LittleWhiteMouse Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Here's the numbers you need to know for IFHE. To see if you should use IFHE in the build of your current captain, just scroll down this list of the appropriate ship type and cross-reference the size of your ship's armament. -EDIT- For those looking for the reasoning behind this summary: Hide contents My goal with this list was to create a very basic yes/no binary for the typical World of Warships player. It is NOT nuanced. The IFHE rework has changed IFHE from a brainless "if you have the skill points, always take it". Heck, you could slap it on 203mm guns previously and it provided a small benefit in select cases (even if this was largely laughable). There was almost no drawback. That's changed now and it comes down to a question of what's more valuable -- fire or direct damage? Generally speaking, direct damage is always going to be more valuable. So long as there were enough targets on the menu opened up by IFHE, and it wasn't a target that was going to get the average user killed by engaging it (like say, putting IFHE on a destroyer in order to engage radar-heavy American cruisers with guns) I gave it a "yes". This does leave out an enormous range of situational / expert cases where IFHE is a benefit for select ships. Examples of this include putting IFHE on select heavy cruisers in order to punish Soviet battleships. It's worth keeping in mind that the needs for a limited Matchmaking engagement, such as in Ranked or Clan Battles will put more or less stress on the need for IFHE depending on the targets present. Again, I must stress that this short summary is incredibly simplified and it had to be for brevity's sake. I have literal pages of armour values, diagrams and charts mapping all of this crap, but presenting it would have only confused people who were looking for a simple yes/no binary. I could chat your ear off forever about the armour changes. Kuma got boned and the tier VI heavy cruisers were the biggest winners. Graf Spee's armour changes in partciular were fascinating with Huanghe and Perth getting artificially buffed over Leander which is weird, but neat. However dumping all of this information into the summary article, while it would allow players to better make nuanced judgements for themselves, it would have caused the following problems: Information overload for the layman. Taken far too damn long to write and present. A longer article discussing the merits of IFHE is definitely worthwhile, but making it comprehensive would be the length of a college thesis. I mean, seriously -- take Smolensk as just an example. You can't talk about the merits of IFHE on Smolensk without also discussing her ballistics, range and AP performance. The increase in structural armour affects her AP as well as her HE, so looking at armour layout of every single bloody ship out there would also have to be taken into account. Just putting that article together could easily top 2,000 words and necessitate graphs mapping ballistics, dispersion, fire chance, AP penetration and armour layouts of some of the problem ships she'd be facing. Now consider also discussing Henri IV and Hindenburg, never mind every other questionable case from Atlanta to British 120mm to the Japanese duckies or Massachusetts' & German secondaries. There's a lot of good conversations to be had here and I do not intend for this short summary to be the final word. It's just there for those who don't want to invest the time into thinking about IFHE and wanted a quick answer. Destroyers Hide contents Tier II - IFHE is not needed. Tier III - IFHE is not needed. Tier IV - IFHE is not needed. Tier V - IFHE is not needed when top tier, but is useful when facing higher tiered opponents. Tier VI - Generally speaking, IFHE is effective for all gun calibers, but of less value when facing tier VIII opponents. 120mm guns are especially taxed when bottom tier. Tier VII - Generally speaking, IFHE is effective for all gun calibers, but of less value when facing tier VIII & IX opponents. 120mm guns are especially taxed when bottom tier. Tier VIII Japanese 100mm - Take IFHE 120mm - Not recommended 127mm - Effective when top tier. IFHE's use falls off dramatically against tier VIII+ cruisers and battleships. 128mm - Effective when top tier. IFHE's use falls off dramatically against tier VIII+ cruisers and battleships. 130mm & 139mm - IFHE Is reasonably effective due to ability to penetrate all tier VI & VII battleships and cruisers from tiers VI through IX. 150mm - IFHE Is reasonably effective due to ability to penetrate all tier VI & VII battleships and cruisers from tiers VI through IX. Tier IX Japanese 100mm - Take IFHE 113mm - Not recommended 120mm - Not recommended 127mm - Not recommended 128mm - Not recommended 130mm & 139mm - IFHE Is reasonably effective due to ability to penetrate all tier VII battleships and cruisers from tiers VII through IX, but take it or leave it. Tier X Japanese 100mm - Take IFHE 113mm - Not recommended. 120mm - Not recommended 127mm - Not recommended 128mm - Not recommended 130mm - Not recommended 139mm - Not recommended -Edit- Allow me to add a little caveat here for destroyers. Understandably, if you're not playing a gunship that uses its guns often, IFHE isn't going to be worthwhile. So don't go forking out 4 skill points for IFHE on a Minekaze, you goofs. Cruisers Hide contents Tier I - Stop it, you twink. Tier II - IFHE is not needed. Tier III - IFHE is not needed. Tier IV - IFHE is not needed. Tier V - When top tier, IFHE isn't necessary, but it becomes very important against higher tiered opponents. Don't take it if you're German. Tier VI 150mm - Not needed due to increased penetration of Nurnberg & Makarov. 152mm - Take IFHE. Reduced effectiveness against tier VIII+ battleships. 180mm - Take IFHE. 203mm - Don't take IFHE on 203mm armed ships. 283mm - Put IFHE down, Spee. Tier VII 127mm - Effective when top tier. IFHE's use falls off dramatically against tier VIII+ cruisers and battleships. 152mm - Take IFHE. Reduced effectiveness against tier VIII+ battleships. 203mm - Stop it. Get some help. 210mm - Yorck is German. What are you doing? You don't need IFHE. Tier VIII 152mm - Take IFHE. 155mm - Take IFHE. Mogami 155mm is one of the biggest winners with the IFHE rework. 203mm - I am going to hurt you. Tier IX 152mm - Take IFHE 180mm - Take IFHE. 203mm - ... 305mm - Now you're just being silly. 310mm - Shut up, boobie-lady. Tier X 127mm - Not recommended 130mm - Not recommended 152mm - Take IFHE 203mm - Where did I leave my chain-axe? 220mm - Not recommended 234mm - Not recommended 240mm - Not recommended 305mm - Nope. 310mm - Also nope. Battleship Secondaries Hide contents Secondaries only really get good enough to spec into from tier VII+ so we'll start there. Tier VII Nagato - Nope Ashitaka - Nope Colorado - Very no. Sinop - Nope Poltava - Shame on you, no. Gneisenau - Nope, her HE pen is good enough without it. Scharnhorst - If you want to be twinky and have her 105mm penetrate battleship extremities for the memes, go for it. But this is more of a joke than actually needed. King Georgge V - Nope Hood - Nope Nelson - Nope Duke of York - Nope Lyon - Very no. Tier VIII Amagi - Nope Kii - Her 100mm look SOOOO good, but their range sucks monkey butts, so they're not worth spec'ing into. Nope. North Carolina - Nope Alabama - Nope Massachusetts - It's only effective when she's top tier. Otherwise, the use for this falls off dramatically. It's no longer really good. Vladivostok - God no. Lenin - Leave these neckbeard secondaries out of it. Bismarck - Again, the 105s could use it but you don't NEED it. Use those skill points elsewhere. Tirpitz - As per her famous big sister. Monarch - HAHAHA, very no. Vanguard - Also no. Richelieu - Nope. Gascogne - MAYBE if you brawl often with Gascogne. Actually, it would be fascinating to meet someone who simply plays Gascogne often. Nope otherwise. Roma - Nope. Tier IX Izumo - God, no. Musashi - HA! No. Iowa - Nope. Missouri - Nope Georgia - Pass here too. You're just not facing enough lower-tiered ships where her penetration threshold works. Like the German ships, you can go for it if you want to giggle a bit, but it's not worthwhile. Sovetsky Soyuz - Nope Friedrich der Große - As before with other German BBs. It's only fun for the memes, but it's not needed. They're good without it. Lion - Very no on toast. Alsace - Nope. Jean Bart - Nope. Bajie - Nope. Tier X Yamato - No. Montana - Also no. Ohio - Also also no. Kremlin - Also also also no. Großer Kurfurst - Also also also also no. Conqueror - Also also also also also no. Thunderer - Also also also also also also no. Republique - Also also also also also also also no. Bourgogne - Say it with me: Also also also also also also also also no. I suppose I could have just "TL-DR" - if German with 105mm at tier VII+, sure, otherwise Also No." There you go. Your mileage will vary on select ships, but these should suffice for players who have reset their skills. 1 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palestreamer Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Glad this got reposted from the old forum. I always check it when getting a new ship. Thx! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banwydragon Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Thanks very much. Found this very useful when first published and kept the link open on my phone for quite some time now. I guess I'll take one last look at the old forum page and say goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrepentantSinner Posted October 30, 2023 Share Posted October 30, 2023 Great that this is available again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzurArmy Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Hey, I play gascogne often! After 3 years she's my third most played ship to date. I love gascogne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crokodone Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 6 hours ago, AzurArmy said: Hey, I play gascogne often! After 3 years she's my third most played ship to date. I love gascogne. How many battles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Themisto Posted November 3, 2023 Share Posted November 3, 2023 Quote Destroyers Tier IV - IFHE is not needed. I am not sure about that. If you are in a DD that has 102mm canos it is quite good. With it, you can pan up to 21mm, which means you can damage most BBs on tiers 4 and 5 much easier. "Normal" deck plating of this ship is 19mm and your penetration without it is only 18mm. For example, it is quite fun running IFHE on Clemson (US tier 4 DD) with the 20% range extension of the "Main Battery and AA Expert" skill. Izyaslav (UdSSR tier 4 DD) is also quite nice with IFHE since you already have a range of over 10km to doge BB shells. On a other note. It is nice that your awesome reviews have now a new home. ^c^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoxHound Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 Can anyone comment on Colbert specifically? I know it's 127mm but I feel like I get shatters on superstructure that I'd love to gain back given there's not a great use for the last 5 captain skill points anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrepentantSinner Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 7 minutes ago, BoxHound said: Can anyone comment on Colbert specifically? I know it's 127mm but I feel like I get shatters on superstructure that I'd love to gain back given there's not a great use for the last 5 captain skill points anyway. Colbert is an amazing firestarter, by taking IFHE you loose that and still can't pen 30mm armor, it's not worth it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBTHEBALL Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 There's like >10 ships in-game that benefit greatly from using IFHE. I don't really know where I'd use it or when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I_cant_Swim_ Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 13 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said: There's like >10 ships in-game you either mean <10, or I need to go back to bed. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricericon Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 How well does IFHE work for the higher levels of the Schlieffen line? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrepentantSinner Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 13 minutes ago, Tricericon said: How well does IFHE work for the higher levels of the Schlieffen line? I love it on the Schlieffen and Prinz Rupprecht, it also works great on the Zieten and Prinz Heinrich, if i remember correctly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcus_Aesopi Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Tricericon said: How well does IFHE work for the higher levels of the Schlieffen line? 4 Destroyers worth (24) of fast guns that pen 32mm armor, 2.2 sec rate of fire with 4.5% (flagged + DE) fire chance... 2 Cruisers worth (16) of fast guns that pen 47mm armor. 4.9 sec rate of fire with 6% (flagged + DE) fire chance... IFHE on Schlieffen is pretty much required... then add Gunther... Edited November 18, 2023 by Arcusaesopi 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricericon Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 23 minutes ago, Arcusaesopi said: 4 Destroyers worth (24) of fast guns that pen 32mm armor, 2.2 sec rate of fire with 4.5% (flagged + DE) fire chance... 2 Cruisers worth (16) of fast guns that pen 47mm armor. 4.9 sec rate of fire with 6% (flagged + DE) fire chance... IFHE on Schlieffen is pretty much required... then add Gunther... Very cool, thank you. If I am building dedicated captains below Schlieffen herself, at which tier should I switch from an incendiary secondaries build (or a tank build?) to the IFHE approach? Or is IFHE worth it all the way through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcus_Aesopi Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 39 minutes ago, Tricericon said: Very cool, thank you. If I am building dedicated captains below Schlieffen herself, at which tier should I switch from an incendiary secondaries build (or a tank build?) to the IFHE approach? Or is IFHE worth it all the way through? If you're talking tank, that's random and I don't random... you don't "really" tank in co-op. It may apply a bit to Asymmetric and Operations, but probably not enough to re-spec between your co-op build and a tank build. Potato Quality just did a good review of the new talents and his new tank build which was interesting... Little White Mouse's summary is good. It's really only the German 105's and the Japanese 100's that warrant the IFHE consideration on the small guns... then it's a question of actual utility for the boat you're playing. If there are very few guns and accuracy is poor, then you'll want to optimize for something else on that boat. Good luck, have fun! 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevermore135 Posted November 18, 2023 Share Posted November 18, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Tricericon said: If I am building dedicated captains below Schlieffen herself, at which tier should I switch from an incendiary secondaries build (or a tank build?) to the IFHE approach? Or is IFHE worth it all the way through? For tier V+ my reccomendations would be: V Derfflinger - Run a tank build. The combination of German BB secondary dispersion (not Massachusetts/German CV/German CC dispersion like later ships) and so much of your DPM being bound to 88mm guns with only 15mm of penetration (18mm with IFHE) means a secondary build really isn't worth it. VI Mackenssen - Also run a tank build. Mackenssen is the first ship of the line to get the charactertic boosted secondary dispersion mentioned above, but her secondary suite is composed of the same 88 and 150mm guns as her predecessor. While the guns are more accurate, the low penetration of the 88mm guns is even more pronounced a tier higher. VII Prinz Heinrich - This is where, IMO, a secondary build becomes viable. The A hull has 88/150mm guns, but the B hull upgrade converts the smaller guns to the ubiquitous German dual-purpose 105mm mounts, which have 26mm of penetration. Of course, lack of access to the fifth upgrade slot (and CSM1) means that even with PH's decent concealment there is still an uncomfortable gap between her max secondary range and minimum concealment that can make getting into secondary range problematic in higher tier matches. If you do decide to run a secondary build, I personally reccomend passing on IFHE. Her base secondaries pen everything in tier VII matches where she is top tier, but the hull's other characteristics mean the return on the secondary spec in uptiered matches (where IFHE is useful) is less than the rest of the ships in the line. IMO, in this environment those two points can be better spent elsewhere. Tier VIII-X is where the full secondary spec really shines. Each of the ships has a very small gap between their miniumum surface detection and maximum secondary range (0.5-0.1km) and you will get good use of 32mm penetration in every match you find yourself in. Run IFHE. Edited November 18, 2023 by Nevermore135 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzurArmy Posted November 21, 2023 Share Posted November 21, 2023 On 11/3/2023 at 9:13 AM, Crokodone said: How many battles? As of right now, 174 battles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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