 0.1%.

At 10000 games, each new game played affects your rate gby about 0.01%.

**************************************************************************

So, let's say you have a 55% WR and you win 5 games in a row with the 100, 1000, or 10000 games played.

If you have 100 games under your belt, that will push you to almost 60%.

If you have 1000 games under your belt, that will push you to 55.5%.

If you have 10000 games under your belt, that will push you to 55.01%.

****************************************************************************

Now lets do 5 losses in a row:

At 100 games, that will push you to 50%

At 1000 games, that will push you to 54.5%

At 10000 games, it will be 54.99%

******************************************************************************

As you can see, the more games you play, the less each game will impact the percentage.  Few games played results in each game having a very big impact (good or bad) on win rate.  If you have lots of games played, each game has an ever smaller impact on win rate (good or bad).

**********************************************************************************

Another interesting factor is the number of games required to move one's win rate as a function of games played.

If you have 100 games played and are at 50% and are able to play at the 60% level for the next 100 games, you achive the percentage in the middle, 55%

If you have 1000 games played and are at 50% you would need to play 60% for the next 1000 games to get to 55%

*********************************************************************************

Another way to think is in terms of every ten games played to achieve a certain level.  Let's say it's perfectly random.  That gives five wins and five loses on average.  50%.

If you can swing one random loss into a win every ten games, that is a 60% player.  Let that sink in for a moment.  If you can be the deciding factor every ten games that turns a loss to a win, you are a 60% player.

***********************************************************************************

Divisions skew the odds.  MM must place a division on the same team.  Thus, it's not a 12 by 12 random selection.  You only have a 9/21 (43%) chance of getting the divsion team and a 12/21 (57%) chance of getting the other team. This assumes there is only one division in queue. If the division is unicum and can often carry a win, that means you have a 57% chance of being on the losing end becuase you have a 57% chance of being on the non-unicum team.  

That said, if the division is composed of shity players, you now have a 57% chance of not being on the team with the shity player division.

All said, a unicum division (composed of players that solo in the 60s) can easily bump their overall WR even higher by divisioning as they will ALWAYS be on the 57% side.

Suffice to say, if there is a unicum division prowling a tier on a low queue night (without a balancing division), you will be on the bad team 57% of the time.

***********************************************************************************

But no worries.  Just jump in and do your best.  Learn what works and what doesn't work.  I'm at 22K games.  I still don't know everything and I still have those moments when I tell myself, "well, that didn't work the way I expected".  They are much fewer than my early years. But I still get them.  Always learning.  Adapting.  Figuring out what works. What doesn't work.  Over time, it will all come together.  Takes time.  You can still have fun while learning.  But don't sweat your win rate.  Just focus on getting better and the win rate will follow. 

 

Edited November 7, 2023 by SoshiSone