Personal thoughts on Scharnhorst B and WiP Scharnhorst 43

[Project45_Opytny]

As the title implies.

I have been considering getting Scharnhorst, preferably Scharnhorst B with discounts, primarily for personal nostalgic reasons (related with my early gaming days back at WoWS CN. Yet it's almost irony that the game, under the name World of Warships, as a whole is heading towards that sort of stagnation from which I escaped once again worldwide) and potentially adding another alternative brawler in Tier 7-exclusive modes after Gneisenau, Prinz Heinrich, Sinop and Renown'44.

And last night it is announced that Scharnhorst'43 (hereafter as S-43) will be given essentially for free in the Xmas-New Year event in December, and the ship herself has also underwent some promising (despite there are also regrettable parts like the Repair party gets nerfed into regular ones) balance changes.

With the changes, now S-43 has slightly shorter range than original Scharn (18.9 vs. 19.9), longer main battery reload (23s), regular fuse time (that currently I cannot tell whether it is good or bad), and without access to spotter to extend range. In exchange, S-43 regained largely the same main battery accuracy parameters (bar minor annoyances caused by how vertical dispersion is calculated), has better module HP distrubution that will reduce instances of penetration damage caused by superstructure and casemate, shorter torpedo reload, shorter secondaries reload (that give secondaries DPM, before all other buffs are considered, a 9.95% boost), and a +15% engine boost that can push her to 39.8 kts with all available buffs and 36.2 kts in a brawl (without Swift in Silence). For now at least the most emotionally disturbing factor (1.8 Sigma) has gone, and as she is going to be offered for just playing during December that I assume I will likely do so, it seems that by now S-43 is not that detestable, and may be argued that she has made the previous idea of getting a Scharnhorst B moot by making "her original incarnation" that have to be purchased with cash redundant. The lack of spotter still hurts, yet judging from her intended role both in battles and in the whole picture, the side effects of a secondaries brawler build and how Tier 7 ships fare in Random battles environment, it may be not that serious to discard that in favor of better brawling capabilities, as she would likely end up as a dedicated "T7-exclusive-event ship" anyway. Not to say that she is going to be a free event ship on the ground that I haven't purchased the original Scharnhorst yet.

Though, there is still a little more than a month left, that some changes can still be made. Hopefully they will be positive ones if they come indeed.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Project45_Opytny

[Nevermore135]

I’m still not excited for Scharnhorst’43. Tier VII BBs are in an awkward spot regarding secondaries, where they don’t quite have the range of tier VIII+ ships and the lack of the concealment upgrade makes getting into range more difficult. Combine this with only standard German BB secondary dispersion and I don’t think the secondaries are anything to get excited about.

Her main battery is overall worse than Scharnhorst as well. While longer fuse times can be arguably an advantage (personally, it’s more of a side-grade at best), a 15% longer reload time is hard to stomach. Scharnhorst’s 283mm guns are also not nearly as effective as they used to be back when Scharnhorst was one of the stronger Tier VII BBs. Her gunnery effectiveness took a big hit when the IFHE/cruiser plating changes were implemented and 25mm (non-overmatchable) decks became standard on mid-tier cruisers. All this means her gunnery is going to feel a lot like Odin’s, which is not a good thing.

IMO, one should just play Gneisenau if one wants a tanky secondary brawler experience at tier VII. She’s two knots faster than Scharnhorst to begin with (which I consider better than a speed boost consumable), her 380mm guns don’t suffer from the same penetration/overmatch issues as Scharnhorst’s (especially if you are running a secondary build and forgo ASM1, which is really needed for her 283mm guns because you need to be precise with your shot placement) with only 3s longer reload, and her B hull has a uniform secondary battery of 128mm dual-purpose guns that all pen 32mm without IFHE.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Nevermore135

[Wolfswetpaws]

"Scharnhorst '43"?
Seems like a solution in search of a problem our money.

[Admiral_Karasu]

22 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

"Scharnhorst '43"?
Seems like a solution in search of a problem our money.

There would have been a more stylish way to incorporate the concept into WoWS, if the idea had been to give us representations of historical refits. Refits could have simply been handled the same as researchable equipment modules, in a sense like the 'Field Modifications' in WoT, and the different refits would have changed the ship tiers accordingly. Probably would have been a lot more work to code it in the game, easy money grabs are always... well, easy by their nature.

[TimurGlazkov]

28 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

"Scharnhorst '43"?
Seems like a solution in search of a problem our money.

It's going to be free though?

But I'm still sticking to my Renown '44, better gun, better torps, hydro and Massa heal. Other than that, Gneisenau and Prinz Heinrich has everything covered.

Edited November 3, 2023 by TimurGlazkov
grammar lmao

[Ensign Cthulhu]

32 minutes ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

"Scharnhorst '43"?
Seems like a solution in search of a problem our money.

Or so it would be if WG wasn't going to make it so easy to get her for free.

[Project45_Opytny]

17 minutes ago, Nevermore135 said:

I’m still not excited for Scharnhorst’43. Tier VII BBs are in an awkward spot regarding secondaries, where they don’t quite have the range of tier VIII+ ships and the lack of the concealment upgrade makes getting into range more difficult. Combine this with only standard German BB secondary dispersion and I don’t think the secondaries are anything to get excited about.

Her main battery is overall worse than Scharnhorst as well. While longer fuse times can be arguably an advantage (personally, it’s more of a side-grade at best), a 15% longer reload time is hard to stomach. Scharnhorst’s 283mm guns are also not nearly as effective as they used to be back when Scharnhorst was one of the stronger Tier VII BBs. Her gunnery effectiveness took a big hit when the IFHE/cruiser plating changes were implemented and 25mm (non-overmatchable) decks became standard on mid-tier cruisers. All this means her gunnery is going to feel a lot like Odin’s, which is not a good thing.

IMO, one should just play Gneisenau if one wants a tanky secondary brawler experience at tier VII. She’s two knots faster than Scharnhorst to begin with (which I consider better than a speed boost consumable), her 380mm guns don’t suffer from the same penetration/overmatch issues as Scharnhorst’s (especially if you are running a secondary build and forgo ASM1, which is really needed for her 283mm guns because you need to be precise with your shot placement) with only 3s longer reload, and her B hull has a uniform secondary battery of 128mm dual-purpose guns that all pen 32mm without IFHE.

Yes, all these are correct, or at least very reasonable.

The original idea is that, as Scharnhorst 43 gets modified and the event to get her forecasted, after a day's consideration, S-43 in this incarnation completely eliminates Scharnhorst B from my wish list (and arguably anyone who has some interest in Scharnhorst but hasn't bought that yet) for good as she can be earned largely for free by playing actively in December, and at least not inferior to "original" Scharnhorst in the circumstances that I would intentionally bring her into battles to begin with.

I have Renown 44 as well as Sinop, Gneisenau and Prinz Heinrich all with dedicated commanders. The desire for Scharnhorst B was primarily due to some personal and nostalgic reasons, but now practically neutralized by the announcement that Scharnhorst 43, with main battery Sigma restored to 2.0, will be available for free.

[TimurGlazkov]

8 minutes ago, Project45_Opytny said:

Yes, all these are correct, or at least very reasonable.

The original idea is that, as Scharnhorst 43 gets modified and the event to get her forecasted, after a day's consideration, S-43 in this incarnation completely eliminates Scharnhorst B from my wish list (and arguably anyone who has some interest in Scharnhorst but hasn't bought that yet) for good as she can be earned largely for free by playing actively in December, and at least not inferior to "original" Scharnhorst in the circumstances that I would intentionally bring her into battles to begin with.

I have Renown 44 as well as Sinop, Gneisenau and Prinz Heinrich all with dedicated commanders. The desire for Scharnhorst B was primarily due to some personal and nostalgic reasons, but now practically neutralized by the announcement that Scharnhorst 43, with main battery Sigma restored to 2.0, will be available for free.

Good call, I feel like either original or '43 Scharnhorst would have been ok, considering all the competitors in the same role (hell, even Sinop gets 26mm pen with IFHE and improved secondary dispersion) are easily accessible. I got Scharny from Supercontainer last December and had a good time with her this year, but honestly you aren't missing anything.

[Asym]

1 hour ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

"Scharnhorst '43"?
Seems like a solution in search of a problem our money.

Yep, as a great man once said:  "You are correct, SIR ! "

[New_Jersey_prpr]

Just took a look at the charts and found that Scharnhorst in fact has lower DPM than average. I thought she should have higher DPM due to short reload time.

So......her DPM is subpar (and on the 43 one it will only be worse), but the 2.0 sigma should help her to hit stuff more easily, but I wonder to what extent.

The engine boost addition is welcomed, at least it can help dodging shells, and this engine boost is the best one available for BB in game (180s action time and +15% boost), personally I think this engine boost is a fair trade for the nerfed specs.

Someone mentioned T7 Renown, she's not a bad ship, but her short range will become a big problem when enemy is pushing hard/getting bottom tiered (ASIA players should know what I'm talking about). Scharnhorst 43's range, despite nerfed compared to the OG one, is still pretty adequate, this makes her more comfortable overall.

Edit: changing secondary guns to 128 mm is also a good idea, to further differ her from the OG Scharnhorst w/o doing too much work.

Edited November 3, 2023 by New_Jersey_prpr

[Wolfswetpaws]

16 hours ago, TimurGlazkov said:

It's going to be free though?

 

 

16 hours ago, Ensign Cthulhu said:

Or so it would be if WG wasn't going to make it so easy to get her for free.

For whatever reason, I don't remember reading about how Scharnhorst '43 will be possible to get "for free".
Looks like I've got some reading to do.

[GhostPeppers]

You've probably already found the info, but here is a link to the Dev Blog.

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/490

The part about the Scharnhorst '43 is about halfway down.

Edited November 4, 2023 by GhostPeppers