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New IJN battle cruiser line seems pretty mediocre


Subtle_Octavian

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7 minutes ago, Subtle_Octavian said:

It feels like "more stuff" for the random bundles and not very well thought out or fleshed out.

The T10 has nice guns but not much more.

Content churn for the gacha system.

Whenever a new line gets introduced I usually look at the regular streamers and CCs to have a good idea if its worth my time or not and in this case they all pretty much said it was crap. Like a new mediocre Zao line ... and Zao pretty much being the least played T10 cruiser these days.

Its just crap for the masses to grind and spend money on grinding. Im Waaaay more selective these days. For example im grinding the new European DD line for the Gdansk which everybody seem to put in S-Tiers with radar and smoke. Havent ginded the Italian DD line either, but cruiser line is awesome!

Pick and choose .... but pick well .... half is duds  

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21 minutes ago, Subtle_Octavian said:

It feels like "more stuff" for the random bundles and not very well thought out or fleshed out.

The T10 has nice guns but not much more.

Content churn for the gacha system.

I don't care.
I have more IJN compatible Commanders than I have ships for them.
So, as far as I am concerned, more ships are most welcome.  🙂 

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I’m not really a big fan of Yumihari. It’s okay, but I think you feel the gun and AP performance issues on it more than the others. Adatara’s okay, but nothing super special IMO (but much better than Tsurugi).

Bungo’s a little odd. In theory the low AP pen and damage should be more noticeable on it than the lower tiers, but I never noticed as much of an issue. And once I got used to the “Deadeye on Demand” spotter plane, it really started slapping things. Sit at mid range, poke things, and when you see someone mess up, use the spotter and remind them why it was a bad idea to turn when they did.

It’s still lower on my grind priority list, for a couple reasons. But it’s not a bad ship, and even Adatara isn’t bad either. Yumihari’s a bit underwhelming once you know what the rest of the line is like, but it can still poke cruisers. 

Edited by MidnightPhoenix07
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13 hours ago, Subtle_Octavian said:

It feels like "more stuff" for the random bundles and not very well thought out or fleshed out.

The T10 has nice guns but not much more.

Content churn for the gacha system.

Honestly when I saw the amount of grind they expected us to put in to get anything in that bundle chain I just went nope, my decisison was backed up when I saw the ship stats, Bungo is the only one wirth a try and well I am not giving out 300€ to get her in EA

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12 hours ago, Wolfswetpaws said:

I don't care.
I have more IJN compatible Commanders than I have ships for them.
So, as far as I am concerned, more ships are most welcome.  🙂 

My reaction watching the video on the main site was; "Six guns? Seriously?

Some might say; "But; mah Georgia!"

I don't much like Georgia either. I hardly play it because I consider the guns too inconsistent to be useful.

As far as too many captains; I have the same issue.

I might get around to bothering with these new ships, if I have nothing else to grind.

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26 minutes ago, Estimated_Prophet said:

My reaction watching the video on the main site was; "Six guns? Seriously?


Only premium one has six guns, regular ships have either 8 (t8 & t9) or 10 guns (t10).

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19 hours ago, Yedwy said:

Honestly when I saw the amount of grind they expected us to put in to get anything in that bundle chain

I picked up the perma econ bonus for the Yumihari and the fluff that I had to go through to get it, finished the collection for the permacamo this afternoon, and consider myself content with that.

Currently regrinding the Nagato with over 110K currently on her, and will unlock and buy Yumihari when she is released.

19 hours ago, Yedwy said:

Bungo is the only one wirth a try and well I am not giving out 300€ to get her in EA

Hell no. Save that stuff for if you are a monetized streamer who wants the content for their channel ASAP, and can pay for it with stream earnings and write the cost off against their taxes. 

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Potato Quality got them to work for him, but it took a while for him to find the way to get the best out of them.

The AP isn't good at longer ranges, so PQ found that using HE over 14-15km and AP on broadside Battleships & Cruisers at about 14km & under.

It's counterintuitive to be firing HE from Japanese BB guns, but it seems to work.

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19 minutes ago, Grantwhy said:

Potato Quality got them to work for him, but it took a while for him to find the way to get the best out of them.

The AP isn't good at longer ranges, so PQ found that using HE over 14-15km and AP on broadside Battleships & Cruisers at about 14km & under.

It's counterintuitive to be firing HE from Japanese BB guns, but it seems to work.

Yet, it is discovered as early as the test ships were datamined that other than Yumihari, BOTH types of shells are defective for Adatara, Bungo and Tsuguri.

AP penetration is intentionally tweaked for the worse, and HE parameters borrows those of Yamato (that's say, with very high drag coefficient for such modern guns).

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1 hour ago, Project45_Opytny said:

Yet, it is discovered as early as the test ships were datamined that other than Yumihari, BOTH types of shells are defective for Adatara, Bungo and Tsuguri.

AP penetration is intentionally tweaked for the worse, and HE parameters borrows those of Yamato (that's say, with very high drag coefficient for such modern guns).

So another line that is so gimped to be dead on arrival and is solely released for early access purposes... 🤐

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3 hours ago, Grantwhy said:

It's counterintuitive to be firing HE from Japanese BB guns, but it seems to work.

Small and thin-skinned targets are more likely to take consistent & reliable damage from H.E. projectiles.

I don't load AP until I can anticipate a good opportunity to use it.  🙂 

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3 hours ago, Project45_Opytny said:

Yet, it is discovered as early as the test ships were datamined that other than Yumihari, BOTH types of shells are defective for Adatara, Bungo and Tsuguri.

AP penetration is intentionally tweaked for the worse, and HE parameters borrows those of Yamato (that's say, with very high drag coefficient for such modern guns).

I was just looking at the WOWs wiki pages for the new IJN Battleship line-split.

Curiously, the HE projectiles have a lower muzzle-velocity when compared to the AP projectiles.

If this were *reality*, then that would indicate the HE projectiles were heavier or were being fired with reduced amounts of gunpowder propellant.

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On 10/27/2023 at 10:53 PM, Yedwy said:

Honestly when I saw the amount of grind they expected us to put in to get anything in that bundle chain I just went nope, my decision was backed up when I saw the ship stats, Bungo is the only one wirth a try and well I am not giving out 300€ to get her in EA

   I normally feel like getting the 1st ship in early access is possible without spending on bundles.  But 4500 Japanese tokens seems to be a lot this time around- I'm not even half way there yet.

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8 hours ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

This line is so sad, if you want alternatives that are just better grind Vincent or Yamato.

You may be correct but I am  a collector. I grind all lines and St Vincent and yamato has been regrinded 5-6 times already.

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1 hour ago, BOBTHEBALL said:

Damn I I respect the hustle. I couldn't imagine re-grinding BB lines.

Grinding the Izumo once was enough.  🙂
 

Quote

From:  Kaigun Chūjo Azuma (the 2nd.), aboard the good ship Izumo

To:  Alpha of the Port, Wolfswetpaws and the Adjutant of the Port, Fubuki Shirakami (the 1st.)

Subject:  The "Great Harmony" is unlocked

Alpha-sama,
Adjutant-sama,

Through torps served cold, and volleys unnumbered
My crew and I sailed the Izumo into adversity
To free the kami that sleeps 'neath the ocean
Our ship sustained her course
though the perils were great
"Redi, tachiagari !!!"

In service of the Port!

~The Izumo and her crew


 

  Hide contents

Inspiration for the verses above was drawn from the movie Labyrinth
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091369/quotes/

Specifically, lines spoken by the character named Sarah 
The version below was edited for brevity.  The full quote can be found at the link, above.
 

Sarah: Through dangers untold. And hardships unnumbered. I have fought my way here to the castle; beyond the goblin city, to take back the child that you have stolen. My will is as strong as yours, and my kingdom as great...

Sarah: My kingdom as great... my kingdom as great... damn, I can never remember that line.

Sarah: You have no power over me!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the process of crafting a version to depict the slog that the Izumo and her crew have endured, in order to research the tech-tree Yamato, I admit my knowledge of Japanese is very imperfect.
I relied upon online translation websites and possibly took too much poetic license.
Anyway, the line "Redi, tachiagari !!!" is intended to translate as "Lady, rise !!!".
With the Lady in question being the spirit, or kami, of the Yamato.

A figurative nod of appreciation for @DrQlock's work, on his own "Iron & Blood" web comic series, is also intended.
https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/153764-web-comic-series-iron-blood/

For the curious, I played Izumo in many battles, often random battles.
While numerous signal-flags were consumed during the 'quest' to research the Yamato, no Free-XP was utilized.
That was a personal criteria I was often tempted to compromise, but refrained from doing so. 
Therefore, I derive personal satisfaction from the achievement, however commonplace it may be among my fellow players.

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/221037-if-our-commanders-could-talk/?do=findComment&comment=5364453
This ^^^ link will be dead in a couple of days.  But, if you act soon, you can see the screen-shots I enclosed with the post.  🙂 

@DrQlock has a website that is still up & running, though.  And I suggest everyone peruse his works.
https://www.wicked-comix.com/

 

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As far as ship go, there is still nothing that will top Vincent in its current state, both have worse extremity than traditional T8+ BB but one has a way better gun layout, nuke torp and one of the dumbest armour design ever devised

Bungo HE is actually quite good, especially with the spotter plane, and the AP is middling but perform just as you would expect against cruiser, it pretty unfair as usual

Issue is this is the 3rd BB/BC line released that is designed to obliterate cruiser by design, going off the back of Schlieffen and Vincent

Biggest issue vs something like Vincent is ofc it has the weakness of normal fuse AP with the disadvantage of shit pen for a 457 gun (around 80mm worse pen than Izumo at all ranges for references), so while it theoretically cit Yamato around 14.5km, you will find your AP incredibly inconsistent at citting or cheeking BB like Kremlin/Yamato at ranges you expect other BB to cit

Bungo is not a bad ship, but if you solely play for performance, then Vincent is better, for the fun factor Vincent is probably still better, you just play around with the funny spotter plane for a while but thats about it

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On 10/29/2023 at 7:59 PM, Yedwy said:

So another line that is so gimped to be dead on arrival and is solely released for early access purposes... 🤐

At least this line is playable, unlike the IJN CL line. This whole line is designed around a gimmick just like many other ships introduced by WG these days. The special spotter plane seems to be helpful but only server data can tell us how it is.

My thoughts on it:

1. Despite being called battlecruiser, the maneuverability is in fact pretty average (still better than yamato ofc) when compared with other battleships, and many of them got better armor than IJN BC. Adding some speed (to 32-33 kts) or having speed boost would be favorable.

2. HE shells are the same as the original IJN BB, hard to use when target is over 16 km. Give this line more usable HE shells (like iwami's) and encourage shell switching can further differ this line from the OG one.

3. The new line's game concept is also focused on long range sniping (the 25/32 mm plating everywhere further limits the close range capabilities), from this perspective, the two line's play style is largely the same.

And here's KO strike from Yamato: REPUTATION.

UK BC line is much more attractive than this.

 

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9 minutes ago, New_Jersey_prpr said:

At least this line is playable, unlike the IJN CL line. This whole line is designed around a gimmick just like many other ships introduced by WG these days. The special spotter plane seems to be helpful but only server data can tell us how it is.

My thoughts on it:

1. Despite being called battlecruiser, the maneuverability is in fact pretty average (still better than yamato ofc) when compared with other battleships, and many of them got better armor than IJN BC. Adding some speed (to 32-33 kts) or having speed boost would be favorable.

2. HE shells are the same as the original IJN BB, hard to use when target is over 16 km. Give this line more usable HE shells (like iwami's) and encourage shell switching can further differ this line from the OG one.

3. The new line's game concept is also focused on long range sniping (the 25/32 mm plating everywhere further limits the close range capabilities), from this perspective, the two line's play style is largely the same.

And here's KO strike from Yamato: REPUTATION.

UK BC line is much more attractive than this.

I agree that this branch, at least Tier 8 (though all should be so) should be faster than her veteran counterpart.

Amagi-class is evolved from Project B-62 by reducing some propulsion in favor of one more main gun turret, yet they now shares the same 30-kts speed.

Yumihari uses the same HE ballistics as Hizen/Iwami, a sort of consolation prize for a disappointing branch.

And even only a pro forma change of claiming the Tiers 9 and 10 ships are armed with 450-mm main guns (that do appeared once on archived Japanese interwar sketches) would make them much better in terms of impression, even taking the claim of "preserving the defining perk of Yamato" into consideration.

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2 hours ago, Project45_Opytny said:

I agree that this branch, at least Tier 8 (though all should be so) should be faster than her veteran counterpart.

Amagi-class is evolved from Project B-62 by reducing some propulsion in favor of one more main gun turret, yet they now shares the same 30-kts speed.

Yumihari uses the same HE ballistics as Hizen/Iwami, a sort of consolation prize for a disappointing branch.

And even only a pro forma change of claiming the Tiers 9 and 10 ships are armed with 450-mm main guns (that do appeared once on archived Japanese interwar sketches) would make them much better in terms of impression, even taking the claim of "preserving the defining perk of Yamato" into consideration.

I’ve never really understood why WG selected Amagi over Tosa in the original Japanese BB line, and IMO this line release really shines a light on how much of a mistake that was. A battlecruiser Amagi would have fit right in at tier VIII (and been faster than Tosa) and Yumihari without the spotter gimmick would have made a good tier VII alongside Nagato.

Edited by Nevermore135
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